Worried applicant :/

Discussion in 'Military Academy - USMA' started by kjang0613, Nov 12, 2010.

  1. kjang0613

    kjang0613 USMA 2015 Appointee

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    I am an Asian female applicant applying to USMA for the class of 2015 - I am pretty far on my file, as I only have the CFA left to do. I was told by my ALO that I have a pretty strong profile...

    3.971 UW GPA, 24/381 class rank
    630 CR and 620 Math (not good I know...)
    NHS president
    ASB treasurer
    Leader of Christian Club at school
    Leadership team for Link Crew
    200+ hours volunteering
    7 Athletic Varsity Letters
    Softball Varsity Team Captain
    All-Wesco Honorable Mention Junior year for Soccer and Softball
    All-Wesco 2nd team Goalkeeper Senior year

    I do not have an LOA, and I don't think that my profile is so strong that I would get a Principle nom....so if I don't have an LOA or Principle nom will I just get put on the waiting list? If so, how difficult would it be to get in? I find out about congressional noms December/January - so I am crossing my fingers for a principle nom but we'll see. Both my senators don't do any interviews so all they see is that I am on paper which is unfortunate.

    Anyways...I guess my main question is how difficult is it to get in from NWL and when would I find out?

    Thanks for any feedback :)
     
  2. freedomtruck

    freedomtruck Member

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    Just because you don't have a LOA/Principle Nom doesn't mean you'll be put on the waiting list. Your file looks pretty solid. To my understanding, those who are put on the NWL early on are fully qualified and often receive an appointment eventually.

    Make sure you're medically qualified. If not, get your waiver paperwork done.
     
  3. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    Essentially, it's an unanswerable question, since we don't know your WCS or where you'll fall on the NWL. It's certainly not impossible to be picked up off the NWL. Far from it.

    In a given year, USMA takes 350-450 off the NWL as needed to fill the class. The problem is that this year, word from admissions is to expect that number to be on the lower end, around 350 or so.

    Just keep on keepin' on.
     
  4. kjang0613

    kjang0613 USMA 2015 Appointee

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    * I am medically qualified - got my letter in the summer..

    @scoutpilot, what's WCS?
    If I don't get a principal nom or LOA, would I just wait anxiously for an appointment or a letter saying I'm on the NWL?
    I am nervous for the CFA - I know it's 10% of my file. Should I just focus on getting it done asap or take my time to prepare extremely well for it?

    Thanks!
     
  5. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    Rolling admissions. Sooner is better on everything!

    WCS = Whole Candidate Score. The numerical score your profile receives.
     
  6. kjang0613

    kjang0613 USMA 2015 Appointee

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    So I should take it asap?! I am concerned about the flexed arm hang/pull up...I can't do a pull up. At all. I am fine with everything else - would sub 8 min be alright for a female mile time?
     
  7. Peter

    Peter Member

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    If you're a girl, don't stress over not being able to do a pull-up. I had a friend who got into USAFA and she couldn't do one pull up. Now if you can do one...just one, that's better than an hour doing flexed arm hang. Try to shoot for one, but if you can't, don't stress over it. Just try to meet the average for flexed arm hang.

    Sub 8 minutes is below average for the mile time for a girl. If I were you, I would shoot for at least all averages for everything. That would guarantee you passing the CFA no problem.
     
  8. kjang0613

    kjang0613 USMA 2015 Appointee

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    I just looked and the average mile time was 8:06?
     
  9. Peter

    Peter Member

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    Yea, sub 8 minutes would be 8:30 from what I understood, which is below the average time of 8:06.
     
  10. kjang0613

    kjang0613 USMA 2015 Appointee

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    Oops sorry, misunderstanding! I meant under 8 minutes :)
     
  11. Peter

    Peter Member

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    Well, it's good as long as it's 8:06 or above.
     
  12. buff81

    buff81 Moderator

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    kjang0613-
    What State and District are you from?
    Do you know how competitive your District is?
    Do you know for certain that all 3 of your MOCs use the Principal with Competing Alternates/Numbered Alternates?
    I would be surprised if all 3 did since the most common method of nominating is the Competitive.
    You DID apply for the VP nom too didn't you?! :smile:
     
  13. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    For future reference, in military PT jargon, "sub 8 minutes" means faster, as in her time is less than 8 minutes. Saying "8:06 or above" means slower to someone in the Army.
     
  14. Peter

    Peter Member

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    Oh, that is true. Sorry about that.
     
  15. kjang0613

    kjang0613 USMA 2015 Appointee

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    I am from Washington State, in a very competitive District 1 (Jay Inslee)
    My ALO confirmed that Murray and Cantwell use the Principal nomination with numbered alternates.... is that good or bad news for me?
    And I am embarrassed to say no :frown:....I figured why bother because I don't think I have a chance if I am competing with the whole country?
     
  16. buff81

    buff81 Moderator

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    First of all - apply for the VP nom! It can't hurt. You may be THE one who gets it but you certainly won't if you don't apply. The deadline is JAN 31 so there is no excuse for you not to apply for the VP nom! So do it! Now!

