Minority

I was Enlisted in the 101st as a grunt and served under CSM Purdy (please google him, finest Ranger ever IMO). I lived at Camp Buckner while training USMA Cadets in Air Assault operations and Rappeling techniques during their summer training.

Now to my point, I (and my 9th grade son) are Native American and members of the Choctaw Nation. My DS has recently expressed interest in "The Long Grey Line." He is a Pre-Ap student, in the STEM academy at his High School, A USN Sea Cadet, and can max several CFA segments and well above average in all others at age 14.

If being Native American will help him gain an appointment to the Academy, well gues what? He will use that edge with pride.

I know how the military works "been there and done that!" We do not make the rules, but we must play by them. I find it amusing how people start hating at the moment of truth.

It is the same way in RANGER SCHOOL!!!! So for all you haters suck it up and drive on!!! Or you will never earn that TAB!!!!!!!!!!!!


Sua Sponte

Can you clarify what you mean by "hating at the moment of truth?"

Race is a factor in earning the ranger tab?

And I guarantee you that no one is hating here

Reminds me of a story....A friend of mine, born in China, married an American and became a citizen. They had two sons. Their whole lives, my friend kept telling them "you're an American, not a Chinese-American." The sons' names were American sounding, so no one would ever think otherwise on applications and such...but when it was time for college she said, "I changed my mind: you're Chinese!!"

Life deals you a hand...it's best to play with the cards you have. If you have an advantage, well, that's life.

I am not a hater and I am Ranger Qualified and a Master parachutist

mom3boys said:

Reminds me of a story....A friend of mine, born in China, married an American and became a citizen. They had two sons. Their whole lives, my friend kept telling them "you're an American, not a Chinese-American." The sons' names were American sounding, so no one would ever think otherwise on applications and such...but when it was time for college she said, "I changed my mind: you're Chinese!!"

Life deals you a hand...it's best to play with the cards you have. If you have an advantage, well, that's life.

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Agreed

jhoytx3 said:

I was Enlisted in the 101st as a grunt and served under CSM Purdy (please google him, finest Ranger ever IMO). I lived at Camp Buckner while training USMA Cadets in Air Assault operations and Rappeling techniques during their summer training.

Now to my point, I (and my 9th grade son) are Native American and members of the Choctaw Nation. My DS has recently expressed interest in "The Long Grey Line." He is a Pre-Ap student, in the STEM academy at his High School, A USN Sea Cadet, and can max several CFA segments and well above average in all others at age 14.

If being Native American will help him gain an appointment to the Academy, well gues what? He will use that edge with pride.

I know how the military works "been there and done that!" We do not make the rules, but we must play by them. I find it amusing how people start hating at the moment of truth.

It is the same way in RANGER SCHOOL!!!! So for all you haters suck it up and drive on!!! Or you will never earn that TAB!!!!!!!!!!!!


Sua Sponte

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Well, I have to agree with your main point. There isn't one kid who is applying for either the Academies or ROTC Scholarships that don't list every single thing that might give them an edge in getting that appointment or scholarship.

You've got kids that come from families that can afford to send them to high cost Prep Schools, private sport camps, and EC's outside of school. These kids will of course use every bit of this advantage to help their application. You have kids that have to work through high school and while they have work experience thay do not have the time for some of the other activities, these kids will list their work experience to their benefit as well. Will minorities list their race, of course. Point is everyone will use what they have to help better their application.

I do have the same question, what does "hating at the moment of truth" mean. What type of "Haters" are you speaking of in reference to Ranger School?

The unfortunate thing is that from what I have read, Native Americans are not a URM at West Point, could be wrong about that.

Jcleppe said:

Well, I have to agree with your main point. There isn't one kid who is applying for either the Academies or ROTC Scholarships that don't list every single thing that might give them an edge in getting that appointment or scholarship.

You've got kids that come from families that can afford to send them to high cost Prep Schools, private sport camps, and EC's outside of school. These kids will of course use every bit of this advantage to help their application. You have kids that have to work through high school and while they have work experience thay do not have the time for some of the other activities, these kids will list their work experience to their benefit as well. Will minorities list their race, of course. Point is everyone will use what they have to help better their application.

