Why didn't little Johnny or Janie get an appointment?

Christcorp said:
"So it's great when I read about the average gpa/act/sat applicants who receive and appointment, because they had the WHOLE PERSON package. This shows what the academy is after. Not just the STEREOTYPICAL Diversity that most people think of."

Your son sounds like a winner and so do you. I think in many cases that "whole person" basis is a sham, designed to give the excuse to admit applicants that fall into a category that society deems necessary to build a balanced academy and eventually a balanced military.

The admissions process does not allow for in depth probing into these applicants, regardless of what people say. Basically they have letters of recommendation (all of which are stellar) and grades and test scores to evsluate. It's a big, big job.

The kids passed over are very often more accomplished than others that get in based upon the color of their skin, the neighborhood they grew up in, their sports potential, their gender, and other boxes the academies need to check.

Sure, some of these kids are fantastic. Maybe even most are. But a totally deserving kid that should have gotten in based upon his/her record that doesnt, just so the academy could fill a quota or team is just wrong in my book.

My book. Opinions differ, and all are entitled to one. It's 2016, and not cool to be a racist, misogynist, etc. And I am not. I just ache for those kids that are super deserving but left out. And believe me, I know some.
 
Maplerock. I appreciate your passion about this topic, but every time you post about this or similar; you refer to "Deserving Kids" who didn't get in and "Their Record". I hate to say it, but it sounds like your "Benchmark, Standard, or determination" for "DESERVING" is based off of academics.

You mention how certain kids that are passed over...... are very often MORE ACCOMPLISHED.

Before we can take this discussion, debate, argument, etc. one step further..... you must DEFINE what you consider to be "MORE ACCOMPLISHED".

And I will say right now, that if you limit or put too extensive significance on their GPA, ACT/SAT, Class Rank; then this discussion is already over. Because you don't understand what I've been saying.

And as for your believe that the "Whole Person" concept is a sham, just so the academy has an excuse to meet their societal quotas; and that is doesn't actually contribute to leadership development; then again, this conversation is over. You obviously either don't understand, or don't agree with anything I've said about diversity. And that's ok. You don't have to agree. I'm not asking you too. I don't know your experience or background. You could be a retired general with 20-30 years in the military; or a parent of a cadet/military member with no experience in the military at all. But I DO HAVE EXPERIENCE. I have 20+ years of experience in the military; 17+ years experience in the private sector; I've had as few as 3-5 people working for me and more than 50-60 working for me. I've seen all sorts of interaction between peers, leaders, subordinates, etc. Besides degrees in Electronic Engineering and another in Computer science, I also have one in Behavioral Science. I definitely understand the affect beliefs, perspectives, and experiences have when shared between people of different backgrounds.

As far as the academy not probing deep into these kids, that's just plane not true. That's the one thing I really enjoyed about being an ALO. I've said it before, and will say it again. An ALO can NOT get you an appointment, but the ALO can definitely STOP you from getting one. When the academy and the selection board reviews your application, one of the FIRST THINGS they look at is the ALO's report. MOST ALO's have visited with the candidate a number of times. It's not just one visit and the interview. I met with applicants, either in person or on the phone, no LESS than 3-4 times. I, like many ALO's contacted the applicant's school to learn more about them. We google search the local newspapers and such to see if your name pops up. We check facebook and twitter. When our report is done, the academy has a pretty good idea who this candidate is. And the reports we write are pretty explicit.

So, as long as you believe that DIVERSITY is strictly a race/color/gender attribute; and as you consider MORE DESERVING to primarily mean an applicant's GPA/ACT/SAT/Class Ranking; you will be prejudiced against even the concept of the "Whole Person". Now, if you can define MORE DESERVING to mean attributes other than academics; and you can show how an individual was MORE DESERVING and didn't get the appointment; I'd really love to discuss that. But as I've said in the past, I've had applicants who didn't get an appointment, and I can almost assure you that my NOT RECOMMENDING him pretty much guaranteed it. Even though in his mom's opinion, and most people's, he was one of the MOST DESERVING. But this was a kid who really didn't want to be there. He just didn't want to tell his parents that.

Point is, the academy does look pretty in-depth of the applicants. That's what the ALO/BGO/MALO is for. And MOST of them do a great job. And in an average year if I had 10 applicants, I DID NOT give everyone of those applicants a shining walk on water rating. I did my best NOT to compare them to each other, but I also rated them on their accomplishments; what they did with what they had to work with; adversity that they've overcome; etc. It's pretty detailed.
 
