Which state for nominations

Discussion in 'Nominations' started by Ishibashi, May 5, 2015.

  1. Ishibashi

    Ishibashi Member

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    I apologize if this question has been answered before; I did a search but was unable to find the answer.

    I currently work for the U.S. Government in Gabon, Africa. Because there are no adequate High Schools here, my daughter is attending boarding school in Chattanooga, TN.

    Myself and my wife are residents of Pennsylvania, and we have paid taxes there for the last 10 years.

    My initial thought is that we would use PA Senators and MOC, but when I look at some of the information on the various SA websites it is unclear as to whether I can do that since my daughter is technically a resident of TN (her Drivers License is from there, all of her mail goes to her there).

    I am a retired military officer so we have access to a Presidential nomination, but am hoping to get a clear answer on the residency issue.

    Thank you in advance for any help.
     
  2. Swabthedecks

    Swabthedecks Member

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    If I had to do the nomination process over again I would only use the Presidential- it is by far the easiest path. All you need is one nomination and the Pres does that for you. The others have essays, Letters of Recs, interviews etc. Go with the Presidential. KISS
     
  3. Sledge

    Sledge Member

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    Being eligible for a Presidential Nomination and relying on that alone as your source of a nomination is not a sound plan. By law, only 400 cadets may attend either USMA, USNA, or USAFA at one time with the Presidential nomination. That averages out to 100 in each class. Approximately 800 applicants each year are eligible for the nomination. So...your chances are 1 in 8, and you are competing nationally for those nomination slots.

    Whereas, if you were in a less competitive congressional district, your competition could be lower and/or your odds better.

    You should apply for all nominations for which you are eligible. Period. It maximizes the odds.

    Going the "easiest path" only is not a good way to look at things, especially when embarking on the service academy/military profession adventure.

    As to OP's original question, I would suggest contacting the Service Academy Coordinators for both the MOC's in PA and TN. Explain the situation. See what they say.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2015
  4. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I would say that since she is a minor she is a legal resident of PA. It would be like a student attending college. Even though they live at college for 9 months out of the year, that does not make it their home of residence.

    I also agree with sledge, it is unadvisable to only apply for a Presidential. That would mean you have only 1 shot before hitting the national pool, whereas, applying for the MoCs than you could be on 3 more slates, and a total of 4 slates before going to the pool.
     
  5. Swabthedecks

    Swabthedecks Member

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    Of course I agree with you however in ultra competitive area (Northern Va and others) you are only going to show up on one slate so take the path of certainty and least resistance. BTW the 1 in 8 chance describe a random selection not a rank order selection.
     
  6. usna1985

    usna1985 USNA Alumnus

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    Unless your child is an emancipated minor, her state/district of legal residence is that of her parent(s). So it would be PA. Only if two spouses who share legal custody have separate states/districts of residence could a candidate "choose."

    If you have any questions, there is someone in USNA Admissions who focuses on noms; you should check with that individual.
     
  7. Ishibashi

    Ishibashi Member

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    Thank you for all the help.

    She is definitely not an emancipated minor (although I'm sure she probably feels like one being so far away).

    I appreciate all the responses.
     
  8. mom3boys

    mom3boys Parent

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    @Swabthedecks: that is terrible advice! Never put all your eggs in one basket! Yes, it only takes one nomination, but there are only 100 presidentials...and if your kiddo isn't the top 100, you better have a back up nom! Your kid could win a district, but not be top 100.
    @Ishibashi, I am not sure, but if your daughter registered to vote in TN (if she's 18) could she seek a nomination there? It would certainly make the interviews easier.
     
  9. Swabthedecks

    Swabthedecks Member

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    See my other response and, having done this for years, it is not so terrible rather it is very realistic.
     
  10. Swabthedecks

    Swabthedecks Member

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    Actually that brings to question another point, which is don't the academy admissions appoint the MOC selection first and then go to the Presidential and then to the NWL?
     
  11. mom3boys

    mom3boys Parent

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    We're going to have to agree to disagree here.
     
  12. usna1985

    usna1985 USNA Alumnus

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    Having done this for years as well, I respectfully disagree. A Presidential can be enough -- had a candidate with "only" a Pres nom (though applied for others) receive an appointment this year. However, a few years ago, I had a terrific candidate w/a Pres not apply for MOC noms. She was turned down. When I asked USNA Admissions why, one of the reasons they gave was that she only had only applied for (and thus only received) a Pres nom.

    The ONLY downside to applying for an MOC nom when you already have a Pres is your time. If USNA isn't worth a few hours of your time, I've really got to question your commitment. And, apparently, so does USNA.
     
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  13. ca2midwestmom

    ca2midwestmom Member

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    Look at the thread of Class of 2019 Appointments and you'll see many appointments with Presidential nominations were given as early as October -- some MOC have not even held interviews by then.

    http://www.serviceacademyforums.com/index.php?threads/class-of-2019-appointment-thread.40698/
     
  14. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I am with mom3boys. I am also with sledge and usna1985 regarding his comment that if it is too much work/hassle to apply to your MoCs than maybe this path is not the one you want to walk down. I say that because many packets need to be submitted in the month of September, thus while you are off from school during the summer, you can pump out those essays.

