Number of Nominations

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USAFA

5-Year Member
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Hi everybody.

I live in South Dakota where we only have one MOC. My question is this: If I have one MOC and two senators, and supposing that each one has one open nomination slot (4 already at the specific academy), is it only possible for three kids from SD to go to each of the Service Academies (3 to USNA, 3 to USAFA, etc...)?

I only ask because USAFA is my first preference, but many many kids from my state want to go specifically to USAFA (Air Force being their one and only choice). So do the Academies ever take more than five nominations at the school at one time from each rep, or is it possible for more than 3-5 to gain a nomination to a service academy?

The only solution I could think of that would allow for multiple nominations to be given out were if the Service Academies reviewed the possible nominated candidates and chose which ones to offer appointments to based on the current number of Cadets from each state.

I'm sorry if this post is confusing. I would be happy to elaborate on any parts that may seem confusing. Thanks for the quick responses. I appreciate it immensely.
 
USAFA said:
My question is this: If I have one MOC and two senators, and supposing that each one has one open nomination slot (4 already at the specific academy), is it only possible for three kids from SD to go to each of the Service Academies (3 to USNA, 3 to USAFA, etc...)?
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As I understand the process, it is possible for each of your MOCs to have a maximum of 5 of their nominations at each of the SAs at any one time. Other South Dakota candidates may attend any of the SAs but their noms will have to be "charged" to another source.

Check out the following thread for some S. Dakota reassurance:
http://www.serviceacademyforums.com/showthread.php?t=15250
 
Thanks, that link was pretty informative.

I saw quite a bit of 'South Dakota' reference in there but I didn't quite understand the usage.

Are you implying that South Dakota applicants have a better/easier chance of being appointed? (I would LOVE to hear this. It would definitely give me some reassurance:rolleyes:! Pretty nervous at this point in the game)
 
The OP on that thread was from S. Dakota. Whether you have a better/easier chance would depend (IMHO) on how many applicants are competing for the available noms in your state. I would think that states with smaller populations and the same number of MOCs as the larger population states (3) would have less competition for the available noms. Of course you would also need to weigh in the "demand" for certain SAs. For instance many of the states close to the USNA might have more applicants applying there than the USAFA.
Good luck!:thumb:
 
aglages said:
I would think that states with smaller populations and the same number of MOCs as the larger population states (3) would have less competition for the available noms.
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Theoretically, there is one MOC for roughly the same population.......SD, WY, MT only have one representative. Other states, like Texas, where I live, have many representatives. But the amount of folks determines the amount of representatives. So, competition for a MOC's nomination, at least population wise, is roughly the same across the country.

aglages said:
Of course you would also need to weigh in the "demand" for certain SAs. For instance many of the states close to the USNA might have more applicants applying there than the USAFA.
Good luck!:thumb:
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States with a large military presence tend to have more young men and women vying for SA slots. States with a coastline seem to have more demand for USNA.........states around Colorado have hefty demand for USAFA. Somewhere on these forums is a list of "under represented districts." I have posted it before. It is dated, probably a couple years old. A BGO put it out there maybe two years ago. Search and see if you find it. Could give you an idea which districts are/were "under represented" at USNA at that time.

You will often see posters talk on this forum that a candidate from, say southern California might not even get a nomination, while a candidate from Wyoming (SD, MT, some lightly populated place) could sail right in. Although the mere fact that USNA and the other SA's have candidates representing all 435 districts (is that number right?) nationwide guarantees geographic diversity, considering that the class size is roughly 1250 at USNA the last couple years, that leaves 815 slots to spread out in the allegedly more competitive districts.........surely the top three candidates in Wyoming are just a competitive as those from other states. There's probably just more of them in "other" states. And, hence, 815 more chances for USNA to find them an appointment.....
 
jennyp said:
Theoretically, there is one MOC for roughly the same population.......SD, WY, MT only have one representative. Other states, like Texas, where I live, have many representatives. But the amount of folks determines the amount of representatives. So, competition for a MOC's nomination, at least population wise, is roughly the same across the country.
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Perhaps I have misunderstood the acronym...MOC. I thought it stood for Member Of Congress. If that is the case then a US Senator would also be a MOC. My understanding is that all US States have two Senators regardless of population. Therefor a state with a smaller population would have as many Senators as a larger state. Of course US Representatives are apportioned by population and each state should have approximately the same number citizens to US Reps. If I am mistaken I would certainly appreciate someone helping me with a civics / math lesson.
 
jennyp said:
You will often see posters talk on this forum that a candidate from, say southern California might not even get a nomination, while a candidate from Wyoming (SD, MT, some lightly populated place) could sail right in. Although the mere fact that USNA and the other SA's have candidates representing all 435 districts (is that number right?) nationwide guarantees geographic diversity, considering that the class size is roughly 1250 at USNA the last couple years, that leaves 815 slots to spread out in the allegedly more competitive districts.........surely the top three candidates in Wyoming are just a competitive as those from other states. There's probably just more of them in "other" states. And, hence, 815 more chances for USNA to find them an appointment.....
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435 US Reps plus 100 US Senators each with 5 candidates at the USNA= 669 average per year. The remaining slots are not all available for the "allegedly" more competitive districts. The following thread discusses how those noms are/can be used:
http://www.serviceacademyforums.com/showthread.php?t=13510
 
Plus remember that 100 appointees will be Presidential, and that is not available for every candidate. Plus, there are AD (enlisted) that can get appointments based on their career, and ROTC also is allowed a specific number.

That pool becomes a lot less when you add those numbers in.

