Army Commissioning OML Statistics

We just had a presentation on these numbers so if anyone has any specific questions, ask and I might be able to help.
 
Josh, just curious if it was mentioned in the presentation you saw, but are they removing the CWST entirely or just from it's weighting?
 
goaliedad said:
(hint, gojack this might be right up your alley!)
Click to expand...

Here is another Accessions Brief, it goes into more detail, glossary etc., LINK

The numbers change every year, but if the idea is to get an understanding of the Accessions process, this one is worth muddling through.
But it's tweaked every year, so expect changes.

Basics as I understand it:
-Graduating/commissioning class is put on national OML (40%GPA, 45%leadership, 15%Physical)
-Everyone volunteering for AR or NG gets it.,
-top 20%(0r 10%?) on the OML are DMG's "Distinguished Military Graduate" they get their first branch choice.
-Army needs 'X' number of officers, after ed delays, NG, DMG, G2G, Nurse, SMC etc are taken out, a cut off line is drawn - on the OML - fall below the cutoff and you are mandatory NG/AR.
-The ones left between DMG and AD Cut Off - compete for assignments, and it's very complicated, you can extend service contract to get preferred assignment, grad school etc (horse trading) you list assignments by preference - lots of rules and fine print.

Notes:
The Active Duty Cutoff Line that sets the minimum scoring for active duty selection, varies every year depending on the needs of the Army.

Active Duty Cutoff Line is indicator of relative competitiveness to go AD,
previous yr = 68.5 and this yr = 71.5 means its getting tougher to go AD

Requests for ed delay are boarded separately (med, law school etc)
(and then go on the OML when they eventually graduate?)

hopefully some experts will chime in here, and correct my mistakes
 
Well we still did CWST as a lab this year. Of course that might change, but I think it just isn't part of OML anymore. I hope we still do it because it was one of my favorite labs.

Gojack here's how I understand it from a slide not in the online presentation.
1) DMG
2)Slots are filled going down the list. Each branch takes a specific number from the top 50% of the OML. Once they reach that number, they take no more from the top half of the OML. For branches like Aviation, MI, and other popular branches, the cutoff was really high.

3)Then they take the rest of the LTs they need from people who did ADSO and are in the bottom 50% of the OML.
However, if you are below the line to get your branch, but above 50% you are in the dead zone which means you move onto your second and third choices. Some branches you don't need ADSO to get even if you are in the bottom 50% because they are not necessarily popular branches (Ordinance and Transportation)

Sorry if that doesn't make any sense. Also gojack your links are broken.

PS-Gojack's Slide 16 entitled FY11 Pre-Branch Fill Rates is what I was trying to explain here.
 
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Google Document link here
(No Google account required)

I swear, as soon as I find something interesting, someone goes and tries to hide it :smile:
 
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gojack said:
-top 20%(0r 10%?) on the OML are DMG's "Distinguished Military Graduate" they get their first branch choice.
Click to expand...

My understanding is that DMG is the top 20% but only the top 10% get a guarantee of their first choice branch.
 
Raincloud here, but with Panetta taking over the DoD and budget issues, I would think all bets are off after 2011-12 budget regarding anything for the military, including personnel manpower.

I say that because Panetta will not take over until end of June, and the budget runs Oct 1st to Sept 30th, thus, it will be too hard for him to get acclimated to the job and start slashing the 11/12. 2012-13 is a whole different ball of wax. He may hit personnel or he may hit hardware.

JMPO unless you are commissioning in the next yr or two, I would not bother with the stats using current stats as a predictor for class of 14 or 15.
 
^^^
Not about the stats but the process --- with the anticipated budget cuts understanding this convoluted process will become increasing important.
 
I agree with you gojack.

The Army is the last of the services to experience cuts now.

AF has already started major trimming back, to the point of cutting the AFA class size and OCS.

I believe Navy announced for USNA they were also hitting the class size of the incoming yr.

Bullet was AD for the infamous 91-93 cuts regarding the military.

That is why I stated why IMPO you need to understand what has been the historical way it worked may become null and void especially in ROTC. Let's be honest they are not acad grads, thus if the Army fills their quota with USMA grads, it will impact ROTC grads who want AD.

It will also impact their career field choices depending on manpower needs.

Nobody knows how Panetta is going to go. For all we know he can cut our losses in Afghanistan and pull everyone home by 7/2012. That creates a problem because there aren't enough AD jobs stateside to support these troops. This occurred because our officers are not doing 4 and out the door or 5 and dive since nobody is hiring.

That's the problem. The minute you understand the promotion system, is the minute you get promotion rates, RIF and SERB. Once you get that you get how it will flow down to the cadets.

IF the officers who have passed their commitment decide to stay at a higher rate it causes problems.

There is a ratio of Officer to Enlisted.

Ratio of Flag (Generals) to Field (O4-O6) to Company (O1-O3). If the Company doesn't dive at the historical rate, they create a problem and that causes the military to do 1 of 3 things:
1. RIF AD yr groups
2. Cancel OCS
3. Hit future yr groups. If they have to hit, it won't be USMA cadets.