My DS is at MMI this fall as a Self Prep in their SAP program. We've had many discussions about this topic and have learned a lot over the last year or so. He's that kid in the 85% - 90% that Christcorp talks about and believe in the validity of the "whole person" concept. We talk about concepts to "job fit" - is a SA the right "fit" for you? We talk about doing his best, controlling what he can control and not worrying about what he can't, networking and surrounding himself with like-minded people, getting help when he needs it and blocking out the nay-sayers and Debbie Downers. He's leaving nothing to chance but is living by the following:

Proverbs 16:3 - Commit your actions to the LORD, and your plans will succeed.
Proverbs 16:9 - We can make our plans, but the LORD determines our steps.

I'm also reminding him to enjoy the ride...I'm reminded of a short story by Robert Hastings about the Journey...worth remembering and instilling in our sons and daughters - and maybe ourselves...

THE STATION
By Robert J. Hastings

Tucked away in our subconscious minds is an idyllic vision in which we see ourselves on a long journey that spans an entire continent. We’re travelling by train and, from the windows, we drink in the passing scenes of cars on nearby highways, of children waving at crossings, of cattle grazing in distant pastures, of smoke pouring from power plants, of row upon row upon row of cotton and corn and wheat, of flatlands and valleys, of city skylines and village halls.

But uppermost in our conscious minds is our final destination–for at a certain hour and on a given day, our train will finally pull into the station with bells ringing, flags waving, and bands playing. And once that day comes, so many wonderful dreams will come true. So restlessly, we pace the aisles and count the miles, peering ahead, waiting, waiting, waiting for the station.

“Yes, when we reach the station, that will be it!” we promise ourselves. “When we’re eighteen. . . win that promotion. . . put the last kid through college. . . buy that 450SL
Mercedes-Benz. . . have a nest egg for retirement!”

From that day on we will all live happily ever after.

Sooner or later, however, we must realize there is no station in this life, no one earthly place to arrive at once and for all. The journey is the joy. The station is an illusion–it
constantly outdistances us. Yesterday’s a memory, tomorrow’s a dream. Yesterday belongs to a history, tomorrow belongs to God. Yesterday’s a fading sunset, tomorrow’s a faint sunrise. Only today is there light enough to love and live.

So, gently close the door on yesterday and throw the key away. It isn’t the burdens of today that drive men mad, but rather regret over yesterday and the fear of tomorrow. Regret and fear are twin thieves who would rob us of today.

“Relish the moment” is a good motto, especially when coupled with Psalm 118:24, “This is the day which the Lord hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.”

So stop pacing the aisles and counting the miles. Instead, swim more rivers, climb more mountains, kiss more babies, count more stars. Laugh more and cry less. Go barefoot more often. Eat more ice cream. Ride more merry-go-rounds. Watch more sunsets. Life must be lived as we go along. The station will come soon enough.
 
Swag said:
Thank you for writing this. My DS is not the 4.0...he's the 3.3. Even with the low GPA and the slightly above average test scores he has a dream to serve his country. If it's not through a Service Academy, he will accomplish his goal. The most amazing part is even though these forums can be discouraging when all you see are the 4.0's, he's still going for it! Of course he's not foolish, has plans A-Z in the works, and is studying for the ACT/SAT. You never know...he may be just what they are looking for and deserves just as much of a chance as anyone else. Thank you for your words of wisdom...you made my day!
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I will say ChristCorps posts are what helped me understand the Academy. I have not been on here for some time (busy keeping up with my Doolie) but when I read your post, I remember being just like you and wondering what chance my son had.
My son was also not the perfect 4.0 student or an athlete, but what he did have was a passion for the Air Force. A passion to serve his country not in any armed forces, but the United States Air Force. He is a smart kid who never really applied himself in high school and did pretty good, not great, but good. His senior year he realized where he wanted to be and put his all into his application. He was offered a prep slot (which I learned about from all be amazing people here) and although he had a few other college acceptances he took it. I believe a seasoned poster said "It's the golden ticket!" He took this extremely amazing opportunity and worked very hard to
excel at the Prep. Now, as a freshman in the class of 2020 he knows everyday is a blessing. He has matured by leaps and bounds in one year. We are so thankful they saw something in him that he was chosen. In letters home from basic he said "I look out and see the Chapel and think, I am so lucky"

He talks about the students he has met and realizes they were the "no brainers" with the 4.0's and amazing resumes. I think seeing them gives him a little push to study harder.

