Athletics, professionalism, academics. It is all a balance. If the Academy were to make demands solely on academics, everyone might as well go ROTC. Fleming is ranting in the NY Times right now because Plebes are coming to his class not prepared because they had to clean their room and get their uniform ready for an inspection instead. It is all about priorities and accepting the consequencves of one's decisions.DMeix said:
USNA football player dismissed!
- Thread starter agolson
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Mongo has it right- it is all a balance and I suspect that virtually no one around USNA is particularly happy with how the whole Curry incident has been handled. The appearance that they have across the board lost control of their honor concept is a major concern but it is good to see that they are addressing this as well and one hopes that those changes put the honor concept back on the right foot (and Curry is just one of many incidents that alums and interested outsiders can point to.)
But Fleming is out to lunch- his argument is basically that what will best serve USNA and the Navy is an academy that looks much like Williams or Middlebury or St Johns (Md)- that is a small exclusive Liberal Arts college which picks students pretty much on the basis of their HS transcripts, SAT scores and generally cerebral HS performance. But is that the stuff that future military leadership really looks for? OR is it the balance that Mongo is speaking of? Fleming is beating a long standing drum- BUT HE IS WRONG. The option is not either cretins or Einsteins at USNA but rather that they maintain a balance to develop well educated leaders who possess all of the attributes needed for military leadership. Intellectual curiosity, Physical prowess, decisiveness, leadership presence with a sense of honor and commitment are what is needed. IF we have academies who are turning out students who are academically below average then we have an issue- but if we are turning out academically talented graduates who posess those attributes then the Academies are doing their jobs. Fleming may be the one who in fact is not doing his job here and is publishing because he is an incessant publicity hound protected by tenure in an institution that he has spent 23 years misunderstanding.
But Fleming is out to lunch- his argument is basically that what will best serve USNA and the Navy is an academy that looks much like Williams or Middlebury or St Johns (Md)- that is a small exclusive Liberal Arts college which picks students pretty much on the basis of their HS transcripts, SAT scores and generally cerebral HS performance. But is that the stuff that future military leadership really looks for? OR is it the balance that Mongo is speaking of? Fleming is beating a long standing drum- BUT HE IS WRONG. The option is not either cretins or Einsteins at USNA but rather that they maintain a balance to develop well educated leaders who possess all of the attributes needed for military leadership. Intellectual curiosity, Physical prowess, decisiveness, leadership presence with a sense of honor and commitment are what is needed. IF we have academies who are turning out students who are academically below average then we have an issue- but if we are turning out academically talented graduates who posess those attributes then the Academies are doing their jobs. Fleming may be the one who in fact is not doing his job here and is publishing because he is an incessant publicity hound protected by tenure in an institution that he has spent 23 years misunderstanding.
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Mongo- I'm not saying we only need intellectuals here. I strongly agree with the need for balance. My statement above is meant to get that across: Solely focusing on the field and not being able to apply that same focus to the classroom is something that the military doesn't need, but the Academy (at least USNA) is letting it slide and seemingly doing everything it can to accomodate academic mediocrity in favor of athletic success.
The fact is that when we graduate, we're neither intellectuals nor athletes. We're supposed to be leaders of warriors. In that respect, yes, I agree with the notion that the Academy is unbalanced and has lost its way. Look at how many football games we have to attend (~6 x 4 years) vs the number of days spent doing small-arms training (1 day over PS).
The fact is that when we graduate, we're neither intellectuals nor athletes. We're supposed to be leaders of warriors. In that respect, yes, I agree with the notion that the Academy is unbalanced and has lost its way. Look at how many football games we have to attend (~6 x 4 years) vs the number of days spent doing small-arms training (1 day over PS).
So physical prowess is now (again) a virtue at the academy?
BTW, it seems this ousted football player had only one from Bruno's list.
On the subject of USNA football players
A very strange story...
http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2010/05/marine_cheating_052510w/
I can't imagine why someone would work thier way through any commissioning program not least four years at the USNA just to go and do something as silly as this!
Football ref is about half way down...
A very strange story...
http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2010/05/marine_cheating_052510w/
I can't imagine why someone would work thier way through any commissioning program not least four years at the USNA just to go and do something as silly as this!
Football ref is about half way down...
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Emsa On the subject of USNA football playersSo physical prowess is now (again) a virtue at the academy?
BTW, it seems this ousted football player had only one from Bruno's list.
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Well they surely didn't possess a sense of honor which is what I take USNA to task for. The idea that you can "remediate" a basic issue of integrity in a 20 year old is just wrong I believe and USNA's policy for the last 5 years or so of doing so has been what really ought to be the scandal- not Fleming's academic rant about SAT scores for appointees
While totally unrelated to the subject of this thread, I just wanted to point out that St. John's (Annapolis) admissions is based almost exclusively on performance on numerous entrance essays. I don't think the SAT is required. It is a weird little school for sure. All of the classes are done in the "tutorial" style, which harkens back to the system at Oxford/Cambridge etc. I spent a summer at Oxford while I was at VMI, and personally enjoyed the close interaction with the professors; however, they really do scrutinize you beyond what you get in a typical classroom setting. At St. John's, there are no grades, and the classwork is based on reading the "great books" at the source (i.e. no textbooks). It's very writing intensive, or at least that is my understanding. You can always spot a St. John's kid in Annapolis, just like you can always spot a mid. St. John's has their own uniform...very beatnick chic. It's interesting that the two schools are so close, but so VERY VERY different.
Luigi59
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They may be related.
Those who have worked hard in school, devoting years to further an academic resume to gain acceptance to the USNA (a non D1 revenue-generating athlete), went through the MOC nominating process, and sweated out their appointment acceptance may be more inclined to follow the rules than someone approached/recruited in their senior year of high school to play football, without regard to their below-normal academic qualifications (oh, and by the way, you'll be following a strict regimental military system as well).
hornetguy
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This made me smile. The USAFA Scholar's program is modeled on St. John's. No textbooks, seminar style, and writing intense.
I'd give a thumbs up to that model. Back to your regularly scheduled thread.
