Letter prompts base to change flight suit rules

[bruno]

ALRIGHT _ NO MORE on Dependants. This thread has exhausted it's utility- time to sit down and stop posting unless you actually have some brilliant original thought on the wear of a flight suit.

If you can't read betweeen the lines- then I will be happy to spell out plainly- The thread needs to be dead.

[tpg]

Good Gosh, another thread with pages of squat!

Ok, I have an opinion on the topic of wearing a flight suit. I think the Colonel is right! I think it is time EVERY member of the Armed Services remember that they A) volunteered and B) they are professional Service Members. So they should both act and dresses like it.

I personally am so sick and tired of seeing Cammies, Utilities, Flight Suits, BDU’s or whatever they are called being worn as a standard duty uniform. They look terrible, look unprofessional and are just plain sloppy!

The argument of we are a (Insert service here) at war just don't cut it with me.

This every day is a casual Friday look is ridiculous. Each prescribed uniform has a purpose. It is about time each of the services got back to using each for their intended purpose!

As for the General in the photo wearing a flight suit….I would bet he understands when and where he should wear it. Generals usually do. However, if they do not there is also someone who will remind them, I know, I have done it!

[usnabgo08]

I personally am so sick and tired of seeing Cammies, Utilities, Flight Suits, BDU’s or whatever they are called being worn as a standard duty uniform. They look terrible, look unprofessional and are just plain sloppy!

tpg, I agree.

Not to specifically point out the Army, but why is a Soldier wearing ACUs during the pre-game ceremonies of the NBA Basketball Finals (he was being honored for his service), which is being broadcasted around the U.S.?

Similarly, in the same exact situation three nights ago, a Marine, who just returned from deployment that same day was wearing his Dress Blues.

I'm not sure what each services' protocol is, but unless you are in a war zone or area involved where the uniform is likely to get soiled, it seems out of place to wear ACUs/Cammies/BDUs/NWUs/MARPAT/etc when attending a high visible basketball game.

[AF6872]

They are professionals at what they do. Dress like it and be proud of the Uniform. JMHO. Think the Marines have a different Uniform Code for public appearance and travel?

[scoutpilot]

Originally Posted by jadler03

tpg, I agree.

Not to specifically point out the Army, but why is a Soldier wearing ACUs during the pre-game ceremonies of the NBA Basketball Finals (he was being honored for his service), which is being broadcasted around the U.S.?

Similarly, in the same exact situation three nights ago, a Marine, who just returned from deployment that same day was wearing his Dress Blues.

I'm not sure what each services' protocol is, but unless you are in a war zone or area involved where the uniform is likely to get soiled, it seems out of place to wear ACUs/Cammies/BDUs/NWUs/MARPAT/etc when attending a high visible basketball game.

Honestly? Because he can get away with it. The Army's senior NCO and officer leaders have let standards get flushed down the toilet, and raised a generation of young NCOs and officers who don't know what right looks like, and if they do, the system has stripped them of the muscle to get in a soldier's ass for being ate up. Marines trip over one another rushing to correct an ate up Marine. In the Army, you're a lone ranger if you're making corrections.

As much as I poke at them for some of their backward thinking and bravado, the Marines do standards and discipline much better than the other services, and that translates to pride.

Underage Marines get to drink on the USMC birthday. The average soldier cannot even tell you the Army birthday. Part of it is the difference between a corps and an army. Mostly it's about the people we raise.

[Bullet]

Originally Posted by tpg

Good Gosh, another thread with pages of squat!

Ok, I have an opinion on the topic of wearing a flight suit. I think the Colonel is right! I think it is time EVERY member of the Armed Services remember that they A) volunteered and B) they are professional Service Members. So they should both act and dresses like it.

I personally am so sick and tired of seeing Cammies, Utilities, Flight Suits, BDU’s or whatever they are called being worn as a standard duty uniform. They look terrible, look unprofessional and are just plain sloppy!

The argument of we are a (Insert service here) at war just don't cut it with me.

This every day is a casual Friday look is ridiculous. Each prescribed uniform has a purpose. It is about time each of the services got back to using each for their intended purpose!

As for the General in the photo wearing a flight suit….I would bet he understands when and where he should wear it. Generals usually do. However, if they do not there is also someone who will remind them, I know, I have done it!

tpg, if I understand your sentiment correctly, you think the everyday uniform for anyone in the service should be the Class As or Class Bs?

Maybe its just me, but I'd rather see them in those Utilities, flight suits, or cammies you see as sloppy and unprofessional. I see them as a very succinct visual display that the US military's purpose IS to fight, not look like we belong in some board room or the cubicles of some Fortune 500 company. I've seen the public's reaction at events like you mention above, televised as well, to BOTH squadron mates in flight suits, and to guys in their short sleeve blues. The public wanted their autographs when in flight suits (mostly because they just did the fly-over of the event) and thanked them profusely for their service. The guys in short sleeve blues got asked for directions, or if they could park someone's car for them. Guess they didn't recognize the wings on the guys' chests.