So do the Academies ever take more than five nominations at the school at one time from each rep, or is it possible for more than 3-5 to gain a nomination to a service academy?
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As stated earlier certain areas are more competitive, but as I just illustrated it is possible for a slate of 10 to all go, just because they all could be charged differently. Charging the nom is the real issue. You need a nom to get in, you want as many noms as you can get, but even if you just have 1 it doesn't mean that they will charge you to that MOC.
 
aglages said:
I would think that states with smaller populations and the same number of MOCs as the larger population states (3) would have less competition for the available noms.
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MOC indeed means Member of Congress. I was thinking in terms of representatives. Gaining a representative's nomination means competing with roughly the same population numbers, whether you are from NY, CA, TX or WY. The Senator's nominations, however, is much more competitive in larger populated states than those with few people.

The slots not directly charged to a MOC are parsed out in various ways. I get that and the thread you referenced explains it well. However, what I am meaning, is that if there are more competitive candidates from larger population states, they will likely make up the bulk of those "other" charged appointments. Those appointment slots are not geographically restricted.
 
And always, there is much hand wringing over this by candidates and their families. An understandable desire to fully grasp the process.

However, and I have said this before, in response to the age old question "Are my scores on SAT/ACT good enough?" among other questions, the answer is nearly always IT DEPENDS. Maybe there's five top notch candidates from Wyoming in a given year. Three slots available to appoint and charge to MOC's........should those candidates assume that since they are from a less populated area, they can slide in.........not so fast!

We need to encourage each and every candidate to assemble the most competitve package possible. Because it is all relative, in any given year, to the candidates in your representative district, your state, and the nation. And you, the candidate, have no control over any of that. Only the strength of your own package.
 
However, and I have said this before, in response to the age old question "Are my scores on SAT/ACT good enough?" among other questions, the answer is nearly always IT DEPENDS
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I agree, but to add onto your answer, I always say there is only 1 100% answer I can ever give...if you don't apply than you have 100% chance of not getting a nom.

Candidates should give the best packet they can give, but they also should realize there are subjective aspects that go into the equation too, such as recs., essays and ECS. A candidate can have a perfect SAT score, but never get a nom, because the MOC may say, that the candidate is academically gifted, but would score low on the WCS because all they have on their resume is school. Thus, they may say I am not going to give that nom to them, but to the lower scoring student who was the Class President and Captain for LAX.
 
USAFA said:
Are you implying that South Dakota applicants have a better/easier chance of being appointed? (I would LOVE to hear this. It would definitely give me some reassurance! Pretty nervous at this point in the game)
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aglages said:
The OP on that thread was from S. Dakota. Whether you have a better/easier chance would depend (IMHO) on how many applicants are competing for the available noms in your state. I would think that states with smaller populations and the same number of MOCs as the larger population states (3) would have less competition for the available noms. Of course you would also need to weigh in the "demand" for certain SAs. For instance many of the states close to the USNA might have more applicants applying there than the USAFA.
Good luck!:thumb:
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jennyp said:
Three slots available to appoint and charge to MOC's........should those candidates assume that since they are from a less populated area, they can slide in.........not so fast!
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I don't think my answer to the OP indicated that he could "slide in" because he was from a less populous state.

Let's try this: Assume you are the OP and are in the top 10% of all applicants to the USNA (10% of 18K). So he is in the top 1800 of all applicants (must be a great candidate). If you had a choice (which you do not), would you rather compete for a nomination in S. Dakota (2 Senators for 800,000 people) or California (2 Senators for 37,000,000)?
Which state would you clearly have an advantage when competing for a MOC nom?
 
Thank you everyone for your responses.

To clarify: I am from South Dakota (one of the smaller, less represented states) I do understand that the number or reps is directly proportional to the population of the state. It was never my intention to imply that residing in a less populated state would make me more competitive. In fact, I know that there are at least five kids applying from my high school class to USAFA alone. And yes, we have two senators (like everybody else) and one congressman (woman in congress is called a congressman or a congresswoman? I digress..). I do realize that I am competing with a nation wide pool, and I like to think that I am pretty competitive within that pool. Once again, it was never my intention to imply that candidates from less populated states can 'slide' into a nomination.

Thank you all once again for your informative and educated responses. This is, with out a doubt, the best resource for prospective admission to a Service Academy :biggrin:
 
Thank you all once again for your informative and educated responses. This is, with out a doubt, the best resource for prospective admission to a Service Academy
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I am sure that you are competitive in Nation wide pool but with this current system of requiring a nomination from your Congressperson or US Senator you may never get the answer. I hope you do get a nomination and are appointed to USAFA. Good luck!

Your situation is more evidence that requiring a nomination from MOCS (Senators or Representative ) to have your application "entertained" by 4 of the 5 Service Academies, is patently unfair.

The US Coast Guard Academy does not require a MOC nomination to submit an application to the Academy. The USGCA admissions officers decide what the make up of the incoming class will be. No need to jump the MOC hurdle. There is no doubt that the USCGA is using whole candidate scores in conjunction with "geographic diversity" among other subjective considerations to configure the best possible incoming class of recruits..

The other 4 Service Academies would be far better off taking the lead from the USCGA academy when it comes to the admissions process. Not likely, since the MOCs, most of whom care little about this process, would ever let it go, since it generates constituency interest in their office.
 
USAFA said:
Once again, it was never my intention to imply that candidates from less populated states can 'slide' into a nomination.
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I don't think any of your posts came across that way. You asked for information and clarification about whether I thought "South Dakota applicants have a better/easier chance of being appointed". I attempted to give you both. Obviously others may have different opinions than mine (incorrect though they may be). Either way...Good Luck:thumb:..and you might want to review the following thread:
http://www.serviceacademyforums.com/showthread.php?t=15359
 
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