SA required to accept at least one?

[futuremarinemom]

Assuming that a MOC has at least one 3Q'd nominee, is a service academy required to offer an appointment to that nominee? Or is it possible for a slate of nominees to be submitted and an offer not be extended to a single one on that slate?

[flieger83]

If a MOC has an opening at an SA, and nominates either a slate of 10 for a "competitive appointment" or designates a "Principal Nominee" with alternates...then one of those nominees WILL be appointed to fill that slot.

The only way that won't happen is if there are 10 for a "competitive appointment" and NONE of the nominee's meet the federally mandated minimum requirements for admission.

This is EXCEEDINGLY rare but has happened.

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83

[futuremarinemom]

That's what I thought. Now here's another question: Let's say the MOC has 2 slots open at a SA, but only 5 nominees (we're talking one of those under represented districts where there are very few applicants). Will both slots be filled from his/her slate of 5, or does he/she have to submit a slate for slot A and a slate for slot B?

[Pima]

The MOC does not have to submit a slate at all, let alone 2 slates. He just will leave that 2nd appointment for next yr. They are allowed UP TO 5 charges at any time, key words UP TO, not MUST HAVE.

If you read the link Luigi sent on another thread, you will see many MOC's in the districts you are speaking of leave the appointment vacant. usna1985 as a BGO was told that they have had 45 MOC's not nom anyone even when they have the ability to nom someone, anyone.

[usna1985]

Originally Posted by Pima

The MOC does not have to submit a slate at all, let alone 2 slates. He just will leave that 2nd appointment for next yr. They are allowed UP TO 5 charges at any time, key words UP TO, not MUST HAVE.

You may wonder why an MOC would leave a slot open? MOCs want to (and are encouraged by the SAs) to have at least one opening each year. If they don't, they can't nominate anyone and that tends to annoy candidates/their consituents.

So, here's how it would work . . . MOC A has 1 mid slotted to her in the USNA Classes of 2013, 2014, and 2015 and two in the Class of 2016 for her total of 5. Let's assume that the mid in the Class of 2015 decides to leave USNA before incurring his service obligation. MOC A now has 2 vacancies this year (one for the person in 2013 who will depart one way or another -- hopefully graduate) and one for the person in 2015 who left.

However, the MOC would be encouraged only to fill one vacancy this year. Why? If she fills both vacancies for the Class of 2017, when the Class of 2015 graduates, she will have no vacancy (MOC A will have 2 each in the Classes of 2016 and 2017 and one in 2018 leaving none for 2019). So, that one slot would likely stay open until the Class of 2019 -- meaning the MOC would only have 4 mids at USNA for a couple of years.

As you can see, it's complicated managing this can be tricky; the SAs, try to help but ultimately it's the MOC's call how to handle it.

The above said, it's VERY RARE for an MOC not to nominate anyone in a particular year if there is anyone qualified. See below . . .

you will see many MOC's in the districts you are speaking of leave the appointment vacant. usna1985 as a BGO was told that they have had 45 MOC's not nom anyone even when they have the ability to nom someone, anyone.

Just to be clear, this is not exactly what I said. The reason these 45 MOCs did not nominate anyone is that there were no applicants (at least to USNA) in their districts. If no one in their district applies for a nomination, they can't very well nominate anyone. So, it's not as if they chose not to make nominations; they couldn't nominate anyone b/c there was no one to nominate.

I'm not aware of MOCs refusing to/choosing not to nominate people when there are candidates they could nominate. Understand as well that those nominated by the MOC need not be competitive or even qualified. However, in order to obtain an appointment, the candidate must be 3 Q'ed.

[futuremarinemom]

It's hard to believe that there are districts that have no applicants at all, but I'm sure there are. I would think that a politician would want to promote the SA's and would proudly publicize the constituents that they nominate who receive appointments. But what do I know?

[Pima]

My apologies for mis-reading your post about the 45 MOCs.