Good Luck!
 
Swag said:
He would be honored to attend Prep. I wasn't sure if flieger88 was referring to an Academy prep or one of the other Prep schools. Thank you all of the advice...I have learned a lot from all of you!
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I went to Northwestern Prep.

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
 
The whole person concept is very important. My son is now in the process of applying to the USAFA, USCGA, and USNA and in conversations will them - the whole person concept came up every time. My son is strong (but not outstanding) academically (3.87 with AP/H classes, member of the National Honor Society), has decent SAT scores (1310, retook them on 1 OCT 16 and awaiting results to see if he went up), is a member of the Civil Air Patrol (he is a Lt Col and the cadet commander, he won the Officer of the Year for Delaware, and testing for the Spaatz Award in Dec). He is also a team captain on the Cross Country team and ran Indoor/Outdoor Track. He spends time volunteering in the community and has a part-time job.

He's hoping this is enough. He's work hard to ensure he has the multiple areas covered. We can only wait an see. Plan B is a ROTC scholarship. There are a lot of qualified kids out there and that is a great thing to see, especially in today's world. It's always refreshing to see the next generation willing to serve. As a USAF veteran, I welcome it. Next step for him will be the interviews with MOC if he gets to that point. wishing all of the others good luck.
 
Christcorp,
Your post is spot on and well said. You clarified and elaborated the "whole person" concept that's noted in the composite selection of the candidate handbook. The real AF is not all 4.0 GPA and max SAT. While these are great accomplishments, the USAFA can't be looking for only these results.
 
Christcorp said:
WARNING: This will be a little long.

This thread is mainly for those new to applying to the academy and are in the process of doing their application and preparing for their MOC and ALO/BGO/MALO interviews.

Usually between May and now, discussions pop up about why certain individuals didn't receive an appointment. Or why they didn't receive a nomination. And of course, the whole debate on how some feel that applicants "Who were more qualified" didn't receive an appointment. Which leads into discussions of fairness. I've seen this topic come up in all forums for every academy, as well as other forums; not just here.

This topic isn't really open for debate; as none of us are in a position to sit on a selection board to make appointments. But it is important to know some of the whys. Especially for those who feel that they, or someone they know, didn't receive an appointment, but "APPEARED" to be "MORE QUALIFIED". If some want to discuss and debate it, that's fine, but I'm not going to get into a pi$$ing contest.

You will read many times in these forums from prominent posters like Pima, Flieger, and so many others, that the academies are looking for the WHOLE PERSON CANDIDATE. What does that mean? Better yet, why is that so important. Well, it's significant to this thread, because the first thing people have to stop doing, is basing all of their opinions on numbers. What I mean is, people are so use to academics being the defining factor in success. E.g. Honor Society, Dean's List, AP/IB program, Valedictorian, etc. When people mention certain academy applicants who didn't receive an appointment, and they consider them "More Qualified", almost ALWAYS they are referring to the individual having stellar GPA and ACT/SAT scores. People have to stop thinking this way. Are academics important? Of course they are. But remember what I wrote in the beginning of this paragraph. The academies are looking for the WHOLE PERSON CANDIDATE. So when you THINK that someone More Qualified didn't receive an appointment, you have to look beyond their academics. And without knowing the competition, and what their resume looked like, you really can't tell who was "More Qualified".

So what are the things YOU CAN DO to make YOU TRULY MORE QUALIFIED???

1. Challenge and Excel in academics: A 4.0gpa doesn't mean anything if you aren't taking the most challengin classes offered. You won't be penalized if the IB program isn't offered, or if you don't have a lot of AP classes available. But you DEFINITELY WILL be penalized if such classes are available, and you aren't taking them. This is why the academy requests your school's profile and your class schedule. They prefer, and WILL TAKE an individual with a 3.7 gpa in all AP/IB classes over a 4.0gpa in traditional or normal state required classes.

2. Leadership: Yes, it's great if you're involved in a lot of activities such as JrROTC, CAP, Scouts, Band, 4H, Sports, fund raising, etc. But if you aren't a LEADER in these activities, they count very little for leadership. And the academies are looking for future military leaders. Therefor, they want to see applicants who have a disposition towards leadership.

