Will Vocational School Ruin My Chamces?

Discussion in 'Military Academy - USMA' started by EMMAB, Jan 7, 2016.

  1. EMMAB

    EMMAB Member

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    I have the opportunity to go to a Vocational school that offers College courses with credit along with a knowledge of whatever craft I choose.I am interested in the Criminal Justice program in which I will learn the in and outs of being in Law Enforcement.Will this look bad on my Transcript?
     
  2. EMMAB

    EMMAB Member

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    *Chances
     
  3. MemberLG

    MemberLG Member

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    Attending a vocational school won't ruin chances, but you will more challenges to overcome.

    The candidate evaluation is 60% academic, 30% leadership, and 10% physical. So if you do well on your SAT/ACT and be top 5% or higher in your class, you should be okay.

    From what I have seen there is some direct link between academic rigor (both quality and quantity) at high school and SAT/ACT scores. More than likely you will do better on your math SAT/ACT if you take 3 years of math classes by your junior year (i.e. geometry, trigonometry, & calculus, not general math, pre-algebra, algebra). So if you take some vocation classes instead of English, math, or Science class, you might be disadvantaged for SAT/ACT and if or when to get to West Point.

    Personally, I don't care about high school kids taking "college courses" in lieu of high school courses. Although college courses are supposed to harder than high school courses, but E=MC2 is the same regardless what level it is instructed at.

    Will there be difference in leadership/sports opportunities (I.e. clubs and sports) between the vocational school and other schools?
     
  4. EMMAB

    EMMAB Member

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    No they alter your schedule so you can participate in after school activities.
     
  5. EMMAB

    EMMAB Member

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    Also I will still have my core classes my class times are just shortened.
     
  6. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    In my hometown we have a Vocational school and the traditional HS. If your Vo-tech is like ours, than impo is I would not do it, especially if your traditional HS is a blue ribbon school. or ranked high overall within your state.

    There are many reasons why. As Member stated one is rigor.
    ~ At our Vo Tech they take the traditional, Math, English, Science and History, to comply with the state requirements for the standard diploma. The rest of the day it is filled with training for their vocation. IE I am assuming criminal classes for you.
    ~ Now the kid at our traditional HS will be taking higher level courses as electives for their 4 yrs. IE state requires 2 yrs foreign language, the traditional kid will usually take at least 3, and probably 4. Same with things like, APUSH, APGOV, APwhatever. My kids all ended with APUSH, APGOV, APEuro for history. AP French for language. APENG and APLIT. That was on top of 4 years of Math and Sciences.

    Why does that matter? Because if you live in the same district as my kid when you go up for step 1 (nomination) the MoCs are also going to look at that too.
    ~ If they do an interview, how will you answer why you elected to go to Vo Tech over the traditional school?
    ~~ You: I want to major in criminal justice.
    ~~ Them: What if you don't get to work in that field in the Army, what would you want to do?

    Let's assume they give you the nom. Now you are competing against the other 9 on the slate, and maybe one is at the traditional school with a more rigorous academic program because all of their electives are APs or jumpstart. Yours is not. It could be the most rigorous at your school, but than they look at the school profile too. Is it as rigorous as the traditional HS?

    There are a lot of nuances that go with charging an appointment from an MOC slate.

    Have you thought about staying with your traditional HS and take college courses on line or at the CC during the summer?

    FWIW: I believe in VoTech HSs. Had several friends that went that path and are successful. (Own their own landscaping businesses, salons, bakeries, etc) However, at least for my hometown, this is not a path where children go if they intend to apply to an Ivy league level school. WP is that level.
    ~ Ask yourself if you were applying to Harvard, GWU, Columbia, Cornell, NYU, Duke, UVA, etc for a criminal justice major as plan B (AROTC scholarship) would you go to the VoTech still? If the answer is no, than you have your answer.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2016
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  7. EMMAB

    EMMAB Member

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    The Vocational school Im going to offers the same classes given at my HS.And plus the Criminal Justice program doesn't just cover Criminal Justice it covers careers in the Military and it also provides me with an internship with someone in the Military my Senior year.
     
  8. tug_boat

    tug_boat Member

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    Let me throw this out there. Have you thought about going to your local recruiting office and talk with someone there about enlisting in the Army. There some great vocational opportunities available for young people. You can learn a vocational skill, go to school, and get paid. Look at opportunities that you can apply after your career in the Army like law enforcement.

