Scholarship/ Norwich vs. Citadel school question- Please advise!

I have been accepted to The Citadel, Norwich, and North Georgia. I just found out I have been given a 3 year advanced designee scholarship from Norwich. I assumed this was through Army ROTC, is it possible to transfer this scholarship to another school? My parents think The Citadel has a better name, and would help me get a job in the future. They consider The Citadel like West Point, and have encouraged me to go their. But- out of state tuition is almost 40,000 a year. I don't want to finish with 160,000 in student loans. If I go to The Citadel, will they help me with tuition at all for being in Army ROTC? Last, their is North Georgia. I understand they grant in state tuition to out of state kids- so I'm slightly considering this. I guess what I'm asking is,

1. can i transfer an Army ROTC scholarship to a different school?
2. If I go to The Citadel, will they give me any money for doing ROTC?
3. Does The Citadel name carry as much weight as my parents think?
4. If I had an option to go to Norwich or The Citadel, which looks better on a resume?

Any advice would be most appreciated!

First, how do you know you have a scholarship (you mentioned you “assumed this was through Army ROTC")?

1. can i transfer an Army ROTC scholarship to a different school? There are many threads about transferring scholarships on this forum you can read through. You need to contact Cadet Command and you could also contact Lt Col Mike Brady at The Citadel Army ROTC office.
2. If I go to The Citadel, will they give me any money for doing ROTC? My understanding is The Citadel does offer a $3500.00 annual scholarship for ROTC scholarship cadets; however, you have to have a certain score on the SAT or ACT (I think the ACT score has to be a 27 or higher). However, I do not think they offer anything for just being in ROTC as all Citadel cadets must be in one of ROTC programs. You can contact Lt Col Hank Fuller in the financial aid department.
3. Does The Citadel name carry as much weight as my parents think? The Citadel has a great reputation and great alumni network, especially in the southeast. The schools (West Point vs. The Citadel) have different missions and goals so it is really hard to compare the two. Most of The Citadel graduates do not go into the military. However, my son likes the idea that all services are represented at The Citadel and the other Senior Military Colleges. Having said that, West Point is certainly the better known of the two.
4. If I had an option to go to Norwich or The Citadel, which looks better on a resume? I think that just depends on who is reading your resume. I live in North Carolina and have known of The Citadel, VMI and North Georgia since I was a child. I actually did not know anything about Norwich until my son starting thinking about attending a SMC. I would think someone in the northeast may know more about Norwich than The Citadel.

Have you visited these schools? Norwich University 101 for accepted students is this weekend...
My DS is a first year contracted cadet (4 year AROTC scholarship) and we live in SC. He didn't even apply to The Citadel. You should go where you feel comfortable.

49er and philmont provide excellent advice. My advice would be to push all of your options aggressively, and once you have final, bottom-line price-tag numbers for each school, weigh your options carefully. Also, visit the schools. This is very important. You will find that regardless of how many "back of the envelope" sessions you have at the kitchen table, one of the schools will just feel like "home." That's the school you want to attend, because you will pour your heart and soul into the place before it's all over. I think this is much more important than simply going with the cheapest offer. Of course, $40k vs. $0 is a significant difference and could be determinative. But a couple of grand difference does not a good school make. Good luck.

Bruno, you may want to consider moving this thread to the SMC forum.

Flynner - if you haven't checked into this already, you may be surprised to find you will not be able to take out $160,000 in student loans. As a freshman, you are eligible for $5,500 in loans, and that increases about $500 a year.

If you could, somehow, convince someone to lend you $160,000, your monthly payments upon graduation would be approximately $1,545.00 for 10 years.

If you like Norwich and want to be an Army officer, follow the money.

49er- i only assume because i received an e-mail from norwich rotc that congraduated me on a 3r) year advanced designee scholarship- they said i"d get more information next week

JCC,

The 5500 you speak of is FAFSA, but he can take a personal loan for education from places like Well's Fargo if he has a co-signor. This may be where he is getting the 160K number.

That being stated, let's pretend he takes 100K in loans.

Do I think it is worth it? No.

