Worried about getting kicked out of AFROTC.

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by DTRapture, Mar 11, 2016.

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  1. DTRapture

    DTRapture Member

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    Hello,

    I'm currently a 100 non-scholarship cadet at my detachment, and I'm deathly worried about being kicked out of the program. My academics aren't exactly the best thing in the world, and I'm currently failing Chemistry. In fact, my grade is so low in that class that if I pass the final exam with a 100%, I will barely scratch the surface of a D-. I have an incredibly hard time keeping up with fast-paced classes, and when I fell behind for a couple days, it was all over for me. Chemistry is one of those classes where if you fall behind for one day, you're in hot water. My other classes, like Aerospace Studies, have good grades because it wasn't too fast-paced, was interactive, and was overall enjoyable to be a part of; it's only Chemistry that's causing me deep and emotional stress.

    I obtained my second conditional event recently because I "failed" my PFA, even though my score was enough to pass; I did not meet the minimum amount of push-ups. And I may soon obtain my third conditional event if I fail Chemistry. My detachment has a "three strikes and you're out" rule with the conditional events, though I am not entirely sure if it's an immediate and automatic "you're out" without a chance to explain yourself, or if they sit down to reason with you and offer solutions to stay in ROTC.

    By today, I plan to email my cadre instructor about my situation because I am so worried about being kicked out. ROTC life took a couple months to adjust, but I can easily say without hesitation that I love it. I can say that I am a good cadet overall, only that my time management skills continue to jeopardize my life and my career. I want to tell my instructor that I've utilized my academic resources, busted myself trying to study, and have done everything in my power in regards to my grade in chemistry.

    This ended up as more of a rant, but I do have questions that need to be addressed, such as being immediately kicked out versus having the chance to redeem myself. Thanks so much for your time.
     
  2. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I don't think anyone can give you that answer, but you really need to ask yourself a couple of questions.
    1. With the avg gpa for a tech major being @3.0 with regard to SFT selection as a 200, what would you have to pull next semester to get to that cgpa?
    ~ SFT boards meet around this time next year, thus you only have 3 semesters.
    2. The PFA is also going to be a concern, the avg is going to be in the high 90s.
    ~ Granted you can get that up with working out seriously over the summer, but you need to decide how dedicated you really are.
    3. You have stated that this would be your 3rd strike, but not when and what was your 1st strike.
    ~ Hard to say as a defense that you can redeem yourself in their opinion if the 1st strike was for the PFA or academics last semester.

    I would also suggest that you do not use time management issues as a reason why not to be kicked out of AFROTC. A large reason they look at ECs for the scholarships is connected to illustrate strong time management skills.

    The cadre knows that as freshmen the 1st semester can be difficult, but they also know that SFT is going to be a make or break and there has never been 100% selection rate. They are going to have to make that call whether or not to nominate you next year. They are going to look at it differently than you right now. They are thinking of you too when they make their decision by deciding exactly how hard it would be for you to make the cut next year for SFT selection. They know the formula, and the formula includes how they rack and stack you, plus your cgpa and PFA. The last piece would be your AFOQT or SAT. Since you have probably not taken the AFOQT yet, than they are going to look at your SAT best sitting. Currently, you have 2 pieces that will be an issue for selection, and if the SAT is lower than the avg selected it could be the tilting point for their decision. It is not meant to be harsh or unkind, but quite the opposite. By allowing you to leave now, you still have the option of transferring over to AROTC or buckling down academically and try for OTS later on if you desired.

    My best hopes for you.
     
  3. DTRapture

    DTRapture Member

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    The university I attend actually operates under a trimester system -- Fall, Winter, and Spring. And from what I've heard, you get selected for Field Training on winter quarter in your 200 year.

    And regarding my 1st conditional event, it was for the exact same reason, for failing chemistry in the Fall quarter. The only difference this time is that I've utilized my full resources with studying and tried things differently, only for the same result yet again. I am just a horrible test taker.
     
  4. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    The other question that they will look at will be where is this going to leave you regarding commissioning on time for your academic plan. Failing it again or even just getting a D may mean for your major you can't take the next higher course, and that could mean a delay in graduation. Than it becomes what if you decide to switch majors will you still graduate on time, or will that be a delay too? Finally, as you probably know if you switch from tech to non-tech, SFT selection rate is lower and the cadets have a higher cgpa, so they will need to look at it from a non-tech perspective.

    This is why I say that for them they are going to look at everything.

    Do you plan to go rated?
     
  5. DTRapture

    DTRapture Member

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    What does that mean? Do I plan to get contracted and earn a scholarship? If so, then yes. I'm considering to go on a 5-year plan to become a 700/800 cadet at my fifth year, and I've informed my instructor about it, so I suppose it's already official. My intended major is Civil Engineering and I don't plan on changing it any time soon.
     
  6. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Rated means flying.
     
  7. DTRapture

    DTRapture Member

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    Ah, I don't plan on being a pilot.
     
  8. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Unfortunately you are just going to have to sit tight and wait. Hope for the best, but plan for the worst is all you can do...that and get off this forum so you can study for that Chem final, because your college academic adviser may also start chiming in regard to failing the same course twice if it is a requirement for other courses within your major.
     