I do have the same question, what does "hating at the moment of truth" mean. What type of "Haters" are you speaking of in reference to Ranger School?

The unfortunate thing is that from what I have read, Native Americans are not a URM at West Point, could be wrong about that.

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I have been reading on here for over a year, but finally had to register with the site to respond to this thread because it hits close to home. I am guessing OP posted this in response to the other thread on here about minority status... in which case this new thread is kind of causing topic pollution and could have been addressed there. It's like seeing another "Beast Supplies" thread pop up. Nevertheless...

Proud Algonquin woman here, and USMA Class of 2016 appointee. First of all, yes, USMA definitely considers Native Americans as URMs. I don't know to what extent my heritage pushed me over the line for admission or for my nomination, any more than I know what my Senior Class Presidency or my All-State Soccer status or my SAT scores or my femaleness did for me. But I am pretty sure my Native American heritage played a big part, and I accept and welcome that. But what I also know is that if & when I lag behind on a march, I don't plan to weigh down my company and my squad-mates by having them carry me plus the weight of some enormous chip on my shoulder. I'm pretty sure that if I walk onto the USMA campus on R-Day and proclaim that I am there on the basis of my Nipmuc heritage, or that I am somehow owed something because of it, I can probably expect the kind of attention that a plebe doesn't want. Does this mean I lack pride in my heritage? Absolutely not! It just means that if I focus on any color but grey when I get there, then I need to reconsider my ability to look beyond self in favor of all.

I do resonate with what @jhoytx3 was saying, in terms of using whatever edge God gave you, and @Jcleppe acknowledges the same thing, and pride in heritage, especially for Native Americans is vital, since it was for so long straight-out forbidden for us in this country. But I think @jhoytx3 lost some credibility due to the somewhat accusatory nature of the message. I'm not old, and I am sure I have not had to deal with prejudice to the same extent that @jhoytx3 has in his/her life, but in my opinion, assuming a tone of entitlement does little to convince those who may disagree with the aims of affirmative action programs that they should reconsider their position.

And, @jhoytx3, best of luck and wishes to your son as he works his way through high school. It sounds like he is on the right track to being along the Hudson in four years.

YOu've got a point jcleppe. Families with lots of money readily pay for three things that help make an application stronger:

1) classes or private tutors to boost SAT, plus math and science tutors for school classes.
2) private lessons in (fill in blank -- volleyball, baseball, football, wresting, tennis, track, etc.) that helps the child get really good and become a Varsity Captain
3) Kid doesn't need to work during High School so they have more time to become a Class officer, Yearbook Editor, varsity team member, etc.

It sucks having no money, and don't think it doesn't affect all three areas of the Application the academies/ROTC look for: Scholar, Athlete, Leader. It is interesting to me that the State of California uses "performance in the context of life challenges" and not minority status in its admissions decisions. For UCSD they used to be published with point values, perhaps they still are. Categories are: Low income, single parent, disabilities overcome, poorly performing school in State tests, etc.

dunninla said:

It is interesting to me that the State of California uses "performance in the context of life challenges" and not minority status in its admissions decisions.

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Correct me if I am wrong... I really have nothing to prove what I'm about to say, but here it goes.

Isn't the idea behind West Point's "minority goals" the same "diversity" as "performance in the context of life challenges", but they use skin color and background instead of, say, single parents?

Just wondering... I don't know if West Point uses the "Affirmative Action" principle as to apologize for the years of wrong-doings in the past (as do other institutions).

dunninla said:

YOu've got a point jcleppe. Families with lots of money readily pay for three things that help make an application stronger:

1) classes or private tutors to boost SAT, plus math and science tutors for school classes.
2) private lessons in (fill in blank -- volleyball, baseball, football, wresting, tennis, track, etc.) that helps the child get really good and become a Varsity Captain
3) Kid doesn't need to work during High School so they have more time to become a Class officer, Yearbook Editor, varsity team member, etc.

It sucks having no money, and don't think it doesn't affect all three areas of the Application the academies/ROTC look for: Scholar, Athlete, Leader. It is interesting to me that the State of California uses "performance in the context of life challenges" and not minority status in its admissions decisions. For UCSD they used to be published with point values, perhaps they still are. Categories are: Low income, single parent, disabilities overcome, poorly performing school in State tests, etc.