To be honest that is just mind boggling, and it makes me wonder how these areas fare regarding enlistment. Are those areas also hard pressed to get enlisted members?

Not trying to divert the thread. Just find it interesting.

Back on topic.

Yrs ago I was offered a position to work at the Pentagon as an AFA liaison to the Hill. The job was to track all of the cadets at the AFA. They actually have walls of color coded cards for every charged cadet, under every MOC's name. An MOC staffer can call at anytime and ask how many do we have that are C4C's, C3Cs, C2Cs, and C1Cs. They in turn can give them not only the yr groups, but their names too.

One part of the job was to brief every June/July and Jan. the MOC's. They would be informed of how many are charged to them, and their yr groups, plus how many were available to be charged. The brief would also include the procedures for nominating and mandated time line dates for nom submission to the SAs.

Jan. was the review of how many slates they submitted, and how if nothing changed how many they would have available next yr. This becomes a factor in election yrs because the charging is not to the MOC, but to their district or state. For example, Sen. Dole lost her seat a few yrs ago, Sen. Hagan took office in Jan., and she needed to know how many she had available for the following yr. Outgoing MOC's still submit their slates, so this has no impact upon the candidate, so don't fret. Whoever you submit to now, will be the one that makes the decision, it does not impact your life at all.

MOC's are not flying by the seat of their pants. Their decision to nom or not nom comes with the full understanding how many slates they can submit. What they choose to do is their choice.

[Pima]

future,

I think it is more about socio-economical issues that can play into the equation.

1st example: High teenage birth rate.

Now that might seem like not an issue, but the fact is you cannot attend an SA with a dependent. If a great applicant, 3 Q, had a child as a 16 yo., and their name is on the birth certificate, they can't go to an SA. There is no reason to submit their name.

2nd example: Family finances

That 3Q'd applicant may also need to work to help the family out financially. They in turn decide to go ROTC scholarship, so they can go to school, work and get a ROTC stipend.

Going to an SA is great, but if they are helping to keep a roof over their families head they know that there is a better option with ROTC.


That leaves the MOC with noms that may not be 3 Q'd. The problem for those areas are not getting into an SA, but staying in from an academic perspective.

AFA 24 ACT V or 490 CR will hurt the cadet/mid from an academic standpoint when the rest are hitting in the 30 or mid 600's. College moves a lot faster than HS, and SA's move at a faster pace than a traditional college. They would need prep., but if the MOC noms that slate with 5, the SA will take them if they are 3 Q'd (24 is AFA mins), and send them straight to the SA, not the prep.

Should the MOC nom a kid knowing that this is Ivy league education and they don't have the foundation even for middle/lower tier colleges?

In your opinion would you do that to a kid? Nom just for the sake of noming?

The whole application process is painful. Tons of essays, interviews and medical exams, why put somebody through it just so you as an MOC can say I nom'd someone. I never was a Rangel fan, but on this one issue, I respect him for holding true to the SA's what is expected at an SA, and not using his ability to nom so he could publicize the noms. Their districts don't care about this issue, they care about getting grants for books and computers in their schools.

[usna1985]

USNA told us that the main reason that most of the districts without applicants have none is that people there aren't familiar with USNA (or the other SAs). Now that may seem strange or farfetched to those of us who grew up in a military family or lived near a SA, etc.

But consider someone in the middle of Kansas who has no ties to the military and no one from his/her school has ever applied to a SA. Or someone in the inner city with the same issues.

The fact is that there are places in this country where high school kids don't know about the SAs. And, in some places such as the inner city, if you're a highly qualified student, colleges are lining up with offers of scholarships, etc. And we're told that, to the extent these kids have heard of a SA, they or their parents think it's like enlisting. They don't really understand what a SA is about.

This is the reason that USNA started its "outreach" program several years ago -- to introduce the Academy to these students in the hopes that once they hear about USNA, they may at least consider applying.

[futuremarinemom]

Good points, Pima. Thank you for your insight, usna1985.