Which on would you recommend Yale AFROTC or USAFA

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by mbleykhman, Apr 1, 2015.

  1. mbleykhman

    mbleykhman Member

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    With long term goal to attend Medical school my daughter now needs to make a decision what to do. She just got admitted to Yale with the AFROTC scholarship, and also admitted to USAFA. I am lost and I think she is as well. I know both are top notch institutions, but if she wants to become a doctor, which rout would you recommend? If some one has experience with the topic, please PM me.
     
  2. Juvat

    Juvat Member

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    If she is absolutely committed to medical school then I would have to question whether USAFA or AFROTC (regardless of the school) is the right choice for her. USAFA will have VERY FEW opportunities for grads to go on to medical school. What if she is not offered that opportunity? She will still owe the USAF a minimum of 5 years of service in a field that she may or may not be happy with, thus putting her medical school aspirations on hold. Is she prepared for the possibility of 5 years in a missile silo? I can only assume that AFROTC offers the same limited opportunities for med school. While I do not have the "personal experience" that you seek here, I'm confident in recommending another route if medical school is her dream. Best of luck to her.
     
  3. BEATNVY

    BEATNVY New Member

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    I am an Army doc who went straight to med school (HPSP) from USMA. The academies allow up to 2% of grads to go straight to med school. You have to get approved by the academy to apply, get into med school, and get an HPSP scholarship. If she is good enough to get into Yale, she is good enough to make that cut at USAFA. At Yale, she will have more/better exposure to premed stuff and actual medical exposure, if she so desires. AFROTC also allows a small percentage of grads to go straight to med school as well. I know plenty of guys who decided to do an initial assignment in a traditional officer slot (infantry, pilot, etc). who went to med school after 2, 3, or more years. They just roll any remaining obligation up into your time when you come out of med school. So I came out of med school owing 9 years.
    Being absolutely committed to med school should NOT deter her from seeking a AFROTC or USAFA slot.
     
  4. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    AFROTC has an ED, but I believe it is different than USAFA. AFROTC/USAFA cadets can correct me, but I believe for AFROTC cadets part of the ED process is two prong.
    ~ Applying for an ED slot
    ~~ Part of that is ...
    ~ Applying for Med schools.

    I don't know about USAFA, but it is also a two prong regarding not only paying for schooling, but if you are considered ADAF.
    ~ She can be offered ED, but seen as a Reservist, not ADAF. What that means to her is they allow her to delay AD until she graduates, but will not pay her an O1 salary during those years, and during the summer she will do her required 2 weeks, etc.
    ~~ USAFA grads will be paid to attend Med school.
    ~ She can be picked up for ED like USAFA grads and they will pay her educational costs and pay as an O1. Her job is to attend college.

    I would dig deeper on the AFROTC site.

    My opinion is and will always be that a 17/18 year old has dreams of a career. However, when they attend an SA or a college the dream may change. I have 3 kids. Only one did not change their major once in college(our AFROTC scholarship child...he was nontech).

    JMPO, and with $2.07 you can a small Starbucks coffee. I would say that if she is willing to live through BCT, sleep on top of her bed for 9 months, than I would say go USAFA.
    ~ I say that because USAFA is known as The Little Engineering School in the Rockies. They are STEM oriented. They might not have the Pre Med classes like Yale, but they are the tops when it comes to schools regarding things like Chemistry. She may decide she wants to be a Bio Chemist.
    ~~ No HS kid knows what Organic Chemistry will be like in college, but yet, that will be a part of their academic career.
    ~ I would pm hornetguy, Christcorp, Eagle. They have intimate knowledge on how the ED works at USAFA.

    As far as the you owe 5 years and AFROTC grads owe 4, it is total BS if that is factor.
    ~ USAFA grad clock starts the minute they commission. AFROTC starts the minute they show up at their first assignment. It could take 6-9 months before they arrive. Hence, might as well be 5 years.

    This is a hard decision. My DS has no regrets going AFROTC scholarship over USAFA, but he knew in his heart that if he went USAFA it wasn't because he wanted to attend USAFA, it was an illusion of being a USAFA grad. That is not the reason to go! Just like a Yale degree is not a reason. If she wants the "ALL IN" experience than go USAFA. If she wants to be an 18 year old and date a 20 year old, no timed get your hair up, be a girly girl, than maybe AFROTC is a better bet.

