CFA scores

Hey guys,

So I recently took my CFA at SLS for West Point and then I took it again for Air Force with my PE teacher. Besides my mile, I improved on every category when I took it the second time. However, the problem is that my mile time is pretty slow. I maxed out on push-ups and sit-ups, and got abover average on the b-ball toss and pull-ups, but my mile time was 7:21. West Point classified me as no risk when I took the CFA for them, so do you guys think I should send in those scores, even though I didn't max out in any catagory and got worst scores other than my mile time, or should I send in the one I did with my PE teacher. I know the Academies don't publish minimums, but I feel as though 7:21 is border line minimum. What are you guys feelings? Thanks!!

I wouldn't worry about it, but you still have a lot of time to improve it if you really wanted to.
I took my first CFA in September of senior year; however, the results were not what I wanted.
I took it again in October, and that was that. I did get a 7:20 mile, but I ran 4 years of track. By then I just wanted to complete my application.
You could wait til fall of senior year because that's when you apply for nominations, and your file must be completed and with a nomination in order to be accepted.

If you are a recruited athlete or qualify for the presidential nomination then you could get accepted and/or nominated earlier.

If your scores were better when you took it with your PE teacher then send them to all the academies you are applying. With USAFA though you only(usually) get one time to enter the scores so make sure those are your best. No one can really tell you what the minimums are. Every year different people apply with different scores.

Max out on everything you can. I saved my CFA for last when I applied last year and did pretty good aside from my above average mile time. (Don't neglect cardio!) CFA is basically the portion you have the most control over and you still have a good amount of time before it will be looked at. Also, you said you didn't max any scores for the CFA for the AFA and you did for the West Point scores. You know you are capable, go for it!

Are you doing any speed training in your mile workouts - generally this means interval 200s and 400s? Many people just run mile and distance to try to improve. Distance is needed but speed workouts is where you will see time improvements.

Recent mile research shows that the 400m interval is the best predictor of mile time improvements. If you are not using speed workouts, try to do 2 of them per week (don't do them more than that) for the next four weeks and see if it increases your mile time.

Though it was many years ago, I used interval 400s (running slight uphill grade - then jogging back down for the interval) to make serious improvement in my mile time used for my sport.

Get with a good local intermediate distance track coach - a local college coach may be able to help or a club track coach (HS coach is not always best).

Yeah I will definitley try some speed training. Great advice!! I just performed my ROTC physical fitness test and I got a 6:59, which is not a great time but its respectable. The problem with me is that I have a lot of upper body strength, which is great for push-ups, pull-ups, etc., but doesn't really help me run a fast mile. All well, I will figure it out eventually. Thanks for the advice guys. I appreciate it.

Cadet2017 said:

Yeah I will definitley try some speed training. Great advice!! I just performed my ROTC physical fitness test and I got a 6:59, which is not a great time but its respectable. The problem with me is that I have a lot of upper body strength, which is great for push-ups, pull-ups, etc., but doesn't really help me run a fast mile. All well, I will figure it out eventually. Thanks for the advice guys. I appreciate it.

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Speed training will work even better for you - I weighed 210 lbs when I was using it and also had a lot of upper body strength. Good luck with the CFA!

I've heard from a source at West Point that the minimum was 8:10 for the mile. I got 8:20 on a mile during a test and didn't pass, then got 7:40 on my next test and passed. I believe that's where the cut off is.

Thanks for the info Eagle Scout. Now I am not as worried anymore.

I don't know a whole lot, but from what I have read on this forum for the last few years, do not send in your scores until you are positive that you have maxed out. My son broke his leg last summer playing football and had not sent in his scores. He had surgery and worked hard and did not send his scores in until the beginning of November. He is marching back from Jacks Valley as I am writing this. My point is don't be in too much of a rush to hand everything in. I understand what you are going through, but I have learned the hard way that with the military, it is "Hurry up and then wait". Good Luck and enjoy your senior season!!!

EagleScout13 said:

I've heard from a source at West Point that the minimum was 8:10 for the mile. I got 8:20 on a mile during a test and didn't pass, then got 7:40 on my next test and passed. I believe that's where the cut off is.

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It is highly unlikely that the cutoff for USMA and USAFA are the same. Don't sell yourself short. Make sure you have done your absolute best. Your competition will.

Do not underestimate the importance of the mile run and being physically in shape.

Cadet2017 said:

Hey guys,

So I recently took my CFA at SLS for West Point and then I took it again for Air Force with my PE teacher. Besides my mile, I improved on every category when I took it the second time. However, the problem is that my mile time is pretty slow. I maxed out on push-ups and sit-ups, and got abover average on the b-ball toss and pull-ups, but my mile time was 7:21. West Point classified me as no risk when I took the CFA for them, so do you guys think I should send in those scores, even though I didn't max out in any catagory and got worst scores other than my mile time, or should I send in the one I did with my PE teacher. I know the Academies don't publish minimums, but I feel as though 7:21 is border line minimum. What are you guys feelings? Thanks!!

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Cadet2017:
A couple of years ago, my DS had similar difficulties with his mile run when he started doing his CFA.
His initial attempts were at the 7:40+ mark. He played basketball, but the coach did not emphasize running.
A good friend of mine who is a college All American middle distance runner put together the training program below. DS followed it explicitly and took his mile down to 5:50 for CFA. He is now a “runner”, and regularly running sub 5:00 miles, as well as marathons.

He’s in the middle of his plebe summer now, and he attributes a big part of his ability to stay off the detailers’ radar to the running / physical training regimen he has been following since his senior HS year and during his year of prep school. Do not underestimate the importance of the mile run and being physically in shape.

