Will my high class rank carry my fairly low SAT scores?

Discussion in 'Military Academy - USMA' started by Jwmiller6, Oct 27, 2012.

  1. Jwmiller6

    Jwmiller6 Member

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    I am very confident in the extracurricular/leadership and athletic portions of my application (Boys State Governor, Boys Nation Attendee, three varsity letters, and I am a Jiu Jitsu state champ). However, I am concerned about my academics. I am ranked 2/141 in my class (3/4 of my classes are college level or honors, so I plan to graduate as valedictorian), my GPA is a 4.0 (unweighted), but my SAT scores are fairly low (Math: 620, CR: 590, Writing: 600). I am taking the ACT tomorrow morning and I plan to take the December 1 SAT. If I am not able to up these scores, will I still be a competitive candidate?

    Thank you!
     
  2. tug_boat

    tug_boat Member

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    Again and again...

    The SAT and ACT tests are the test methods that standardize student capabilities. Even though your scores total 1810 and above the national average they are below the "mean" for any of the academies. You are trying to gain acceptance into the some of the most selective school. Your scores should be above 700 and/or a total of 2100 on the SAT and above 30 on the ACT. Use every available resource to learn how to take these tests. There is a technique to it. Take it again and again. It is common to plateau your score around the 3rd or 4th time.

    Push Hard, Press Forward
     
  3. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    I agree that your class rank will not overcome your SAT scores for the same reason. Being valedictorian, although important, doesn't help compare you against the other kids in the nation. It only compares you to the other students in your small school. You need to do well on the standardized tests. Take them every chance you get. If you do better act the ACT, then concentrate on repeating that and forget the SAT. Some students do better on one compared to the other.
     
  4. Jwmiller6

    Jwmiller6 Member

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    Thank you, for your inputs. I like the SAT much more than the ACT, so I plan to only retake the SAT. Also, if I am not able to increase my scores, do you think I have a chance at USMAPS (I understand that this is generally reserved for soldiers and athletes)?
     
  5. buff81

    buff81 Moderator

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    You have to be Academically DQ'd to go to USMAPS.
    With your class rank, GPA and SAT scores, you will not be Academically DQ'd.

    You just took the ACT today, right?
    WP will use the standardized test that you did the best on, so let's see how you did on the ACT. In the 30's would put you in good shape. :thumb:
     
  6. Rebel91

    Rebel91 Member

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    I would suggest that your grades and class rank may, in fact, be enough to overcome your SAT scores. Your location will be key, do you live in highly competitive area or one that is not that competitive? You may be a strong candidate in some parts of the country. Or you may have a Presidential Nom and be 3 Q'd and have decent shot. USMA has a very strong judo team and a mixed martial arts program, I would suggest you contact those coaches/faculty and sell your abilities as a martial artist and desire to compete for their respective club teams.

    Continue to study and prepare for the SAT and/or ACT, but I suspect your chances will depend upon where you live.
     
  7. Jwmiller6

    Jwmiller6 Member

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    I am not eligible for the Presidential Nom. However, my dad is a USMA grad. He graduated in the top 1% of his class in '89.

    I live in Alaska; there is only one congressional district here. My understanding is that we are less competitive than most areas. But, I am not sure. Is there a way to find out?

    Thank you, everyone!
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2012
  8. PTWEES

    PTWEES New Member

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    Not particularly, after looking at Murkowski's announcement this year (ref/service nominations : ADN) I had misjudged my initial outlook on competitiveness. A state with ~770,000 people only represented by 3 people, do the numbers. (ref/2011 census)

    I have been searching the Internet to find your answer, I do not think the information would be published online.

    Good luck though.

    Regards,
    Fellow state competitor.
     
  9. buff81

    buff81 Moderator

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    Your academic record is 60% of your Whole Candidate Score.
    This academic portion of the WCS is based on class rank and standardized test scores. Therefore, 30% of your WCS is your standardized test scores.
    So, your ACT/SAT scores are very important!