3. Social activities: The academies are looking for "Team Players". This doesn't just mean sports, is although that definitely shows such activities. But it includes the clubs and activities you're part of that has definite short and long range goals, where the good of the COLLECTIVE is emphasized over the good of the INDIVIDUAL. This is very important when looking at sports. Some sports are very "Individual" in nature. As such, you need to be able to qualify the "Team" part of this. It's great if you're the fastest sprinter or swimmer; but if you don't mention "Team Awards" where you contributed to the TEAM, then you aren't getting what the academies are after.

4. Physical Fitness: This isn't usually a problem. Most people understand the CFA and what it means. But realize, "Athletics and Physical Fitness" are two TOTALLY DIFFERENT THINGS. They have different purposes as far as the academies are concerned. Go to the first sticky in this forum where I explain why sports is so important. That's totally different from physical fitness. DON'T CONFUSE THE TWO.

Beyond these things, what is important to know about the "WHOLE PERSON" concept the academies are looking for, is that they are looking for a diverse and cohesive class. This is very common even in the job market. I have hired a lot of individuals in the past. Some might say that I didn't hire an individual who was "MORE QUALIFIED" than someone I did hire. That may be true, from an academic or experience viewpoint. But just like many applying to the academy tend to emphasize academics when they define "More Qualified", in the real world, employers are also looking for individuals who are a GOOD FIT for their company. An individual who they feel will be a better part of the "Team". The academies are no different. They are developing a leadership corp that will be leading a very diverse enlisted corp. They don't want a leadership corp that are simply all the "Best Academic Achievers" out of high school. If that was the case, the academy would most likely be made up of cadets who all came from the best private schools in the country. Where the kids are prepped to all attend the best universities in the country. And believe it or not, the academies do get some of these kids. But an entire class of those applicants would make a terrible leadership corp going forward. Your beliefs, perspectives, views, etc. that you were brought up on, are NOT THE ONLY VIEWPOINTS in the world. To make an effective leadership corp, the future leaders need to have diverse experiences, opinions, perspectives, etc. that they can contribute to and learn from the other cadets in their class. They need to perspecives and viewpoints of the rich and poor. The white and black. The city and country kid. The traditional and not so traditional family. Why? Because these are the very people they will be leading. And you can't be an effective leader if you can't understand and associate with those you are leading.

So yes, that means the academies are going to try and make their classes diverse. They are going to grow their applicants from every background they can find. They will find applicants who excel in every conceivable discipline. From band to cheer leading; from scouts to JrROTC; from Football to class president; from working the family farm 5 hours a day to raising your baby brother and sister because mom has 2 jobs; etc.

So what can YOU DO? Besides the things mentioned above, you need to show HOW and WHY you are DIFFERENT!!! What makes YOU so special? Why about you is going to contribute to the academy class to help make everyone else a better leader; and in turn make you a better leader. This is a job interview. You are not entitled to this job. Just like there have been many jobs I've applied for an didn't get. You need to sell yourself. You need to show that the academy needs you in their class of cadets. I've interviewed a lot of applicants. You'd be surprised at how 10 interviews on the same day, all asked the same question, all from the same home town and basic background, can still be SO DIFFERENT.

Obviously, there will be some in the "No Brainers" club. These are the applicants who have it all. And almost always, they all receive appointments. But the No Brainers club only makes up about 10-15% of the academy. The remaining 85% are in a fierce competition. And sorry to say, but just because you have a 3.95 or 4.0 gpa in all AP/IB/Honors classes and a 34-36ACT, doesn't make you "More Qualified" than someone else. I have seen many times where a 3.4-3.6gpa and 28ACT was MORE QUALIFIED. WHY? Because they are the Whole Person. They have everything the academy is looking for, in order to be the future leader they are looking to develop and to contribute to a class that will make THE TEAM a better and more diverse group of leaders.

Some will argue this thread. That's ok. I don't mind. But the truth is the truth. Academics is important; but it's not everything. And unless you know your competition, which is almost impossible to know, there's absolutely no way anyone can say that they should have received an appointment, because they were MORE QUALIFIED than others. I had a parent 2 years ago venting at me because their son didn't receive an appointment. She was convinced he was definitely more qualified than some who made it. The truth is, he probably was one of the MOST QUALIFIED applying. I didn't have the heart to tell her that her son really didn't want to attend the academy. That he was only applying because his parents wanted it. So I let her believe it was the academy's fault. I figured her son would tell her in time what he told me.