  9. zrxkuma

    zrxkuma Member

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    extending to a 5 year graduation option requires approval from the Air Force and is not automatic.
     
  10. AROTC-dad

    AROTC-dad Just a dad

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    To the OP,
    Looking over your past posts, you repeatedly acknowledge a inclination toward "procratination and leisure activities." Clearly, if you are in danger of failing Chemistry twice even with a high final exam, you have to deeply examine your approach to quantitative academics and the engineering major.

    Chemistry is a hard subject, but not necessarily the hardest one associated with a Civil Engineering major. I really would recommend that you meet with an academic counselor and your Cadre to review your goals. There certainly is a possibility that you can remain in AFROTC, but the underlying priority is that you are able to survive your major core curriculum. If you are not careful, your standing in the college may be in jeopardy, not just your military future.

    Good luck.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2016
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  11. Aulysses

    Aulysses Member

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    Have you met with your instructors or advisors? You mention that you are going to email your cadre instructor. If you want a chance to stay in, you have to be proactive. That means face to face meetings, among other things. I believe that building relationships with professors, cadre, other cadets, etc. is one of the most important requirements for success. Forget the emails and start making appointments.
     
  12. Akrogan

    Akrogan Member

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    I comment this in a ton of threads like this:

    The professors can and will help; they pretty much can do whatever they want with grading...

    For instance, I had chemistry for engineers and was terrible at it and acknowledge this...however I went to every office hour, sat at the front, did all the supplemental homework...I still did awful on the tests, but I still got my C. The professor understood that I worked hard and that I respected him enough to put in the effort.

    Same case with a programming class; I put in the effort and she boosted a B to a B+.

    However I would recommend switching majors to something that would be more conducive to your future career...IT is an excellent major that isn't as hard as engineering, but still technical, might be something to look at.

    Honestly as long as you get good grades (3.0 + for tech, 3.5+ for non-tech) and you score above a 95 on the PFA, and work hard in ROTC...I don't see why you wouldn't get selected.
     
  13. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    That's the real problem for the OP. I am not sure they can pull out even a 3.0 cgpa at this point because their freshmen year is over and with 1, maybe 2 Fs on their record, a 3.0 might not be in the cards.

    The PFA isn't an issue because they have all summer to work out and can get to the point where they pass the push ups.
     
  14. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I can't agree more. As I stated earlier being disenrolled out of AFROTC may just be the tip of your iceberg.

    Let's assume you get to stay, and you get SFT, the thing is you cannot commission unless you graduate. My DS2 is a Bio-Chem major, not ROTC. It is only getting harder now for him as a junior, soon to be a rising senior. More hours due in the lab, and studying for STEM classes. More hours studying.

    Something any POC will tell you is this: AS100 it is easy. You have no "real" extra duties outside of LLAB, and PT. As early as an AS200 you will be given jobs within the unit that will take away from your studies. As an AS300/400 you could find yourself spending 20 hrs outside of LLAB/PT from a ROTC duty perspective. Now add in the aspect that classes are only get more demanding and so will AFROTC. You need to figure out a way on how you will juggle your time management.

    I know this thread is not very cheery, but if we can convince you to dive, be it your major or AFROTC, than you need to ask yourself how badly do you want either or both? Because if you truly wan either or both, than you will be just fine when you meet up with the cadre.

    OBTW, this is just advice from a business world aspect. I would have never emailed them. I would have walked into the unit and asked your 1st shirt for an appointment with the CoC.
    ~ I get it...this is your generation, regarding how you communicate, but you need to get that the CoC is not your generation. When they were in AFROTC back in the 90s, email was in its infancy and texting
    not exist. They called or walked in to the unit.
    ~~ My point is: Just because this is common for your generation, don't assume that it is common for them too! Don't assume that they will get you your email, or the level of respect for being proactive compared to the cadet that walked in between classes and requested an appointment. The little things matter too. You do know what ASSUME means right? Make an ARSE out of U and ME.

    Best wishes, hopes and thoughts. Use this time to decide what you truly want.
     
  15. Non Ducor Duco

    Non Ducor Duco I am not led, I lead

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    @DTRapture

    Has your add drop date passed? If you need a 100 on the final to get a D and you've been failing thus far, my advice would be to drop the class immediately. You're potential career is at stake.

    You also need to take a hard look at if your current major is something you really want to do. You said you were in an Aerospace class, it only gets harder from here. Although it's possible that chemistry may just be the bane of your existence. I absolutely hate biology and am merely OK at chemistry so I chose a major that has very little to do with either of those subjects and everything to do with physics.
     
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  16. CSU Cadet

    CSU Cadet Member

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    No kidding with the CGPA. In high school, I got 3.5's my freshmen year and first semester of my sophomore year. I even got 4.0s and 3.8s my junior and senior year. However, I majority slipped up and got a 2.5 my second semester of my sophomore year... Brought my grade down from a 3.8 overall to a 3.4... And that may have major consequences on my chance for an ROTV scholarship for the third board.

    School kind of sucks that way... One slip up can cost you dearly. You just gotta get back on your feet and try to recover to the best of your abilities.
     

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