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You summed that up nicely.

My older son played Tennis, only school sport he did. In tennis if you didn't send your son to tennis camp and belong to a tennis club with private lessons, the kid could forget about ever being Captain. I saw some parents spend upwards of $10,000 per year so their kid could be Captain someday. My son...well lets just say while he was Varsity, he never played in the top 10, that kind of money was nuts. Not sure just varsity tennis would be enough for a scholarship today, funny thing, he got a lot of ribbing for being a tennis when he started ROTC, then he maxed the APFT and has had the highest score in the battalion all 4 years, don't under estimate those tennis players.

Parents at my son's school sent their kids to expensive summer leadership camps so they could be leaders in school government, they weren't shy when they gave the reason that it will look good on the college resume.

The above just illustrates your point, money can go a long way in providing a son or daughter with the stats needed to be competitive and it doesn't matter what race that money comes from. I would hope that the socioeconomic status of an applicant would offer the same weight in the applications. The AROTC application has no area that specifically asks these questions other then whether the applicant works and how many hours. I would imagine that is where the essay and interview comes in, but I wonder just how much it is considered.

In the end, as our system is set up, everyone will use what ever benefit they have to give themselves the edge in the application process. A minority will use whatever race they are to gain an edge, some people, minorities as well, will use their financial status to help elevate their kids statistics and at some point someone will always be angry about it. Until that changes, it's the system we have to work within.

jhoytx3 said:

I was Enlisted in the 101st as a grunt and served under CSM Purdy (please google him, finest Ranger ever IMO). I lived at Camp Buckner while training USMA Cadets in Air Assault operations and Rappeling techniques during their summer training.

Now to my point, I (and my 9th grade son) are Native American and members of the Choctaw Nation. My DS has recently expressed interest in "The Long Grey Line." He is a Pre-Ap student, in the STEM academy at his High School, A USN Sea Cadet, and can max several CFA segments and well above average in all others at age 14.

If being Native American will help him gain an appointment to the Academy, well gues what? He will use that edge with pride.

I know how the military works "been there and done that!" We do not make the rules, but we must play by them. I find it amusing how people start hating at the moment of truth.

It is the same way in RANGER SCHOOL!!!! So for all you haters suck it up and drive on!!! Or you will never earn that TAB!!!!!!!!!!!!


Sua Sponte

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What on earth is this tripe? First and foremost, no one said anything either way about your son's ethnicity or minority admissions, so calm down. What exactly the point of this post, other than to make trouble? Native Americans are considered minorities. Period. So why make this post? You didn't even ask a question.

I noticed you referenced being enlisted in the 101st but used the Ranger Regiment's motto of Sua Sponte in your post. Were you in Regiment or the 101st? I have to assume you weren't in Regiment, since you did not make note of it.

A tab doesn't make a Ranger.

jhoytx3 said:

I was Enlisted in the 101st as a grunt and served under CSM Purdy (please google him, finest Ranger ever IMO). I lived at Camp Buckner while training USMA Cadets in Air Assault operations and Rappeling techniques during their summer training.

Now to my point, I (and my 9th grade son) are Native American and members of the Choctaw Nation. My DS has recently expressed interest in "The Long Grey Line." He is a Pre-Ap student, in the STEM academy at his High School, A USN Sea Cadet, and can max several CFA segments and well above average in all others at age 14.

If being Native American will help him gain an appointment to the Academy, well gues what? He will use that edge with pride.

I know how the military works "been there and done that!" We do not make the rules, but we must play by them. I find it amusing how people start hating at the moment of truth.

It is the same way in RANGER SCHOOL!!!! So for all you haters suck it up and drive on!!! Or you will never earn that TAB!!!!!!!!!!!!


Sua Sponte

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What a pathetic post.

eagleone
Strange post - I am a fully qualified Ranger and a Master Paratrooper and I do not hate anyone. You seem to have a problem but it is difficult to tell what that problem is. The purpose of this forum is help each other and pass along information and experiences in order to help people who are trying to get admitted to West Point. You seem to have another agenda.

Folks, not sure where this thread is headed but it doesn't appear to be a good place. So I'm closing it.

If someone wants to continue legitimate discussion of USMA admissions and the like, please do open a new thread on your subject of interest.