The military is never seen as a business, but it is. They pass over people for promotion because it is their way to get them out...corporate equivalent is dead wood. They give out bonuses to compete with the corporate world, for fields where the supply is always less than the demand. Same with scholarships. They dangle promotion below zone to keep the best, check out DFAS pay charts. The military does not do this out of the goodness of their heart, it is business, it is not personal....otherwise flight pay would not be over 800 a month and jumpers wouldn't get jump pay. You also would not have signing bonuses. It is about keeping their personnel assets.

You can wrap it anyway you want, but that is the reality. They are a business, and that business is to defend the country with a budget constraint.
 
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From that link:
President Obama is getting serious about cutting defense spending. That's the main signal being sent with his new choices to lead his national security team, analysts say.
Click to expand...

Enough said.
 
Here's the takeaway from this discussion...if you are serious about trying to become an Army (or any other branch) Officer you need to look at this process and ask yourself what can I control, and what should I not worry about because I can't control it. You can study hard and get good grades (or pursue an easy major). You can get yourself in top physical shape. You can attend all the ROTC training that is offered and make sure you are doing what you can to prepare for camp. You can live the Army Values and serve selflessly, no matter what branch/component you get....or you can worry about how to game the system and try to get a better outcome than you deserve. the military will get smaller, and the military will get bigger. We will fight other wars, and we will alway need young people who are ready to step up and serve.
 
clarksonarmy said:
Here's the takeaway from this discussion...if you are serious about trying to become an Army (or any other branch) Officer you need to look at this process and ask yourself what can I control, and what should I not worry about because I can't control it. You can study hard and get good grades (or pursue an easy major). You can get yourself in top physical shape. You can attend all the ROTC training that is offered and make sure you are doing what you can to prepare for camp. You can live the Army Values and serve selflessly, no matter what branch/component you get....or you can worry about how to game the system and try to get a better outcome than you deserve. the military will get smaller, and the military will get bigger. We will fight other wars, and we will alway need young people who are ready to step up and serve.
Click to expand...

Another post for DS to read and add to his mental file. ROTC was never going to guarantee every cadet a full-time job, the past 10 years were during a prolonged war and gave a warped view of ROTC outcomes for AD. Selfless service may mean taking a branch that is less desired or a NG/Reserve part-time slot. In today's economy any job is a good job. The scholarship money these cadets may get access to is still an amazing start compared to many of their peers taking on HUGE debts to attend college.

Thank you again Clarkson, Pima and others who keep this forum real for the kids (and us non-military parents).
 
clarksonarmy said:
....or you can worry about how to game the system and try to get a better outcome than you deserve.
Click to expand...

clarksonarmy,

I am coming at this from a different point of view, I have an 18 yr old son
that is going into Army ROTC... And by staying one to two steps ahead of him
(Mainly from what I have learned on this forum) I have been able to
correctly answer the questions and issues as they have arisen so far.

I would like to continue to be the wise all knowing father :shake:
To do that I need to understand what lies ahead and guesstimate
what questions are coming my way and how best to handle them,
while motivating and encouraging my son to make smart choices...
And I might be 'a tiny bit' obsessive on research anyway:wink:

Some hypothetical things I might need to be prepared for;
"I'm not worried about my GPA - because the PMS 'just loves me'.
"Should I try out for the Crew team? "
"I think want to be a lawyer, can I do that in ROTC?"
"I'm thinking about running for Frat President"
"Any ideas what I should do this summer?"
"Mom, Dad I would like you to meet my new wife and kid":eek::yikes::eek:

So I want to understand how the system works, but not to game it..,
but to work within it so I can give sound advice, when asked - which
will usually be ignored of course - but I will sleep easier knowing I was right.
 
clarksonarmy said:
Here's the takeaway from this discussion...if you are serious about trying to become an Army (or any other branch) Officer you need to look at this process and ask yourself what can I control, and what should I not worry about because I can't control it. You can study hard and get good grades (or pursue an easy major). You can get yourself in top physical shape. You can attend all the ROTC training that is offered and make sure you are doing what you can to prepare for camp. You can live the Army Values and serve selflessly, no matter what branch/component you get....or you can worry about how to game the system and try to get a better outcome than you deserve. the military will get smaller, and the military will get bigger. We will fight other wars, and we will alway need young people who are ready to step up and serve.
Click to expand...

As the OP for this thread, I don't think my daughter seeks to game the system. However, it is important that she knows where she stands with regards to what it takes to first ensure she gets her primary mission of AD after graduation (the chart seems to suggest that the OMS cutoff isn't very far below the average score, but then second where she might land in the branching process.

Gojack, has provided a valuable link to the Purdue slideshow with some valuable information about how the process works. I'm hoping she can take from that information that there are many ways for a newly minted LT to choose between competing priorities (trading years for either branch or locational consideration or grad school opportunities) and even then, OMS score still plays into those options.

And yes there are a variety of ways to raise your OMS, but she has always been the type to involve herself in activies of her personal interest first. The fact that they may help her OMS is great, but she isn't going to try to engineer something that really isn't even available to her (she is in a small unit without many of the trappings of some of the larger units).