    Principal with numbered alternates is great if you are the Principal nom. It is great if you are the #1 alternate and the Principal decides to go to USAFA or is not qualified. But who knows how far down the list WP has to go to get a qualified candidate that accepts. It may be the Principal or it may be the #9 alternate.
    If Rep. Inslee uses the competitive method, then WP will rank the 10 on the slate from highest to lowest by WCS and the one with the highest WCS will win the vacancy. Whether this is good for you or not depends on what your WCS is v. the other 9.

    Regardless of method of nominating, it is good to be on the slate of 10. If you are on the slate, you have a nomination - doesn't matter if you are on the bottom of the numbered alternate slate - you still have a nomination.

    IF you are not the Principal and are fully qualified, you will be put on the NWL and will be competing nationwide for an appointment. Only fully qualified candidates with a MOC nom (on the slate) but weren't the vacancy winner will go on the NWL. Your WCS will determine where you are on the NWL. The candidates are listed by highest WCS to lowest. That is why is it so important to keep updating your file. Updating with honors, awards, increased ACT/SAT scores, etc will increase your WCS and therefore move you up on the NWL.

    Re CFA - take the test when you know that you can score at least average on every section. You will fail the whole CFA if you fail one section. If you fail the CFA you will not receive an appointment. Your RC MAY authorize you to retest but don't assume that. No one but admissions knows the minimum scores, but if you score average on each one, you will pass. Do not assume what is passing for another academy is passing for USMA. Each academy may have different passing scores.
    You can not be deemed qualified until your file is complete and your file is not complete until you pass the CFA.
    Talk to your MALO/FFR of your concern about the pull-up and/or flexed arm hang. Get their advise.
     
  17. kjang0613

    kjang0613 USMA 2015 Appointee

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    Thank you so much - that post was so helpful!
    Rep. Inslee does do the Principal nom with numbered alternates...
    If I was put on the waiting list (which I think I will be if I can get a nom), how many from the NWL usually get appts? And when would people on the NWL find out?
    I will be training very very hard for the CFA!
     
  18. buff81

    buff81 Moderator

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    West Point is required by law to take 150 candidates off of the NWL based on WCS. After those 150 slots have been filled, then WP can fill the rest of the class NOT based on the WCS. This is how they round out the class to meet their composition goals (scholors, athletes, minorities, leaders etc).

    How many from the NWL usually get appts?
    That is hard to say. Scoutpilot (a FFR) said earlier in this thread that he hears that the number will be around 350 that get pulled off the NWL this year.
    Last year, very few. They gave out so many LOAs and with rolling admission coupled with the high % of acceptances, the class was close to full very early. That is why you hear us admissions reps screaming to get your files completed early. Those last year that waited until the application deadline were pretty much out of luck even if they had stellar applications.

    I know you are looking for a thread of hope here thinking that you will be on the NWL. Candidates DO come off the NWL for WP. It is not like civilian colleges where when you are placed on the waiting list you might as well cross that school off your list. How many? At least 150. Above that? It depends.

    You have a very nice resume. You should be proud of your accomplishments. The one thing that I would suggest you do is to take the SAT again. Your scores are admissible but it is to your advantage to get them as high as you can. I highly recommend you take the ACT also. A lot of people do better on the ACT (make sure you take it 'with Writing'!) than SAT. You just might be one of those people! WP superscores which means they take the best subscores from each test each time you take it, so there is no reason not to take the ACT or SAT more than once.

    And when would people on the NWL find out?
    When you get a call from your Congressman or you get the BFE in the mail. That is not meant to be a snotty answer, but people are pulled off the NWL until the class is full. As people decline an appointment, WP goes to the NWL to pull off the next appointee. This COULD keep going until the day before R-Day. It has happened!

    I will be training very very hard for the CFA!
    Good! :thumb:
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2010
  19. kjang0613

    kjang0613 USMA 2015 Appointee

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    Ah thank you so much for all of this! It's so helpful :)

    "When you get a call from the congressmen..."
    When they call regarding the nomination or do they call if you get an appointment? Who would be the first to know if I received an appointment?
    And do congressmen/women let candidates know if they DID NOT receive a nomination?

    Thanks!!!!
     
  20. buff81

    buff81 Moderator

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    When you get a call from the congressmen..."
    When they call regarding the nomination or do they call if you get an appointment?

    The call from the Congressman that I am talking about is when they call you to tell you that you have an appointment. They love to do this!
    As far as notification of your nomination, I guess they could call you but the usual way of notification is by letter. You might see it on your portal first. My DS knew about his 2 Senator noms first through the portal and then he got the letters a few days later. He knew about his Representative's nom by letter first and then it was posted on the portal.

    Who would be the first to know if I received an appointment?
    When WP makes the decision to offer you the appointment, they will notify the Congressman (if your nom is a MOC one), as a courtesy, to give them the chance to tell you. They give the Congressman 72 hours to do this. If the Congressman does not tell you, then someone else can, like your FFR or your RC. OR you may just get the BFE in the mail as your notification.

    And do congressmen/women let candidates know if they DID NOT receive a nomination?
    I really don't know. That is up to the Congressman. The nominations are due Jan 31 so check your portal after that date. If you receive a nomination(s) it will be on your portal and visa versa. A nomination will appear on your portal before Jan 31 IF you MOC(s) turns their slate in before that date.
     

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