ROTC Questions

I'm deciding between Army or Air Force ROTC but I have some conflicting thoughts that need to be cleared.

1. AROTC, ex: If Fordham University is the Host University for ROTC in the area, but I attend New York University, must I travel to Fordham every single time for PT and ROTC Classes? Or are PT held at New York University but ROTC Classes are held at Fordham?

2. AFROTC, ex: Same concept as the first question but Manhattan College instead of Fordham University. (AF Recruiter told me that I need to go to Manhattan College for even PT when the school I plan on attending is on the other side of town, which is pretty insane. But an AROTC Cadet told me that PT is held at the university I attend)

3. AROTC, What are exactly Partner Schools? It is a list of select schools from a list of schools that students at following Universities can take AROTC classes from. Does that mean that Type 1 Scholarships can be handed out to Partner schools rather than the original rule where Type 1 Scholarships are only handed out to if you decide to attend the Host University?

http://www.goarmy.com/content/goarm...sults.html?stateName=NY&schoolName=&x=23&y=15

That's the site if you scroll down to Fordham University that I'm quite confused with. Because it states that Type 1 (Full Tuition) Scholarships can be handed out to non-host schools such as New York University or Columbia University.


Topics such as where classes and PT are held at which and which universities and which Scholarships at which and which universities are still mind boggling for me. The fact that I'm deciding between Air Force and Army ROTC as a future Engineer (not sure in which field yet) major is something big to consider because of school costs and also traveling wise.

This is all I can think of right now, but any insight on these questions will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

First off, YES, you must travel to the host university for PT and Lead labs. That is just the fact. Some dets have an exception for PT, but those are for the cadets who score very, very high on their PFT. This is at the luxury of the det., so I would not assume that you would score high enough to qualify or that the det would allow it.

They will still expect you to do PT, but it is on your own time and not with the corps. If they allow it, realize that you will have to maintain that level, because you will be re-tested every semester.

PT is only one aspect, you would still have to go xtown for Lead lab, so you will still be commuting. Additionally, cadets get jobs at the det, which means you will attend det meetings as a staff member, at our DS's school that occurs Fri am at 7, so now you would have 3 days a week. Most dets have mandatory volunteer things...usually something like cleaning up the football or basketball stadiums after games, so you might have to commute 3 times in one week, 4 if you have a det job .

Next, Type 1 is very competitive for the AF, and just because you are going engineering, does not equate to being one of the 20% that will be awarded this scholarship. The candidates that I know of who have received Type 1, have had amazing records. Not trying to be a downer, just saying.

Remember the AFROTC scholarship is not like NROTC or AROTC, it is not tied to the school det. The AFROTC scholarship is awarded from a national perspective. You could go to a det where 10 have a type 1, or a det where nobody has a type 1. It is all about the singular candidate's package. There is no per se quota for any school.

Finally, you need to think about after college when you will be AD full time 365 days a yr, not the 4 yrs when 30 weeks out of the yr you will be commuting 2x a week.

The AF and the Army are 2 different breeds. The Army jokes about the AF being the "corporate" branch because they work 8-4. The AF has no problem with that being their descriptor, and they even joke that to them PT in their world is lifting a beer after playing 18 holes of golf.

Ask yourself why the AF, why the Army? There has to be something in the bottom of your gut that makes one more attractive than the other.

Bullet flew for the AF, but did 2 tours as a joint officer with the Army. He can tell you they really are night and day. Neither is better, neither is worse, they are just very different in their mindset.

Take the time and investigate what you want to do when you get into the AD world, don't make a decision because 60 days out of the yr you will have to commute.

People do that commute a lot, at our DS's school which is near DC, but a 45 minute commute by rail, there are many NROTC mids that do exactly what you are being asked to do. His AFROTC det gets kids from Del, WV, DC and VA because his school is the host. Traveling xtown is a pain, just imagine being one of these kids traveling 1 hr by car across state lines to attend. It happens.

The branch should be your 1st consideration, the school the next and commuting for PT the very least of your concerns.
I would suggest you contact the ROTC programs at both colleges or both branches. Talk to them about your concerns. They are really the ones to give you a true feeling regarding the xtown commute. Also ask the command to get you in contact with one of their xtown cadets so you can talk to them one on one.
Good luck.

Pima said:

First off, YES, you must travel to the host university for PT and Lead labs.