This has nothing to do with the quality of the education it has everything to do with the 4 yrs as an AD officer and repaying the loans.

http://www.dfas.mil/militarymembers/payentitlements/militarypaytables.html

An O1 will gross 2828.40 a month for 2 yrs, base pay. On a good day, remove 20% for taxes/with holdings.
~~~That leaves roughly 2250 a month.

Student loans start to get re-paid 6 months after graduation. I don't know what 100K would be, but even at a 3% interest rate, I would have to assume since it is 10 yrs, it has to be near 500.
~~~ That leaves 1750

He will need a car, and a car payment on a good day would be @ 250
~~~ That leaves 1500

Car requires insurance, and due to their age, I would guess @400 a month
~~~ That leaves 1100

Car requires gas, I would guess on a good day 200 a month
~~~ That leaves 900

Can't live without a cell phone, I would guess 100
~~~ That leaves 800

Now the biggies
~ Food...22 yo, are you brown bagging it, or hitting BK? 100 a month
~~~ That leaves 700
~~~ 10 bucks a day for 3 meals (not happening, but let's pretend) 200
~~~ That leaves 500
~ Cable...say you share it with roomies, still 50 a month
~~~ That leaves 450
~ Utilities...still sharing with roomies, but electric, gas, water, sewer: 100
~~~ That leaves 350

85 bucks a week sounds great, but now you have a GF and you want to take her to a dinner and a movie 1 X a week.
~~~ That leaves you at zero.

Did you notice there was no money put towards savings? No money to fly home yrly to visit the family! No money to buy clothes, presents, etc!

OBTW, no money to put towards any credit card debt that you used to fly home, buy clothes or presents. You are digging yourself into a financial hole.

Honestly, my numbers are being really, really kind.

If it was my child, there is no way I would say that it is worth 160K in debt. What you do as an AD officer will be a bigger factor in 5-10 yrs when you enter the corporate world than the college.

Yes, I know networking, but that only opens the door, your experience is what seals the deal and gets you the paycheck.

Remember I only did 100, not 160K in loans. You will be even deeper in a hole with 160K.

Finally, let's pretend you stay for more than 4 yrs., at 6 yrs you are married and want to buy a home. VA loans are not 100% guaranteed, they still have regs, and 1 of them is your credit score. If you spent 4 yrs racking up debt because that college loan is killing you, than you may lose the chance to buy a home. That college loan is considered debt, and the VA has a looser reg regarding debt ratio, but they still have it. They will see car, credit card and student loan debt, which could kill you from getting a mtg.

Missed Jcc123's post that it was 1500 a month for 160K

Like I said, my numbers were a good day.

If 1500 is the number, Flynner will not even be able to live on ramen 3 meals a day if he wants to own a car and a cell phone. Cable is out the door, and he probably needs to buy a Volt because gas prices will kill his budget.

Forget movies, even netflix, forget eating at BK, forget buying clothes, forget any form of life as he knows it as an 18 yo.

Pima said:

Missed Jcc123's post that it was 1500 a month for 160K

Like I said, my numbers were a good day.

If 1500 is the number, Flynner will not even be able to live on ramen 3 meals a day if he wants to own a car and a cell phone. Cable is out the door, and he probably needs to buy a Volt because gas prices will kill his budget.

Forget movies, even netflix, forget eating at BK, forget buying clothes, forget any form of life as he knows it as an 18 yo.

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A Volt? You gotta be kidding me! How is he going to afford that? Oh yeah, another loan.

I really like your rough run-downs of a budget. To many of these kids, my son included, the $2828/mo seems like a lot of money. It is good to see that it is not that much money before they sign up for that loan.
Be careful those loans can turn into an anchor around your neck.

Pima said:

Missed Jcc123's post that it was 1500 a month for 160K

Like I said, my numbers were a good day.

If 1500 is the number, Flynner will not even be able to live on ramen 3 meals a day if he wants to own a car and a cell phone. Cable is out the door, and he probably needs to buy a Volt because gas prices will kill his budget.

Forget movies, even netflix, forget eating at BK, forget buying clothes, forget any form of life as he knows it as an 18 yo.

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These are all really good points

One other thing about finding an apt. It has to be done sometimes from long distance. Really be careful. Remember that the person on the other end an email address or phone line could be a scammer. Don't send money until your completely sure who you are dealing with. Seek the advice of other people you know who have been at the base before.