    Push Hard, Press Forward
     
  9. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    Tug, he needs that high school diploma first!
     
  10. AROTC-dad

    AROTC-dad Just a dad

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    I agree with Pima. It sounds more geared for enlisted recruits.

    For USMA you also need AP classes. Voc ed typically will lack that AP level of academic rigor. USMA demands that candidates pursue the most challenging classes available. Will this Voc ed program truly provide this?

    edit: As Tug corrected me, I should have stated you also need college preparatory classes
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2016
  11. EMMAB

    EMMAB Member

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    Hm...No I haven't.My parents aren't really "gung ho " about me enlisting,I mean they know its going to happen,but I probably will end up calling an enlistment officer.
     
  12. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Okay,

    So you are saying in the end your academic curriculum will equal:
    AP CALC
    AP PHYSIC, CHEM, and/or BIO
    AP ENG or AP LIT
    APUSH, GOV,EURO, WORLD
    AP FOREIGN LANGUAGE

    Go to your GC now and ask these questions:
    1. What is the avg SAT/ACT score at the VoTECH compared to the traditional HS?
    2. % that go Ivy/4yr/2 yr/work force from the VoTECH compared to the traditional HS?
    3. % of students at the traditional HS that takes AP compared to VoTECH
    4. Grading scale (7 point or 10)
    5. class ranking

    I think you are missing my point. Just like Ivies, they will look at your HS profile and use their algorithm to decide part of that PAR.
    IE:
    You go VoTECH, and yes, you have internship, heck, let's say you are valedictorian too. Now, there is a candidate on the same MoC slate that attends the traditional school in your congressional district. That HS which you would have attended is blue ribbon.
    ~ Their school uses a 7 point scale, yours uses a 10. IE a 92 for you is an A. A 92 for them is a B.
    ~ The VoTech has 0% that go Ivy, the traditional has 15%.
    ~~ That other candidate is top 5% for rank, and played sports, hundreds of volunteer hrs, and leadership positions. The thing you have going for you is Valedictorian at a weaker academic school. The thing going for him is the school is seen stronger academically.

    I think you have made your decision to go with VoTech and are looking for confirmation.
     
  13. EMMAB

    EMMAB Member

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    Hm I see your point
     
  14. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I am not sure I would bite off on that one.

    1. When do you turn 18?
    2. Most military members, carry the lowest security clearance of Secret.
    ~ If not 18, you can't get a clearance.
    ~~ They are not going to just let you shadow them around and answer phones, plus being able to see things they do for criminal investigations without vetting you.
    3. Do you live near a military installation?
    ~ If not than the internship would be with someone that was ONCE in the military, but no longer. Thus, not a military internship.

    Honestly, I don't anyone that was in HS and did an internship with the military. 2+2 does not equal 4 here.
     
  15. tug_boat

    tug_boat Member

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    I completely understand kinnem. However, as a young person trying to get traction in life, find their niche and make their mark in the world this is not a bad place to start. A quick google search you can find the opportunities a young person may be looking for while still in high school. Army.com

    I try to write thing in a broad sense even directed to those who we may never register on SAF and never know.

    Push Hard, Press Forward
     
  16. tug_boat

    tug_boat Member

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    AP and IB classes are not a requirement for WP. There are a lot of high schools across the country that do not offer this level of course work. However, I do not want to discourage anyone who has the opportunity. You must think about Plan B and C and these course will certainly prepare you. Yes, you do need to take courses in high school to prepare you or WP such as four years of math and two years of chem with a lab are a must.

    Push Hard, Press Forward
     
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  17. tug_boat

    tug_boat Member

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    EMMAB, every job in your local community the Army needs too. If you want to be a welder, plumber, electrician, dentist, lawyer, medic, truck driver, mechanic and yes even a tug boat operator the Army has that opportunity. Figure out what is of interest and go for it. Not everyone in the Army goes into combat, to tell you the truth only about 10% are lucky enough to see combat.

    Push Hard, Press Forward
     
  18. EMMAB

    EMMAB Member

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    I turn 18 in 2018
     
  19. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    That means you are a sophomore now. What is your academic profile currently? What is your EC and sports profile?

    IOWs you would start VoTech as a junior.
     
  20. EMMAB

    EMMAB Member

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    Thanks tug_boat.And to answer your question Pima all of the classes you mentioned are offered at the vocational school maybe not with the title AP but they are instructed by college professors themselves.
     

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