Me? I prefer the look of the Professional Warrior over the look of the Corporate Lawyer. To each his own, I guess.

I'm sure you'll agree with me that some out of shape slob in EITHER looks simply disgusting and foolish, no matter what uniform he is wearing.

As to the General in the photo? I'm POSITIVE he knows which time is appropriate to wear his flight suit, and which time isn't. And if you feel he's doing so when he isn't, I double-dog dare you to correct him on the spot!

[Bullet]

I will very publicly state unequivocally that the Marines in their dress uniform look Bad-A$$! If only every other dress uniform for the other services looked as sharp, then perhaps I wouldn't be so disinclined to their wear in public.

[scoutpilot]

Originally Posted by Bullet

I will very publicly state unequivocally that the Marines in their dress uniform look Bad-A$$! If only every other dress uniform for the other services looked as sharp, then perhaps I wouldn't be so disinclined to their wear in public.

I happen to be quite proud of this uniform.

[goaliedad]

Just a humble parent's thoughts on dress code and what is REALLY important (IMHO) about appearances.

Having spent a large part of my career in a suit and tie company that evolved through casual Fridays to "business casual" 5 days a week, and then moving onto shops that are very casual (jeans and non-collared shirts), I can say that no matter what people wear, you can always tell the true professionals by how they carry themselves regardless of what they wear.

That being said, I have observed that a large percentage of people who I knew in my days of "suit and tie" were more likely to adapt to casual posture and demeanor when dressed casually in a casual environment. To that end, implementing a more formal dress code will improve the professional demeanor of those who tend to follow the cues of the herd.

Taking this to the military, one might expect that dressing in ACUs, flight suits, etc. might encourage working postures and behaviors that would cue others to behave similarly. This would be true if the mentality is to respect the suit not the person wearing the suit. I hope our military is more about respecting the leader than the rank. If leadership is about how you carry yourself, uniform should be relatively unimportant in maintaining good order. If leadership is about how you look doing your job, then dress uniform is our only hope for preserving the appearance of professionalism.

I never really considered the ACU/flight suit issue before as the only times I've seen my daughter in uniform (ACUs), she carried herself (squared corners, etc) in a professional manner that I never see in civilian wear. And that was coming to visit me at my office (not a public building) after volunteering at the local State U ROTC office (not even her own brigade) last summer. It told me that she takes her "job" seriously and she is becoming a professional.

[NavyHoops]

We all have our opinions on this one and it is great that we all are passionate about our services. We are all right in our own views and there is nothing wrong with that. I had a unique experience in the Marine Corps as a non-flying type that served in a non-flying unit on the aviation side of the house. We wore cammies everyday, unless another uniform was prescribed for the day. We wore coveralls for the really dirty jobs, but never wore those anywhere except in the squadron. The General of the base at the time issued a very similiar policy as to the one referenced here. Unless a pilot was to be engaged in flying activities that day, they did not wear a flight suit. The reasoning for that was that the prescribed uniform of the day was cammies, and flight suits, overalls, maintanence uniforms, etc were for specific duties and to be used in the performance of those duties. He also stated that the Wings of Gold were what designated them as a pilot, not a flight suit. He also wanted to remind all Marines, they were Marines first and foremost, not pilots, air crew, NFOs, maintainers, etc. We also have a different mind set in the Marine Corps; everyone is there to support the Marine on the ground. It takes all Marines to accomplish the mission, yes we have our own rivalary about each MOS, but in the end we all recognize it takes everyone to accomplish the mission. This is engrained in us from day one. Just like every Marine of mine was required to have PT gear with them everyday, if a Marine needed one of these uniforms to complete their work they were required to have that with them also. Not really complicated, I mean heck we ask 20 something year old Lts(and even younger NCOs) to make life and death decisions, we can't entrust our Marines they will be somewhere with the appropriate uniform at the right time?

I also had the opportunity to serve as the OIC of a section in the Combined Air Operations Center. At one point I was the only Marine in the CAOC (I usually got asked what country I was from, which was rather amusing, especially since above my pocket it said U.S. Marines). I had members from every Service and even a few British Airmen in my section. I prescribed cammies as the uniform to create some uniformity and team sense in our section. I mixed our crews up and after a few weeks, the section really started to enjoy working with one another. We even PT'd together (the look on all my Airman's faces when a Marine says we will do PT is rather amusing). We actually did do some flight operations and when they were performing those duties they wore flight suits.

I guess the part that I don't understand is the wing part. Most of my friends are pilots and their goal was to earn their wings (even my friends who are SWOs or Submariners, their whole goal is to wear the SWO pin or dolphins and that is what is coveted). Why are the wings not the coveted part, but the flight suit? Maybe I am wrong and just don't see that. I know half the Air Force wears wings (and to be honest I can never tell them apart), why is that not the part that a pilot is proud to show off, but the flight suit?