"whole person" concept

Discussion in 'Naval Academy - USNA' started by Born-To-Fly_024, Apr 17, 2010.

  1. Born-To-Fly_024

    Born-To-Fly_024 Member

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    I'm not amazing at academics. I am taking mostly honor level classes, however I got a 79 last year for Honors Algebra 2 for a final grade. And this year I might get a C+ in honors precal. Overall, I'm mainly a B student in honors level classes. I'm not in NHS, but I am in the top 20% of the class.


    My question is, since the Naval Academy looks at your "whole person" qualities, If I have a lot to offer for leadership (Eagle scout, class officer, team captain), and for sports (varsity swimming, JV baseball), will academics alone keep me from getting an appointment?
     
  2. NorthernCalMother

    NorthernCalMother Member

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    Born-to-Fly, I sent you a PM.
     
  3. 1964BGO

    1964BGO Member

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    Regardless of whether you are recruited as an athlete, these are academic scholarships! When all is said and done, the SA's are looking for young men and women who have the potential to graduate from a very rigorous academic program featuring 18 to 22 semester hours for eight semesters. You need to be paying more attention to your academic performance and get your grades up - you can finesse only so much in the classroom and be a viable candidate.
     
  4. ValleyForge321

    ValleyForge321 Member

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    Well, When the Academic Dean came to our school to recruit JROTC kids for NAPS he looked at our grades and SAT scores. As long as your Grades and Scores are decent then you stand a chance. And dont listen to some of these people, I've known recruited athletes that didnt even need to send in applications for there nominations, so they are special in a sense. Make sure your SAT scores are good.
     
  5. aglages

    aglages Parent

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    What GPA are you considering decent?
    What SAT scores are you considering good?
     
  6. MJOmom

    MJOmom Member

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    The whole person concept is valid. If you apply, you will find out if it is good enough ... if you are intimidated by people who think straight As are the only route, well, another path might be better. Don't defeat yourself. Work on your grades, citizenship, sports and other commitments. Apply, get letters of recommendation, go through the Congressional nomination process ... complete everything and let the USNA Admissions board decide ... only then will you really know ... good luck!
     
  7. ValleyForge321

    ValleyForge321 Member

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    If your taking a a few AP classes I would say a 2.8 If not then a 3.4

    If you have a 3.4 1800+ SATs then you'll probably be going to the academy, if you dont have a nomination you'll be going to NAPS.

    My best friend only had a 1560 but was taking AP classes and had a 2.8 gpa. He's at NAPS right now.

    If your in a JROTC program I think it helps too.

    But the point is its all about grades or sports. If you dont get in which im sure you will, You can spend an extra year at one of the Five Military Jr Colleges.
     
  8. jennyp

    jennyp Parent

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    I'm overcome with curiosity, ValleyForge......are you currently at an SA? You speak very confidently about the Admissions process and the chances of the OP.........

    I would tend to say the OP needs to boost grades as much as possible and test scores, too! Makes me crazy when someone comes on here asking if XXX " will do" or "is good enough" and someone else says, "yeah, sure, you'll get in..." Incredibly naive, both on the part of the one asking the question and even more so on the part of the one answering with such a false sense of wisdom! It simply is not that easy to assess one's chances on this or any other forum, even knowing much more information than the OP provided. VF, you are giving someone a completely superficial, meaningless assessment!

    Read some of the recent threads. You will find candidates with stellar scores, varsity athletics, eagle scouts, community service, awesome grades who are now pondering whether to RE-APPLY. :eek: It is incredibly competitive. Let me repeat, INCREDIBLY COMPETITIVE.

    And, candidates, getting in is just the beginning. The academics at USNA are tough. Which is one reason why the gettin' in is so darn tough! You must be able to keep up once you are there!
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2010
  9. grtkidmom

    grtkidmom Member

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    Jenny P is correct ------ To all 2015 USNA applicants read jenny p post digest and read again, this advice is real world. Case in point our DS; and the following is not typical kid bragging, it is just fact. DS, 3 Q'ed with nom, Composite 30 ACT, (math was higher) HS Class President 3 yrs big HS, 7 varsity letters (3 sports), Soccer 3 yr academic all state, two year captain, numerous all conference, district area awards, NHS, community service, works, 3.77 gpa at 4 yr nationally ranked IB HS. Will receive HS International Baccalaureate Degree, CFA max score running and pushups, CWV invite and did not apply to NASS due to school exams and other commitments.