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This isn't exactly correct. Some detachments only require you to attend the host university's Aerospace/Lead labs and allow all cadets that attend some distant partner universities to do PT on their own. These cadets are generally required to turn in reports each week stating that they have done X hours of PT. The one partner/host university (AFROTC) that I know of that allows this is an hour drive from one to the other and no public transportation is available. I would "assume" that like Pima says, failure to perform adequately on the PT tests would not only jeopardize the convenience of doing PT on your own but also your scholarship.

As has been mentioned numerous time for all ROTC programs, attending school at a host university has some distinct advantages over enrolling at partner schools. You seriously need to consider a number of factors (besides transportation) before committing to attending a partner school.

Good luck!

First off, YES, you must travel to the host university for PT and Lead labs

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Careful there --- some of these schools are 50 miles from the host school.

For Army ROTC - you really need to call the Battalion and talk to them. Many times the class, PT and labs are held at your own college and the only time they all get together is for FTX.
For the answer to your entire post as it pertains to AROTC you really need to call the ROTC Battalion at Fordam and talk to them - that is what they are there for. Seriously! They don't bite and would love to hear from you.
Give them a call and report back

Let's remember Fordham is not 50 miles away. NY schools are like the DC area, there is a lot of transportation methods, but none of them are necessarily a snap. UMD is a very large college, but NROTC does not exist there, these mids travel into DC. GMU is a large university in NoVA, but the cadets must travel to UMDCP. By mileage they may be 15-20 miles at the tops, but because of traffic, like NYC, that really means 2-3 times that in travel time.

This may come off harsh, but the truth is, a ton of people do this, it is just the way it is, and to the military it was your choice to accept a college that was not a host, especially for AFROTC since, as we all know AFROTC scholarships are tied to the cadet, not the school.

AF Recruiter told me that I need to go to Manhattan College for even PT when the school I plan on attending is on the other side of town, which is pretty insane.

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Second, the AFROTC recruiter TOLD him YES, he would be required to do PT at Manhattan, even if he was going to Fordham. In other words, he has been given the answer by the AFROTC. Where he mixes up the scenario is that he was told by AROTC cadet that is not true.

My point is the AFROTC program is not the AROTC program, the AROTC program may allow them to not attend, while the AFROTC may require it. You can't take the leap that both act the same. They don't they are different branches.

We also can't take the leap that one college allows it for PT, means another college will either. ROTC dets are commanded by AD military members, Commanders change during your ROTC career, regs will change. Don't walk in saying that because it is so now, it will be so for 4 yrs.

As JAM and I have both stated talk to the leadership in the det/bn. We can all give anecdotal info, but none of us have kids at NYU/Manhattan or Fordham.

I am assuming you live in that area, I would suggest that if you have the opportunity to do a campus visit, contact the command prior and set up an apptmt to talk to them and some cadets while you are there.

Just as branches differ, so do dets. The command will be more than happy to have you talk to them about their vision as a ROTC det/bn. Our DS did this, and between talking to the command and then POCs (jrs/srs) he felt that he knew he wanted to go there.

There is a fallacy that ROTC is just about attending classes and PT. It is much more than that, but it is tied to what you pony up to the table. If you want it to be do your time and collect your scholarship check, that's fine. If you want it to be about getting your feet wet in the military world, than you will find that you put in a lot of time into the program.

Some ROTC dets have military fraternities, some don't. Some ROTC dets hang out in their lounge during class breaks, some don't. Some ROTC dets have social nights weekly to build camaraderie, some don't. Some ROTC dets are so large you are just a number with limited job opportunities, some are small and you are always tasked with a position in the cadre.

In other words, no cadre is a cookie cutter, and you need to expect that in your decision process. The more info you know the better you will be able to make a logical, rational decision.

Finally, AGAIN, you also need IMHPO, to not use PT requirements as the hammer for accepting AROTC or AFROTC. You need to investigate which branch you want to serve in first and foremost. Life will stink as an AD member if you hate the branch you chose was based on being xtown requirements. There is no way around it, you will owe time to them, 365 days a yr for at least 4 yrs. Fast forward yourself, pretend you are 22, ask yourself, what branch is more intriguing to you from an engineering standpoint.

Good luck

OBTW I think we are also missing one final point, the OP talks about Type 1, FULL RIDE. There is an additional question, if the OP gets a Type 1 from the Army, but 7 from the AF, is the AF in play at all? Is the real motivating factor the scholarship type or is it the school or is it commute?