Car requires insurance, and due to their age, I would guess @400 a month
~~~ That leaves 1100

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PIMA,

What kind of car would this kid be driving, a Maserati, $400.00 per mo. for Insurance seems a lot.

My son will be driving a Mustang GT, his insurance is $77.50 per mo. @ USAA and he is 22

I loved your post.

More on Loans

According to my trusty HP12c calculator:

A $100,000 loan paid off in 10 years at an interest rate of 3.0% would require monthly payments of $966.

At 7%, which may be more realistic, the monthly payment is $1,161.

I don't know how they are doing student loans these days, but unless there is some kind of government subsidy, the borrowed amount will be accruing interest even if you don't have to make payments until after you graduate. So, if the actual cash amount you've borrowed is $100,000, the principal will be higher. I would imagine the lender will have calculated the accrued interest and added it to the principal.

tangent

jcleppe...you have an amazing deal for car insurance. We pay $89 per month for DD for a not so nice car with USAA. Maybe it is your location?

Jcleppe,

Insurance is unique, because it is based on car, age, where you live and deduction levels.

I highly doubt even with USAA that a Maserati for a 22 yo would be 400 a month. I suspect it would be much more.

I am only going off of what we pay via the USAA statements for our DS as a part time driver in VA. He is @ 360 a yr. and is 22.


Packer,

A Volt is @ 40K, a Tahoe with all the bells and whistles would be over that. A Mustang GT 2013 convertible is MSRP 36K.

All about what you want.

However, I agree, the newly commissioned cadet is boffed because it will be way more than my 250 a month. Read the fine line on those ads, 16.67 per thousand. Put 10K down, loan is 25K, is really @ 375 a month.

Back on topic.

This OP is thinking about a military career and if he opts to go loans it would be a lot of money.

He needs to be realistic regarding life.

How many of our HS kids who raid the fridge or cabinets at 9 p.m. realize a box of Cheerio's cost 4 bucks, a gallon of milk is $3+, Oreo's 4.50, microwave popcorn is $3 a box. Never mind that a 12 pack of Pepsi or Coca-Cola is @$5.

I am sorry, but I can't say a 6 figure loan is worth it!

Jcleppe,

Insurance is unique, because it is based on car, age, where you live and deduction levels.

I highly doubt even with USAA that a Maserati for a 22 yo would be 400 a month. I suspect it would be much more.

I am only going off of what we pay via the USAA statements for our DS as a part time driver in VA. He is @ 360 a yr. and is 22.


Packer,

A Volt is @ 40K, a Tahoe with all the bells and whistles would be over that. A Mustang GT 2013 convertible is MSRP 36K.

All about what you want.

However, I agree, the newly commissioned cadet is boffed because it will be way more than my 250 a month. Read the fine line on those ads, 16.67 per thousand. Put 10K down, loan is 25K, is really @ 375 a month.

Back on topic.

This OP is thinking about a military career and if he opts to go loans it would be a lot of money.

He needs to be realistic regarding life.

How many of our HS kids who raid the fridge or cabinets at 9 p.m. realize a box of Cheerio's cost 4 bucks, a gallon of milk is $3+, Oreo's 4.50, microwave popcorn is $3 a box. Never mind that a 12 pack of Pepsi or Coca-Cola is @$5.

I am sorry, but I can't say a 6 figure loan is worth it!

The Citadel is rated #5 for regional colleges in the South by this years US news, Norwich is rated #60 for regional colleges in the north by US news.

I would say that the rankings are probably pretty accurate based on what I know of both schools.

That being said, you have to answer for yourself it the extra $$'s are worth the extra prestige, especially if you are going into the military immediately after graduation. It would be a tough sell for me.

goldenlion said:

jcleppe...you have an amazing deal for car insurance. We pay $89 per month for DD for a not so nice car with USAA. Maybe it is your location?

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Your right about the location.

When my son received quotes for car insurance from USAA it was for a 2008 Mustang GT....the fast one. The quote if he lived in Seattle was $1650.00 per year. The quote for Alabama was $770.00 per year, It's all in where you live. I told him that if after flight school is over if he gets stationed back here at Ft. Lewis his ins. will jump up again and to be prepared for it. But even at $1650.00 per year the Mo. rate would only be $137.00 per month, not $400.00. Washington State has one of the highest insurance rates for autos, lucky us.

I am sorry, but I can't say a 6 figure loan is worth it!

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PIMA,

I couldn't agree with you more, considering the OP has other very good options.

Flynner77 said:

I have been accepted to The Citadel, Norwich, and North Georgia. ... Any advice would be most appreciated!

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Flynner77, a little more info may be helpful:
what career path are you planning on (Career officer? Armor, MI, MP etc?)
College Major?
Back up career plan if military does not work out/ends early?