Anyway; I hope some of this helps. Hope it adds perspective. Best of luck those applying for this coming year.
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Out standing writing. Very very good words and thoughts.... I hope everyone reads it including the nominating authorities
 
Christcorp's post is so handy and plain spoken, I always enjoy seeing it.
Another unknown factor is how the candidate presents at interviews or has interacted with involved officials along the way. On paper, a candidate could be great, but in person, there could be a number of reasons the candidate doesn't make a good impression. Hesitancy about the desire to attend, an air of arrogance, a know-it-all flavor, apparent ignorance about areas that should have been researched, sloppy appearance or communications skills, lack of courtesy to anyone involved (at my last company, we had a candidate for a job who was rude and demanding with the HR staffer handling intake admin, and we didn't continue with the hiring process) - any of the above may not have been intentional, but f2f, email and phone call interactions all add to the formation of impressions of the candidate. It could be a tipping point, either way, as those involved in the process form their opinions.
 
I had a conversation with my DS over the holidays. I mentioned this forum and this thread in particular. I found it interesting that he said in his group of 2020 friends they had several discussions about the process and gave some insight from guys who just went through it. I thought it would be nice to share with everyone.

My DS and his friends came to the conclusion that there is no magic sauce to getting an appointment if you are a qualified applicant. It all depends on the needs of that particular year. What areas does the SA need Cadets? This speaks to the diversity part of Christcorps thread, but also to other areas outside of the individual that impacts a SA. It depends on the geographical area.

He also told me there was a presumption before getting to the SA that the first group of students get appointments and then the next group gets offers to go Prep. However, this is wrong. Many of those who get TWEs have a better resume than Preppies. Generally, they have no holes but for whatever reason that year did not make the cut. Usually preppies have a solid application with one or two holes that qualify them for the prep school. It is also a place for ICs to work on the academic side for a year prior to enrollment.

My DS gave the advice that those who have solid applications should continue to apply the following year if it is their dream. They are likely a lot closer to the appointment than they think. He said there are several in his squadron who are second and even third year applicants. He thinks the Admissions committee looks favorably on applicants who show the persistence.

I hope this helps some who are in the process. The one last piece of advice I have for you is he said the people who struggle when they get to the SA seem to not fully understand it is a military commitment. He has seen this pattern with those who left the first year.
 
Everything that you said is what my kid is banking on because she is not the perfect 4.0 student, and she may never be but she has a story. This kid almost failed 5th grade, due to failing the STARR exam for math. She pulled up out of the nosedive and managed to pass, moving on to 6th grade. In 7th grade she decided to join Sea Cadets, that summer (by her own power) she changed all of her classes from regular to Pre-AP. To go from almost being held back to having A's in pre-AP classes to me is amazing. She works hard for every grade and can't relate to the kids who just breeze through without breaking a sweat. When I asked if it bothered her she said "no because when you get to the academy EVERYONE has to work hard and if you've never done it how will you know what to do?"
In regards to IB programs, our school has begun telling kids in the fine arts (like mine) that in order to do IB they have to drop all fine arts. Well, she's not doing that because her Plan B involves her French Horn and the Navy Band.
So far in my offline life I've seen so many different kids get in, and all of them have different strengths or stories. The Mid that pushes my girl everyday towards the academy, was not a star student but he managed to finish HS even after his mother passed and he was essentially homeless. Another cadet we know didn't have a varsity sport, but excelled at all star cheerleading. It takes all types. All we can do is hope we set them up the best we can and then let them take flight.
My kid is young but she's already got 3 plans in place (subject to change because...rising 9th grader):
A. Get into an SA (either Navy or Coast Guard)
B. Apply for an NROTC spot and got o UT Austin
C. Enlist and work her way from the bottom to the top
 