    In reading last year’s TWE posts, I privately thought no TWE for my DS he has it all these TWE'ers must be missing something. Move forward a year and the truth is, it is just unbelievably competitive. Remove Div 1 athletes, LOA's other USNA admission requirements/guidelines and the truth is there are a very limited number of slots available for candidates. Please note, I am not questioning/ complaining about USNA admissions policies and guidelines. I am not looking to start a debate discussing the fairness of USNA admission policies. It is what it is and we deal with it.

    Received TWE late April. Current plans, re-apply after completing year on NROTC Scholarship. As jenny p stated "It is incredibly competitive. Let me repeat, INCREDIBLY COMPETITIVE". One of the most important things to do in the process is to have a solid alternative plan. Some call it plan B, however DS now calls NROTC his alternate plan to achieve his goal to becoming a US Navy Officer.

    Good luck and have fun the application process is a great experience!
     
  10. usnajosh

    usnajosh Member

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    JennyP is spot on with her reply. I exceeded every requirement ValleyForge layed out in their reply by quite a bit, and a TWE still arrived with my name on it. There is no cut-off saying "if you are this good you will get in." All you can do is your best; the rest is not up to you.
     
  11. usna1985

    usna1985 USNA Alumnus

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    A grade of "C" -- even one -- in a h.s. calc, chem, or physics can hurt you. Not saying it always will but I've had it happen to a candidate. And a high math SAT may not help.

    So, those of you who are considering your courses for next year -- you have to weigh the benefits of a tough schedule with possibly getting lower grades in those tougher courses. If you think you can only manage a "C" in an AP class, I suggest you not take the AP level as that grade will likely hurt you.

    That said, you can't avoid calc and chem altogether b/c you are worried how well you'll do b/c not having those courses is also going to hurt. You need to evaluate your aptitude and then work very hard, which is what you'll have to do at USNA regardless of how smart you are.

    This is NOT to say that getting a "C" spells automatic doom. However, don't think that great ECAs and sports will always make up for less than stellar classroom performance.
     
  12. Gonavy93

    Gonavy93 New Member

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    I understand that it is important to have a rigorous course load including Chemistry, Physics, and Calculus in high school. Unfortunately, I will be taking Pre-Calculus my senior year and will not be able to take Calculus before I graduate. I was wondering if any of the BGO's on the forum have ever had any otherwise strong candidates to be appointed without it.
     
  13. usna1985

    usna1985 USNA Alumnus

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    I was. :shake: But that was a LONG time ago when it was much more rare for people to take Calc in h.s. Realize that BGOs don't see their candidate's transcripts so we only know the courses being taken if we ask.:rolleyes:

    My recommendations are: be sure to get an "A" or "B+" in Pre-Calc. Be sure you are taking other hardcore science courses, such as Chem w/lab or Physics. Forget Statistics -- USNA doesn't care about it. Do well on your math SAT/AC (which, in USNA's view, will help predict your success at college level math).
     
  14. PositiveThinking

    PositiveThinking Member

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    Our son was in a similar situation. Have you checked into the possibility of taking Pre-Cal this summer at a local college/junior college? This is what our son did in order to take AP Calculus his senior year. He had to jump through some hoops to get it approved because this was not the normal course of events at his high school. But after talking to his counselor and the AP Calculus teacher about his goals, and taking a screening exam at the college, he was allowed to do it. It paid off for him (he's making A's in AP Calculus), but it wasn't fun being in a math class every day and having homework every night during the summer while his friends were playing!:wink: He even used this experience in one of his essays about a situation when he had to overcome an obstacle in order to reach his goal. :thumb:
     
  15. MomoftheMagik

    MomoftheMagik Member

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    GoNavy93, I agree with PositiveThinking. Another option would be to take both pre-calc and calc as dual-enrollment courses during the fall and spring semester next year. That's what my appointee did this year. We also felt that taking some courses in college classrooms was a valuable experience for him.