    I am not trying to pile on, and sure VA is competitive, but here is a bigger question while you give out that advice....what do you think the ALO/BGO/FFR going to think when you tell that as why you are only going for a Presidential.
     
  15. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I agree. I have seen that year after year. Candidates with a Presidential can meet boards starting in October. If you look over the nomination threads you will see meany candidates don't hear from their MoCs until the drop date of Jan. 31. Yet, Presidentials were being awarded for 3+ months.

    Thus, your theory is in fact misinformed.
     
  16. Swabthedecks

    Swabthedecks Member

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    How did USNA know that she had not applied for MOC nom? And don't think that the USNA wont reason away a nom cause they will. Case in point- Northern VA gives one nom for the most part. My son did not get a USNA appointment and their reason- cause he didn't get a MOC nom. I did not make that up it came from the LCDR at USNA. When I talked to the Senators office from VA they were angry at the academy and I believe they made a call to inform them that kids with Pres noms don't get a MOC nom so as to spread the wealth and this was nothing new. Whether or not one agrees, if you are competitive nationally then a Pres is all you need. I understand that if you are from a less competitive district go for the MOC. I am fine with letting the academies have the final say but please don't exclude folks that don't get MOC noms. They are searching for fault where non exists.
     
  17. usna1985

    usna1985 USNA Alumnus

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    Because I told them. I always ask and encourage candidates to apply for all noms for which they're eligible. Saying, "I don't need to apply for MOC noms [because I'm such a competitive candidate and already have a Pres nom]" isn't going to go over well.

    As noted, I fully agree that a Pres may be enough. And, USNA typically knows those MOCs who won't give a nom to someone who already has one from any source. (As an aside, lots of MOCs say this but, in reality, they actually do duplicate noms, even in areas like NoVA.) But in this hyper-competitive admissions environment, I see no downside to giving yourself every chance possible.

    The question a candidate has to ask is, "Did I do everything I could to make myself a successful candidate?" One of those things is applying for every nom possible. If you do -- and still end up with a Pres -- so be it. It may well be enough. But if you get the TWE, do you always want to be wondering, "What if? What if I'd spent another few hours of my time applying for those MOC noms? Would that have made a difference?"

    You're right that, in most cases, it probably wouldn't have. But I at least would always wonder . . .
     
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  18. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I agree usna1985

    Think about it this way swabthedecks.

    There will be posters that might take your advice and not apply for the MoCs, how will you feel when they have to live with what ifs for following your guidance...wondering what if they had applied for all of the MoCs.
    ~ The common thought process is to apply to all nomination sources, so the candidates don't live the what if?

    I live in No VA, so I do understand the spread the wealth aspect. There are many MoCs that give principals, and usually to 2nd timers because of the competition. Our DS (now an O2) had a Presidential, at the time we lived in NC, where they don't talk, but had our DS not applied for the MoCs for any reason, his Dad (Bullet) would have had a very long heart to heart about how this was not something we as parents would support in any manner.
    ~ I think most military parents would feel the same. Presidential is not what you call a competitive nomination. That is not to be confused with a competitive slate, which it is. It is not a competitive nomination because as long as the folks meet the requirements you will get the nomination.

    One last thing, ALOs for USAFA have a voice in the WCS. They submit their own paperwork. In the end from the NWL, there is going to be one person that gets the appointment, and one that doesn't because they have X number that they can appoint. Who knows, maybe it was that small % that the ALOs rec. account for on the WCS that made the difference. Maybe they ranked the other candidates higher just because they didn't think it was a hassle or worth the time to put it all out there and apply to every nominations.

    WCS has a lot of portions, and everything matters. Don't leave anything on the table. IMPO, not applying for all of the MoCs tells the ALO/BGOs/FFR that you are leaving stuff on the table.

    My only caveat would be, if you have the Presidential nomination opportunity AND an LOA, than that is when it is perfectly fine to not apply for MoCs, because you fulfilled the nomination requirement.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2015
  19. Swabthedecks

    Swabthedecks Member

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    Of course you are both correct but as I stated the more competitive the district the more to rely on the Pres nom. Input from the B&G on whether or not one applies for the MOC is hardly a strong position for the TWE. If candidate motivation is in question look no further than one academic presentation, ECAs, and CFA results. The WCS should be have an objective focal point not his hair was a little off or his pencil wasn't sharp enough. The issue regarding leaving something on the table tells me there is a disconnect in how the ALOs etc understand the MOCS process with regard to sharing candidate info. Don't make the candidates feel bad not applying for a MOC nom when it takes but one nom. Having said that if one lived in Wyoming one should apply to all sources, if I lived in San Diego or NoVa then it would not seem to matter if you had a Pres locked up. At this point I defer to your understanding of what the academies ask of you re: B&G evaluations.
     
  20. ca2midwestmom

    ca2midwestmom Member

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    My logic would tell me if there is less competition (Wyoming), you could (in theory) apply to fewer nom sources; if there is more competition (SD/NoVA), you should apply to more/all nom sources. Am I off or does this make sense to anyone else?
     

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