    Finally, as an AFROTC parent I will add this. If she goes to Yale and next year she decides that she made a mistake by not going USAFA, she will have the ability to gat an ROTC nomination on top of her MOCs. She will be competitive, but if she leaves USAFA, then she will have to reapply to Yale and for the ICSP AFROTC scholarship.
    ~ Can you afford for her to attend Yale without the scholarship?

    As you can see I am an advocate for both paths. Only you know your child. Only you know if she is one of the 20% that don't commission via USAFA (5% that leave during BCT) if you can afford for her to attend Yale without the AFROTC scholarship
    ~ On I day the AFROTC scholarship is revoked. Medically turned back July 23rd, paid the deposit to Yale as back up, she won't have the AFROTC scholarship.

    There are risks on both sides of the argument. I get you want input, but honestly, if my DS went to USAFA I believe he would have commissioned, but I don't know if he would have been happy. He didn't want to be a doc. Hating where you attend, feeling trapped, usually = lower GPAs. Lower GPA for her out of USAFA could mean no ED option.

    Talk to her. Ignore us.
     
  5. NavyHoops

    NavyHoops Moderator

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    Great advice from many on here. There are tons of threads regarding SA and ROTC to medical school for all services. Each service has its own differences, but reading those threads can help you gain some knowledge on pros and cons to each path. Bottom line is, getting a Med School billet is very hard, but its possible. I know this cause I knew all 11 of my classmates who went that path from USNA. I know many who served in other areas, then went to med school also. BEATANVY on here is a great example of having that goal and achieving it. My lead engineer has a daughter who graduated from USAFA and went directly to Med School. She attended USUHS and was actually a classmate of my best friend's husband who was a West Point grad. He actually was a Ranger and was out of the Army for several years before applying. As you can see there are many paths to get there. Each SA pretty much has the same type of program with small variances for those interested in going this path. Its a small group, but its possible. I am less familiar with AFROTC path, but I think there are probably more "what ifs' or "dependencies". The first is being selected for field training. She doesn't make that cut, then she is dropped from the program. The second is if she is selected for ED. As mentioned if she is not selected for FT, can you cover the costs of her final 2 years at Yale? Also, what other costs with the scholarship are not covered? USAFA its pretty much all covered. The other part is in AFROTC someone is committed after their first year. So if she decides, I am 100% going medical and don't want to chance it, during her sophomore there is a pay back. At USAFA she can leave at anytime up to the start of her junior year with no pay back. As you can see there are pros and cons to both. I think she decides what environment is best for her to thrive in. They are very different schools. In order to get where she wants, she needs to be where her heart is. Some thrive under the 24/7 military environment. Others do not. She will do best where she is most comfortable. Also, if she does not get med school, ED or decides maybe that isn't the right path can she live with serving in the USAFA for 4-5 years. She needs to be comfortable with that idea also.
     
  6. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    A correction NavyHoops

    It is EA, not ED. EA aka SFT occurs their sophomore year. I don't know of any cadet that met the board as a scholarship recipient required to pay back the cost of education.
    ~ Honesty now, statistically the chance for EA in the past few years were....if memory serves me..93%, 63% and 83% this uyear.
    ~~ I would think Yale cadets probably had close to 100%
    ~~~~ OPs DD needs to ask the AFROTC unit what was their selection rate, cgpa, AFOQT, and PFT.

    If she decided to become an AS200, selected for EA/SFT and decided not to attend, she would owe it baçk.

    I agree with everything elwe , especially the environment.

    Heck, let's be real. Yale is not the most friendliest of campuses for ROTC cadets. She will wear the uniform on campus during LLAB days.
    Her dorm mates might not get how she is angered at noises within the dorm at 11 because she has to be up at 5 for PT.
    USAFA or SMCs do!

    Yale is great as an AFROTC cadet. She can enjoy college life. The question is can you afford the last two years if she is not elected for AFT? Do you want to have that weight?
     
  7. lrv61

    lrv61 Parent

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    My son is an AFROTC cadet commissioning in May who will be starting medical school in August.

    From an AFROTC perspective, he competed for a pre-health EA just before the start of his senior year (I believe he met the board in August). He was awarded a pre-health EA (he indicated that 12 AFROTC cadets received this EA) which meant he would receive a 4-yr AFHPSP scholarship to attend a civilian school on IRR status or attend USUHS on AD. Of course he still needed to gain acceptance to either USUHS or a civilian school.