Janie Raincloud, but nobody knows the OP's stats. The AROTC scholarship board is not the same as the AFROTC board. AFROTC is a national pool. I would never say to any candidate that just because they are going engineering and 95% of the type 1's go that route, that they would get a Type 1. The fact is only 20% of all of the scholarships awarded are Type 1. Add in the fact that many candidates use ROTC as plan B for the SAs, the stats are very competitive because for AFROTC it is NATIONAL.

Those factors are another reason to contact the dets. Be frank and honest with them about your academic standing and ask are you in the academic parameters of the traditional cadet that attends their det on a Type 1.

Also, we all know there is one last person they really can get hard core info regarding their chances for Type 1...their ALO. Their ALO will write a rec for the scholarship board. They can use them as a measuring stick regarding how they rack and stack against their hometown competition. ALO's are the most underused asset for guidance and advice.

Blanket statements do not work and that is what I was responding to.

Pima - read the link provided by the OP. Colleges that are in the Fordham Battalion include Marist college, Vassar college and Mount Saint Mary's College - these are all over 75 miles from Fordham!!!

You make some good points and this is why he needs to speak with the Battalion in regards to the policies. He needs to call Fordham.

JAM,

I will admit, I didn't look into the list of schools, Manhattan and NYU are not in that realm, so it is moot for the OP.

Scout just posted a great article on a ROTC thread, but I think it ties nicely to this OP's post

http://theithacan.org/4484

Cornell University’s Army ROTC is affiliated with Ithaca College, SUNY-Cortland, Binghamton University and Elmira College. The Army ROTC is associated with 273 host programs like Cornell University and 1,100 affiliate schools like the college.

Like the other 14 of the 17 Ithaca College Army ROTC students with scholarships, sophomore Hunter Tom relies on Cornell’s Army ROTC aid to help attend college.

Every Monday, Wednesday and Friday Tom said he wakes up at 5 a.m. for training courses at Cornell. By the time he arrives at the college, he is hungry and sleep deprived, but must go to class, work on homework and do it all over again.

Despite these difficulties, Tom said he doesn’t mind.

“I thought I would have to endure it solely for the fact of paying for school,” he said. “But now I’ve actually come to enjoy it.”

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It drives home the fact that he will not be the unique cadet.

You are right - at NYU he probably has to go to Fordham.... but you made a blanket statement and that is what I was responding to.

Ithaca and Cornell are in the same TOWN.
The cadets at Binghamton and Elmira don't drive to Ithaca each day for PT. The distance is 50 miles. This is all dependent on the Battalion and proximity as well as the numbers of cadets at the outlying colleges.
Lehigh University serves a whole bunch of colleges - where there are enough cadets they will have class and PT at a "cross town" affiliate. When my oldest was a Cadet her Battalion was about 15 miles away from her school- the freshmen and sophomores had class at their college while the juniors and seniors traveled. It is all variable.

It's a good article though!

It is all variable.

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EXACTLY!

That is why I believe we both agree, we can give 100 anecdotes, but none of them pertain to NYU/Fordham or Manhattan.

We both agree call the det/BN.

You see the Army and AF can agree when it comes to what is best for ANY military member.

I say Amen to several suggestions above to call the battalion.

When my son talked to the recruiting officer at Fordham Army ROTC, he was told that they won't take anybody with CR+M lower than 1220 or something like that. That was surprising since, say, 1200 would have put a candidate in the top 10-15% of some of the cross town affiliate schools.

This is just one example of why it is SO IMPORTANT to talk to the local battalion officers. Suppose a candidate has a score below the cut off mentioned. There is NO point for her/him to even waste a spot on the school of intent list for Fordham or any cross town affiliate schools of this battalion.

Don't guess. Call. Call. Call. Not just about PTs and what now. But to get any much information we you need.

(P.S. My son did not put any cross affiliate town schools except one, which is only a couple of miles from the host school which can be reached via a convenient metro in 2-3 minutes. Fordham is in Bronx. It takes 50 minutes using subway from the lower Manhattan. Imagine doing that a few times every week. AND that's with a convenient public transportation).

Yes and No.
My battalion has all three of the situations mentioned.
1)PT at Host Schools and a few schools around it.
2)PT at another school 30 mins away for that school and the schools around it. They come to us for leadership lab.
3)We actually have "sister" battalion that we only see at FTX as well. They run almost completely separately, but are considered part of our unit.

Calling the ROTC Cadre would be a good step