seacadetmum said:
Everything that you said is what my kid is banking on because she is not the perfect 4.0 student, and she may never be but she has a story. This kid almost failed 5th grade, due to failing the STARR exam for math. She pulled up out of the nosedive and managed to pass, moving on to 6th grade. In 7th grade she decided to join Sea Cadets, that summer (by her own power) she changed all of her classes from regular to Pre-AP. To go from almost being held back to having A's in pre-AP classes to me is amazing. She works hard for every grade and can't relate to the kids who just breeze through without breaking a sweat. When I asked if it bothered her she said "no because when you get to the academy EVERYONE has to work hard and if you've never done it how will you know what to do?"
In regards to IB programs, our school has begun telling kids in the fine arts (like mine) that in order to do IB they have to drop all fine arts. Well, she's not doing that because her Plan B involves her French Horn and the Navy Band.
So far in my offline life I've seen so many different kids get in, and all of them have different strengths or stories. The Mid that pushes my girl everyday towards the academy, was not a star student but he managed to finish HS even after his mother passed and he was essentially homeless. Another cadet we know didn't have a varsity sport, but excelled at all star cheerleading. It takes all types. All we can do is hope we set them up the best we can and then let them take flight.
My kid is young but she's already got 3 plans in place (subject to change because...rising 9th grader):
A. Get into an SA (either Navy or Coast Guard)
B. Apply for an NROTC spot and got o UT Austin
C. Enlist and work her way from the bottom to the top
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You mentioned a Plan being Navy Band - they are enlisted, of course, essentially professional musicians (and very good ones), but their career scope is Band, band, band - not really a launching pad for a career as a line officer, with little exposure to the Fleet and warfare communities and missions. It would be interesting to hear if SAF posters have experience of prior enlisted band members going to a line commissioning program.

I recommend searching for threads on the SMCs, senior military colleges, as a great ROTC avenue, as well as launching pad for re-applying to SA. More mids and cadets than you might think are 2x/3x re-applicants. There is nothing wrong with attending "regular" college, taking a parallel curriculum, succeeding, and re-applying. Many do this. See link:
https://www.usna.edu/Admissions/Steps-for-Admission/Previous-Candidates-and-College-Candidates.php


Going via the enlisted route is the very long and unpredictable way round, and I am of the school of thought that puts it way down around Plan M. The chain of command may be unsupportive, she may be deployed at sea and at a remote duty station and find it hard to pull stuff together. Academic skills will get rusty.
 
I want to give you a little insight on my DS. He is a very bright kid. He went to a high school with a graduating class of about 1,000. The school was ranked at the #1 school in the country for athletics for two of his four years by Max Preps. He took 15 to 17 AP/IB classes. He did not do the entire IB program because his counselor and ALO advised it would better suit him for the SA to take more AP maths and sciences. He took Spanish and French in high school. He was more concerned over taking as hard a schedule as possible than maximizing his GPA. It was his plan (not ours).

He ended high school with a 3.8 unweighted GPA that included one semester D in Calculus BC and a C in Physics BC. However, he made 5s on the AP exams for both of those two classes. He was not a top leader in CAP, but earned the Mitchell Award and was a two year team member on a national semi-finalist Cyber Patriot team. He earned a scholarship through Women in Aviation and went to CAP Powered Flight Academy. He was a National Honor Society student, French Club officer and involved in our church. He was a three year varsity letterman on a three year championship team. He was far from a star on the team. He attended USAFA and USNA SSs. He made a 25 on the ACT as an 8th grader, 30 as a 9th grader, a 32 as a sophomore and a 34 as a junior. He was a strong candidate, but not more special than most that apply.

This year after one semester he made the Dean's list. He is on Honor Guard. He continues to push himself. He actually stated he studies less, but is busier at the SA than he was in high school. He loves being there. There is no secret sauce. I think all the applicants are special. I think if it is your dream and you are competitive then keep trying as there are a lot of guys at USAFA who did not get there on one try.
 
I try not to lean on her to much, she talks about attending USNA but then gets in her head that she can't make it and tells everyone she's just going to enlist. Then she talks to her Mid friend and he tells her to calm down, she's only a rising 9th grader, ect so she pushes forward. I found out the other day she sent Christmas cards to both our Senator and Congressional Rep, all on her own...so the drive is there but I try so hard to make sure this is her decision and not mine or her grandfather's.
I was in boot camp with a woman that had her Master's in Music and was enlisting to be in the band, I honestly assumed she did NROTC but I was more than likely wrong (not the first time or the last). That's why I'm here, so I can at least give her the most accurate information.
Here is my kid's flow of consciousness...."I want to fly a plane, I want to build things underwater, I want to build SHIPS, oh wait I want to fly a plane again, ohhh I just saw a documentary on the new Independence and Freedom I want to be on a ship, oh wait that's a long time at sea nvm, I want to fly again, but I'm only 4'11 can I fly?" If she gets into USNA, they will have fun with her because she is focused and does amazing at Sea Cadets but sometimes I just have to look at her and say "oh you're so pretty...":rolleyes:
I'm hoping she gets into STEM camp because that should give her a clearer picture of what she wants to do.
 