    Good luck on your quest!!
     
  16. USNA

    USNA Member

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    So much depends on the competitiveness of your district. I have no doubt that my son belongs at USNA. Yet, if we lived just two miles west of where we do, I have great doubt that he would have received an appointment fresh out of high school.
     
  17. usna1985

    usna1985 USNA Alumnus

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    The above posters are correct. This is why people on this board can't tell you whether or not you'll get in or even what you need to work on. I had 5 candidates this year whose credentials would blow your minds -- 4 got TWEs and one a WL.

    This isn't meant to discourage people -- pull up the appointment thread and you'll see there are lots of candidates who made it. Nonetheless, no one can say, "do this and you'll get in." You can only do your best and, even then, it might not be good enough. That tends to be true in life.
     
  18. CronusMom

    CronusMom Member

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    You are so right about competativeness. We are from Maryland, and competativeness for USNA appointment is just over the top!

    There was not a single appointment to USNA from my son's NJROTC unit this year (there were 2 appointments last year), and these kids are VERY qualified. The unit did have 2 appointments to USAFA, 1 to West Point, and two 4-year NROTC scholarships awarded, including my son.

    From year to year, you just never know. Follow through and complete the process, and then hope for the best.
     
  19. House06

    House06 Member

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    Very good advice offered! I would like to say that our situation with grades lower than "A' was a little different. We "strongly" encouraged our daughter to take as many AP Math and Science courses as possible. Her Calc class was divided into different sections Pre-Cal, Cal AB and then Cal BC ( online). During Calc A-B the Trig portion was taught separately. Daughter got a C on her transcript for that portion. Overall her grade was a "B" but on her transcript a big fat "C" the only one.

    Grade was a result of personality conflict- only teacher to teach this course, daughter had already had her 3 times. Teacher had major attitude with daughter taking two Math courses at the time Pre-Cal, Honors Geometry, A's in both courses. And the youngest student in Pre-Cal with the highest class grade. Also, daughter developed a little attitude and didn't put in enough effort.

    Bottom line, the "C" for the 9 weeks grade didn't kill her. In addition to taking the heaviest AP courseload for her HS and lettering in varsity Fall and Spring sports at the same time. CAUTION: however, a "C" on a transcript can make a difference for a candidate.

    We encouraged our daughter to be prepared to answer, if asked, about the "C" on transcript during interview. And of course highlight the fact that she struggled with Trig and did not put in enough effort during that part of the course and "earned" a C. It did not come up.

    I believe that grades are very important, as are extra-curriculars. It is very important going to a school such as the Naval Academy to do very well in Math and Science. Not that you need to be an "Einstein" but that you need to do well academically. After all that is why you are going to college.

    As a sidenote; several of daughter's friends who are ranked higher academically than daughter (#3-#4) in graduating class- dropped AP courses if they did not think they would get an "A" in order to protect their GPA. Ironically enough, even with the "C" and smattering of "B"s on transcript; daughter got into more competitive universities, service academies and Top Twenty nationally ranked university, than her highly ranked classmates combined including #1 Val who never made anything lower than an "A' entire HS career.

    I dont bring this up to brag( well maybe for 5 seconds) but to really really stress importance of being well-rounded. Even though as other posters have already pointed out, that very well-rounded candidates do not always get an appointment.

    So, work HARD in all areas, Academics, physical training, extra-curriculars, leadership and learn to become an articulate communicator( in writing and face-to-face). All these things will greatly increase your appointment opportunities.
     
  20. bmorris244

    bmorris244 Member

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    Just to add my two cents on what's here;
    You may get pretty depressed about your chances of getting in now, but looking out from inside it's easier to see that it's still possible.
    Just try your best, and hope for the best. Do your best in academics, athletics, and *leadership.* All through plebe summer they refer to you as the "best and the brightest," and they asked us to prove to the other fifteen people who applied for each of our spots that we belonged. There will be those who barely even glance at an application, and still get in. There will be those who spend 4 years preparing, and get rejected.
    Everyone was an AP student. Everyone was captain of some varsity sport. Everyone was an Eagle scout, or an NHS president, or a valedictorian.
    Just try your best, and try everything.
     

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