    You have a great class rank :thumb: Congrats!

    Your SAT scores need to be higher to be a competitive candidate - unless you bring something else to the table like being a recruited athlete or an under-represented minority.

    I would suggest that between now and the next time you are scheduled to take the SAT, I would take a prep class and/or read a 'taking the SAT' book. Take practice tests. Give it your best shot.
    Give WP the best scores that you are capable of making.
    I sincerely believe that if you put some work into prepping for the SAT, you will be able to raise your scores.
    Good luck :thumb:
     
  10. Jwmiller6

    Jwmiller6 Member

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    That is true. However, if you thinik about it, Cali has a population of around 37,692,000 (as of 2011) and 53 congressional districts. This makes it close to 711,200 people per district. So it seems as if we are more competitive. But, those 37,692,000 all have to apply to the same senators. We only have 770,000 people applying to the same senators. Also, Young, Murkowski, and Begich communicate with each other to ensure that the same people are not chosen as top choices. Because, we are the 4th least populated state, this technically makes us one of the less competitive.

    Thanks for the help!

    P.S. Where are you at in the state?
     
  11. Jwmiller6

    Jwmiller6 Member

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    Yes, I am preparring to take the Decemeber 1st SAT. I am hoping for at least a 2000, which combined with my class rank, should make me a very competitve candidate. Luckily, I have very strong leadership/extracurricular and fairly strong athletics (I could list everything, but I do not think you guys care). I have not taken the CFA yet, but I can max the pull-ups, sit-ups, and push-ups; my shuttle run, mile run, and basketball throw are all above average, but not maxed.

    Thank you, for the advice!
     
  12. Jason922

    Jason922 Future USNA Candidate '20

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    Those are well above-average SAT scores, and you still stand a small chance. Re-take the SAT if you still can. Aim to score at a MINIMUM a 32 on the ACT.

    Unfortunately, class rank and SAT scores are not on a scale, so they look at it seperately.
    Good luck!
     
  13. BigNick

    BigNick Member

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    You have a good record but your SAT scores - especially Math - will be a Red Flag. Getting into West Point is so difficult you must do your best to eliminate Red Flags.

    When the Admissions people see very high class standing and low SATs they see a disconnect. The usual conclusion is that your school is very easy hence the high grades but low SATs. Very high class standings usually means 700+ SAT scores - or at least very high 600's.

    You still have a chance but YOU MUST get these scores up. You should be taking the Nov 3 SAT tests and the Dec 1 SAT in order to get the results back in time. Remember they super-score so you have nothing to lose.

    However, one point. There is little point in taking the SATs multiple times unless you either take SAT training or take many practice SAT tests over and over (learning the principle associated with each missed question).

    Good Luck
     
  14. PTWEES

    PTWEES New Member

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    I am based in Anchorage although I have received all my education overseas in Australian/UK-International schools.

    Your data is good and here is a interactive map ( www datamasher org/mash-ups/people-representative ) to prove so.
    This presents a small problem, a state like California (ranked 26th in people per representative) should intuitively be far more competitive than a state like Alaska (ranked 28th in people per representative). Then simply people per representative does not truly indicate how competitive a state is.

    I would use something a bit more accurate as age topography varies greatly in states + only a certain age group is eligible to apply (17-24).

    Alaska
    Source: www infoplease com/us/census/data/alaska/demographic.html

    Age Population Percentile

    15 to 19 years 50,094 8.0
    20 to 24 years 39,892 6.4

    Representatives: 3

    So ~30,000 people per representative (29995)

    California
    Source: www infoplease com/us/census/data/california/demographic.html

    Age Population Percentile

    15 to 19 years 2,450,888 7.2
    20 to 24 years 2,381,288 7.0

    Representatives: 51

    So ~90,000 people per representative (91173)


    These two sites can give a better outlook into a states competitiveness rather than just overall population statistics. To further detail a specific state, look at high school performance results in said state.

    Hopefully I have shed light on something!
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2012

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