I think the best thing that any cadet can take away from this dicussion is that the commissioning and branching process is complicated and somewhat unpredictable (unless you underperform where AD ceases to be an option). A cadet should do things at school that develop their leadership and physical skills while understanding that academic performance still is the largest part of the equation. When it comes time to make your career preferences known to the Army, understand that you may have tradeoffs to make based upon how well you have achieved (relative to your class). Knowing where you stand is an important part of making good decisions in career management.

Yes, there are always those who manage the numbers to an extreme. You see that in HS students who don't take marching band to add another AP course because the extra GPA rating. I'm sure that these types exist in ROTC as well. Nothing you can do about them, nor should you do anything about them even if you could. Be the best (fill in your name here) you can be. Challenge yourself, but know your limits. Make progress every semester and things will work themselves out.
 
clarksonarmy,

Re: my last post - Sorry - my attempt's at humor always seem to fall flat.

There is a line of thinking of "just do your best"...I think everything is about weighting options and making wise choices, and smart choices require accurate information. Contrary to what some parents seem to think, students do not spend all their free time studying, and if one does, that is one sad kid, a balanced life is better IMHO

Being 'average' can be used as a defense, on the OML being 'average' means the cadet is very close to failing to get AD. It seems to me that a minimum target for a cadet who wants a specific AD branch would be top 20-25%... And that's an additional incentive to work harder.

DS is planning on taking a non-critical language (Russian) every semester (for a minor) His dream is to spend a semester studying in Russia, but he also equally wants to attend Airborne school. If he is lucky enough to be offered both - would choosing one over the other change his chances of getting into MI, a difficult Branch to get into? That's the kind of questions that will arise.


goaliedad

I do think some benchmarks/targets are usually a good idea.
To be in top 10% AD avg 3.7 GPA
Top 20% AD avg 3.6 GPA
Top 50% AD avg 3.24 GPA

It looks like a minor move in a cadets Order of Merit Score (OMS) 0-101.5 scale can move a 'middling' cadet pretty dramatically on the Order of Merit List (OML) Link

For a Cadet is middle of OML an increase or decrease of “1” OMS will move Cadet 200 to 250 places of ROTC OML.

AN increase or decrease of “1” OMS will move Cadet 50 to 70 places on the ROTC OML if the Cadet is in the top or bottom.
 
gojack said:
clarksonarmy,

Re: my last post - Sorry - my attempt's at humor always seem to fall flat.

There is a line of thinking of "just do your best"...I think everything is about weighting options and making wise choices, and smart choices require accurate information. Contrary to what some parents seem to think, students do not spend all their free time studying, and if one does, that is one sad kid, a balanced life is better IMHO

Being 'average' can be used as a defense, on the OML being 'average' means the cadet is very close to failing to get AD. It seems to me that a minimum target for a cadet who wants a specific AD branch would be top 20-25%... And that's an additional incentive to work harder.

DS is planning on taking a non-critical language (Russian) every semester (for a minor) His dream is to spend a semester studying in Russia, but he also equally wants to attend Airborne school. If he is lucky enough to be offered both - would choosing one over the other change his chances of getting into MI, a difficult Branch to get into? That's the kind of questions that will arise.


goaliedad

I do think some benchmarks/targets are usually a good idea.
To be in top 10% AD avg 3.7 GPA
Top 20% AD avg 3.6 GPA
Top 50% AD avg 3.24 GPA

It looks like a minor move in a cadets Order of Merit Score (OMS) 0-101.5 scale can move a 'middling' cadet pretty dramatically on the Order of Merit List (OML) Link

For a Cadet is middle of OML an increase or decrease of “1” OMS will move Cadet 200 to 250 places of ROTC OML.

AN increase or decrease of “1” OMS will move Cadet 50 to 70 places on the ROTC OML if the Cadet is in the top or bottom.
Click to expand...

I ran across this old thread and thought I'd chime in now that the OML has been released.

There is a lot that goes into your OMS score, GPA is certainly a large factor but not the only one. Clarkson said it best, do your best and be strong in as many areas as you can. The OMS is a lot like the scholarship application, they look at everything to determin your score.

It was interesting hearing from my son this year how everybody did. There were cadets with 3.8 GPA that finished 20.2% on the national list. My son had a 3.5 and finished at 6.5%. While striving for the highest GPA is good the cadet needs to remember they should try and balance their work to be the best they can at everything ROTC. A well balanced cadet will score higher then a cadet that only excels in just one area. The PMS scores go a long way as does LDAC.

One thing to remember, don't count on an E at LDAC. The grading can be subjective and there is a bit of luck that goes along with it. Out of the top 4 cadets at my son's school only one received an E, The cadet that did the best, Overall E, Recondo, and Top 5 was actually a cadet that was towards the bottom of the battalion OML. Even with that superb job at LDAC his 2.4 GPA kept him low on the national OML, he did get AD however, All the cadets at my son's school that requested AD received it this year.
 
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