104 Form & Authorized Semesters

Does anyone here have experience with filling out the 104-R Form, and specifically with the # of authorized semesters? My son is trying to get a jump on filling his out before school starts. He has not met with an academic advisor yet.

He is beginning school with 29 hours of credit due to AP classes. According to the Gold Bar recruiter he spoke with last week at the battalion, he will likely only be authorized 6 semesters to graduate because of those hours.

Even though his degree program requires 120 hours total, he will have about 133 +/- at graduation if you include ROTC classes.

41 hrs - Gen Ed
16 hrs - Major Core
40 hrs - Major Concentration
36 hrs - ROTC (will actually be more than 36 he thinks)

133 total - 29 AP credit = 104 / 6 semesters = 17.33 hrs/semester.

Is that a normal expectation - 17+ hours a semester? My son is in a difficult major (Microbiology) and was not planning on that sort of course load for 3 years straight.

What happens if he isn't able to get all the classes needed in order to graduate in 3 years? Not all his classes are offered every year, and most are upper-level with prerequisites, etc.

To complicate matters slightly, he is an MS1 this year. Would he skip MSII and go straight to MSIII in order to graduate in 3 years? If that's the case, would he be better off not taking MSI classes, and going to LTC instead?

Needless to say we're a little confused. Everyone at the battalion is out of town for a few more weeks except the GBR. Any ideas how this might play out?

Jcc123 said:

Does anyone here have experience with filling out the 104-R Form, and specifically with the # of authorized semesters? My son is trying to get a jump on filling his out before school starts. He has not met with an academic advisor yet.

He is beginning school with 29 hours of credit due to AP classes. According to the Gold Bar recruiter he spoke with last week at the battalion, he will likely only be authorized 6 semesters to graduate because of those hours.

Even though his degree program requires 120 hours total, he will have about 133 +/- at graduation if you include ROTC classes.

41 hrs - Gen Ed
16 hrs - Major Core
40 hrs - Major Concentration
36 hrs - ROTC (will actually be more than 36 he thinks)

133 total - 29 AP credit = 104 / 6 semesters = 17.33 hrs/semester.

Is that a normal expectation - 17+ hours a semester? My son is in a difficult major (Microbiology) and was not planning on that sort of course load for 3 years straight.

What happens if he isn't able to get all the classes needed in order to graduate in 3 years? Not all his classes are offered every year, and most are upper-level with prerequisites, etc.

To complicate matters slightly, he is an MS1 this year. Would he skip MSII and go straight to MSIII in order to graduate in 3 years? If that's the case, would he be better off not taking MSI classes, and going to LTC instead?

Needless to say we're a little confused. Everyone at the battalion is out of town for a few more weeks except the GBR. Any ideas how this might play out?

Click to expand...

At this point I would recommend that your son stop listening to the Gold Bar Recruiter and ask questions of his PMS for his unit. The PMS signs off on that form IIRC.

In all likelyhood, if he has a 4-year scholarship, he will get exactly that - 4 years. Luckily he did not have 30 credit hours completed before matriculating because that might have disqualified him from the 4-year scholarship (as I remember it requires that you have freshman standing).

For many majors (and just about all requiring sequences of math and/or sciences), completing a degree in 3 years is all but impossible, so regardless of the credit restriction, a sequencing issue will come into play here.

You really need to talk to the PMS or the DoD civlian at that Btn. They're the ones that sign off on that form.

But going off personal experience, I have filled out the 104-R many times and it stinks. All of this is ancedotal evidence, but take what you will

• You need to take four years to graduate if you come in as a Freshman I had a fellow cadet who was having trouble because he had too many units. He had to add a minor. Also, the only requirement I believe is that you're in school full time.
• You can come into ROTC as a sophomore or Junior, but it takes extra work. I'm sure it varies with the batallion.

I'm sure Clarkson can comment and clarify this up.

At my school, full time is 12 hours with a max of 18 and most students taking an average of 16. He'll be able to spread it out if he does get 4 year scholarship. (That's what I've done) Look at the contract. It should tell you what's guaranteed.


As for LTC, he can talk to his cadre about that, but if he has four years, there isn't really a huge reason to go.

Thanks for the replies. He did not apply for a national scholarship, so that may change things for him? He was just awarded a scholarship by the battalion that covers room and board, but won't contract until next year unless I'm mistaken.

I agree that he should just wait for the PMS to return and clear things up.

Thanks!

I doubt they would really make him graduate in 6 semesters simply because of his hours he is taking to college. Like everyone said, ask the PMS. If they do end up only giving him 3 years (highly doubtful), look into adding another major/minor. At some universities, they count the upper level ROTC classes towards a business management degree, leaving only a few business classes left before you can get that second degree. I know of a few cadets that are doing this.

First off, your 104r is your academic plan. It is revised and reviewed every semester (or should be). It is not written in stone, but changing it may effect you scholarship (if you have one). It should be updated by sitting down with your academic advisor and making sure you are on track and that the plan is feasible.

Since you are non scholarship you have some options that your Battalion may or may not offer to you based on how they like to develop Cadets, but here are the options I would offer if you were coming to Clarkson:

Plan A - Come up with a plan to complete your degree in three years based on the 29 credits you already have. This will be contingent on the school accepting all of them towards your degree (see your advisor or transfer admissions). Take MS I or II this year and attend LTC next summer. Contract in the fall and finish your last two years of ROTC and commission in spring 2015.
Pros- saves you a year of college costs, gets you on the payroll sooner, gets you commissioned sooner
Cons- contigent on sophomore status, will require a heavier load, requires that you go to LTC or Basic training (the SMP program)

Plan B - Plan out a full four years. Don't worry about getting "credit" for all your AP classes. If you do get credit for some of them that just means that you can take a lighter load each semester, or you can add a minor.
Pros- more conducive to academic success, more flexible, allows you to take the full 4 years of ROTC, and develop in the preferred manner.
Cons- will take 4 years (not really a con, since that what it usually takes)

Plan B is my recommended plan, but since I don't know what your ability to pay for four years of school is that is just my recommendation.

You need to talk to your school (advisor) and your Battalion to make this decision.

Good luck

36 units of ROTC classes? Are those Quarter System units? Not sure how that works. For semester schools, the ROTC I've seen is:

Yr. 1: 1 unit Class, 1 unit Lab each semester = 4 units total for year
Yr. 2: Same as year 1
Yr. 3: 2 units Class, 2 units Lab each semester = 8 units total for year
Yr. 4: Same as Yr. 3.

Total Units: 24

dunninla said:

36 units of ROTC classes? Are those Quarter System units? Not sure how that works. For semester schools, the ROTC I've seen is:

Yr. 1: 1 unit Class, 1 unit Lab each semester = 4 units total for year
Yr. 2: Same as year 1
Yr. 3: 2 units Class, 2 units Lab each semester = 8 units total for year
Yr. 4: Same as Yr. 3.

Total Units: 24

Click to expand...

At my school.
Fresh+Soph
Class is 2 units each semester
Lab is 0 Units
Jr+Sr
Class is 4 units each semester
Lab is 0 Units
=32 total.
Obviously it varies depending on the school.


Also for any scholarship to take affect, I believe he has to contract. However, if it's room and board, it could be money the university gives to the ROTC for Room and Board scholarships. In which case, it's a completely different animal