The prep school selection can be misunderstood by many. Some think that there's this magic cutoff of appointments, the the "NEXT IN LINE" who didn't receive an appointment, will be offered a prep school slot. It doesn't work that way. Here are some things to digest. About appointments and the prep school. (Doesn't matter if you like it or not; simply factual).

1. Because of the whole person concept and the diversity factor (Read my post, diversity isn't just gender, race, color, etc); it is not uncommon for some individuals who DO RECEIVE an appointment, to have a lower overall composite score, vs an individual who didn't make it.
2. Your application, scores, gpa, etc. can be "TOO GOOD" to receive an offer to go to the "Prep School". Remember; the original purpose of the prep school, was to PREP "ENLISTED" personnel who have applied to and been accepted to the academy, but they've been out of the "School Mode" for a couple of years and need to get "Back into the swing". Also, it's designed for individuals who if not for an isolated academic shortfall; e.g. good gpa except in one subject matter; or good gpa but bad SAT/SAT; etc. otherwise this individual would have been a "Shoe in" for an appointment
3. Approximately 75% of all prep school students will receive an appointment to the academy the next year. About 25% won't. And, of the 75%, not all will accept the appointment.
4. Besides enlisted personnel accepted to the academy; and excellent applicants with an academic "HOLE" in their application, the prep school does have some students who are offered a prep slot that some will find questionable. E.g. Athletes, minorities, etc. Remember..... the academy is looking for diversity. That diversity includes every possible sub-culture. And the prep school may have more of one than another, if the academy feels it needs more of a certain group to achieve the diversity level they are striving for. But this "Diversity Group" is dependent on how many apply. With recent rule changes concerning sexual orientation, the academies may determine in the not so distant future, that they want more LGBT individuals to become more diverse. If enough "Qualified" don't apply to receive a direct appointment, they could try getting some into the prep school in the hopes that they will improve and be part of the 75% to receive appointments.
5. Of the 12,000 +/- initial applicants; reduced to 6,000, then down to about 3,000, and finally down to around 1,200 appointees; something that is overlooked and not spoken of often is; NOT EVERY ONE OF THOSE APPLICANTS WANT THE ACADEMY AS THEIR #1 CHOICE. Just like you might have 2,3, or 4 other schools as your "PLAN B"; many applicants actually apply to the academies as THEIR PLAN B. 8 years ago, it was not uncommon for about 500 people to TURN DOWN an appointment. That number has gone down somewhat because the economy isn't the greatest, but there's still a LOT OF APPLICANTS and APPOINTEES who didn't apply to the academy as their #1 choice.
6. Just because an individual who DID receive an appointment with a lower cumulative score than someone else who didn't receive an appointment....... doesn't mean the academy is "LOWERING IT"S STANDARDS". The truth is; about 85%+ of ALL CADETS walking in the door, are WAY OVER THE STANDARDS. Remember; the average gpa going into the academy is 3.86. But that is NOT THE STANDARD!!! The standard isn't to take the HIGHEST GPA. Or the HIGHEST TEST SCORES. If in order for the academy to get the diversity of class profile they are looking for, meant that the average gpa was going to be a 3.60 instead of a 3.86, then that's fine. Guess what; the 3.60 is STILL above the minimum standard. DO NOT CONFUSE and INTERCHANGE MEANINGS for MINIMUM STANDARD, AVERAGE SCORES, HIGHEST SCORES, and CLASS PROFILE GOAL

I know some what to think that the "GOAL" should be to take the BEST of the BEST of the BEST. Well, that's true. It is. Unfortunately, not everyone's DEFINITION Of "BEST" is the same. The academy wants the BEST CLASS. That doesn't mean taking 1200 students all with 4.0 gpa and 32+ ACT scores. Remember the ultimate goal. To produce Air Force Officers, who represent and will lead the Enlisted Corp. And if you realized how DIVERSE the enlisted corp is; you'd understand better why it's important to have a diverse Officer Corp.

The academy/prep school is a very complicated process. But remember; it follows the "Einstein Law of Relativity". MEANING: You may not think it's right, fair, etc. But your position or understanding most likely isn't the same as the academy. And until you understand their position, and how THAT is RELATIVE to their GOALS, you may not come to an same understanding or acceptance.
 
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