    If you are not awarded the pre-health EA my understanding is that you can still compete for an AFHPSP 2, 3 or 4-yr scholarship and minus a scholarship, your last option is to request an education delay (ED). This of course is all based on the needs of the AF.

    With AFHPSP the payback is one year for every year of scholarship…so a four year scholarship requires 4 years AD. With USUHS, since you are on AD earning an O-1 salary while in med school, payback is seven years. In my son’s case, his ROTC commitment gets added on (why some recommend not pursing med school via ROTC or a service academy??).

    Being the only cadet at his DET pursuing medical school, he needed to be proactive with respect to the process, researching the appropriate AF instructions and knowing all the deadlines. With that info in hand his cadre were extremely supportive and helpful to him. Again this all fell into place as he started his senior year. After field training, during his junior year, he needed to select his AFSCs, none of which had the slightest relationship to medicine... he was prepared to serve in that capacity if that is what came to be.

    Not sure this helps answer the Yale-USAFA question…I believe your daughter will need to determine that, but seems like she can’t make a bad decision…congrats and good luck to you and your daughter.
     
  8. mbleykhman

    mbleykhman Member

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    Thank you all very much!
     
  9. EDelahanty

    EDelahanty Member

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    Congratulations to you and especially your daughter for getting herself into a position where she has two excellent but quite distinct choices.

    Speaking objectively, if after weighing the above advice she still needs a tiebreaker, why not go for the place with the best pizza?
     
  10. MSFaygo

    MSFaygo Member

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    Has she been able to tour either campus? Many times that experience is all it takes. It was for me personally, and DS walked away with his mind made up, too.
     
  11. NavyHoops

    NavyHoops Moderator

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    irv61, does your DS have a preference to attend USUHS over a civilian medical school? I have had a ton of friends take this route (and the civilian route also) and must say it is a great deal. Not sure there is a better deal out there in terms of money. He was an O-1, but paid as an O-3 (he was a Ranger before) for pay and BAH. Not many people who can buy a house while in Med School and graduate without a penny of school debt!

    And I agree with MSFaygo on this one. I toured Princeton and hated it. I then went to Navy and knew I was at home. If its feasible, I think tours can really help, especially since she has been accepted to both. Its not a "if I get accepted can I see myself here" its a question of "I got in, is this right?"
     
  12. lrv61

    lrv61 Parent

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    Ask me in a week...I have offered my fatherly advice and have taken a step back. I believe he will be making his decision on Easter Sunday :angel:
     
  13. NavyHoops

    NavyHoops Moderator

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    Good luck to him!
     
  14. mbleykhman

    mbleykhman Member

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    We visited both Yale and USAFA and she loved them both... Now we will go to admitted candidate days on April 20-22. So hopefully she will make her up her mind at that time.
     
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  15. MedB

    MedB Parent

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    There are worse ways to decide. :)

    On a serious note.... Maybe it's why you mentioned it, but New Haven is actually quite famous in pizza history. They have a unique thin-crust style of pizza cooked in coal-fired brick ovens that originated back in the early 1900's. And they are the home of the white clam pie!

    So, as amazing as USAFA is, there is simply no contest at all between the run of the mill pizza in Arnold Hall, and Pepe's and other pizza joints in around New Haven! :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2015
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  16. Falcon A

    Falcon A Member

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    OMG --comparing Arnold Hall pizza vs restaurants in and around New Haven????? UNFAIR!!!:yikes:

    Now. . . Leon Gessi's for pizza and other restaurants in Colorado Springs -- now your choice just got hard again. ;)
     
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  17. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    If you ask me, there's not much question. Go to Yale. She's going to find a lot more to love there, and though I hate to admit it, a Yale degree has more cachet than any of the SAs.

    (For the record, I went to USMA. My sister and spouse went to Yale).

    Nope, it isn't. That would be the Colorado School of Mines, if anything.
     
  18. fencersmother

    fencersmother Founding Member

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    Scout! Everyone KNOWS "Little Engineering College in the Rockies" in the AF world is USAFA. It's been called that for decades. DECADES.

    It's like calling Yale that "Little LAC in New Haven."

    It's tongue in cheek.
     
  19. fencersmother

    fencersmother Founding Member

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    Go to USAFA.
     
  20. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Please expound on how there is a much higher cachet.

    You do know that AFROTC cadets on scholarship will be blind for the SFT/EA board?

    That is an insanely huge risk. I would say go USAFA.
     

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