Here you go… it’s not for everyone…. But it worked for my DS….

Assume he is playing hoops about 5 times a week……………………….four weeks to a fast mile!
Week 1: 4 separate runs
• 10 minute jog
• 15 minute jog
• 15 minute jog
• 15 minute jog
• Take one day off from both hoops and running

Week 2: 4 separate runs
• Track workout- warm up jog of 2 laps; then stretch; then run 4 laps where you jog the curves and stride (not quite a sprint) the straight-aways
• 15 minute jog; then four 80-100 yard striders after
• 15 minute jog
• 15 minute run- warm up nice and slow for first 5 minutes; then run 2 minutes at a fairly hard clip; then jog slowly for another 3 minutes; then run 2 minutes at a fairly hard clip; then jog the last 3 minutes
• Take one day off from both hoops and running

Week 3: 4 separate runs
• Track workout- same track workout as previous week
• 15 minute jog; then four 80-100 yard striders after
• 15 minute jog; then four 80-100 yard striders after
• 15 minute run- jog first 5 minutes; run next 5 minutes at a brisk clip; jog the last 5 minutes
• Take one day off from both hoops and running

Week 4: 4 separate runs
• Track workout- warm up jog of 2 laps; stretch; four 200 yard sprints (half a lap) resting 2 minutes between them; then jog another four laps nice and easy
• 15 minute jog; then four 80-100 yard striders
• 15 minute run- jog first 5 minutes; then run next 5 minutes at a good hard clip; then jog last 5 minutes
• Easy 15 minute run
• Take one day off from both hoops and running​

The AFA does not publish mins., I would think 7:20 is close to the mins.

I agree with sportsmom.

I understand you want to get that appointment, but you need to understand the AFA system.

1. AFA does not hand out a ton of LOA's. They are not like WP. They hand out very, very, very few. Seriously, I have not placed enough very's in that statement to stress how few. Maybe 1% of everyone that opens a PCQ file will get an LOA.

If that is your reason why to submit so early, make sure your academic/EC stats are there to back you up for the LOA. You need to be golden in every aspect. I am not saying WP is easier, I am saying they tend to hand out LOA's earlier, and AFA doesn't follow their lead, especially since they are really holding down apptmts. and the close date is more than 6 months away.

2. 1st board traditionally meets in around Columbus Day. You can't get an appointment without a nom. You can't win the nom unless your WCS is the highest on your slate.

I don't know what state you reside in, but that CFA can be a make or break if you are in a competitive state. Granted it is a small % of a smaller % compared to the PAR, but every point counts. CO, CA, FL, NY, TX and VA quickly come to mind regarding competition not only at the AFA, but also at the MOC level. In those states the MOCs talk.

Once you have a nom., you have until Feb to complete your packet.

The point is, does it matter when you get appointed or getting appointed? 7:20 is passable, but are you sure there is no other candidate on your Sen. slate that didn't max every category, and had the same pts in PAR, EC's, recs, etc?

You don't. All you know is only 1 on that slate can be appointed.

Ask yourself are you willing to risk the chance of an appointment for submitting early?

Just my 0.017842 cents, you want to submit now because you think you will have an answer earlier. They don't call it Mass Mailing March for no reason. You submit now, you can't submit again. Only the AFA will re-open that portal, and it is unlikely with a min run, and max everything else they will. Most likely, you will be one of those mass mailing appointments. This is not a sprint, it is a marathon. First out of the gate does not equate to winning. Use your time wisely.

Let me add something. In the past, I have always stressed the importance of getting your application done early. I still feel that way; but I narrow it down to 2 specific applicants.

1. Best; kick butt application. You KNOW who you are. You are the same applicant who most likely will get accepted for early admissions from ALL of your other school choices. You have the 32+ACT/2200+SAT; 3.98-4.00GPA unweighted; ALL classes are AP or you are in the IB "Program" (Not just individual classes; play 2 or more varsity sports and already have 2 varsity letters in each sport; have or on the cusp of at least 200+ hours of volunteer time; numerous leadership roles/positions such as boy's state, class officer, club president, captain of varsity teams, etc.... You know the type of "NO BRAINER" application I'm talking about. Don't ask questions like "WHAT IF". I can't/won't answer those to help you decide if you're that type of applicant. Basically, it's the applicant who pretty much CAN'T improve on ANY area, or if there is room for improvement it's minor. E.g. little room to improve academically, physically, socially, leadership, etc... Again; if you don't KNOW if you are "THIS TYPE OF CANDIDATE", then chances are... YOU'RE NOT.

2. The 2nd area for getting your application in early are for those with MILITARY nominations such as Presidentials, ROTC, etc... These nominations are given almost immediately. E.g. Those authorized presidential nominations are already getting them. The reason for having your application in as early as possible if you have a military nomination, is because these are guaranteed but LIMITED numbers of appointment. While LOA's are not common, EARLY APPOINTMENTS are common. Most MOC nominations don't even have their interviews until December. But an individual with a really good application and a military nomination can receive an appointment as early as October-November. Just like any other college, the academy is trying to compete with civilian schools.

So; if you have a "Kick Butt" no brainer application where it's almost impossible to significantly improve; and/or you have a military nomination; you should consider getting your application in as soon as possible. This includes finishing up your CFA. (Until your application is 100% complete, the board WILL NOT LOOK AT IT). But if you get it in sooner than others, there is the human factor among board members. 1st: There won't be that many other applications to look at, so they tend to be more impressed with your accomplishments. 2nd: They see you as a dedicated and motivated individual who knows what they want and you are going after it. You aren't simply applying to "ANOTHER" college.

But if you are the average applicant, competing for the MOC nominations because that's all you have to work with, and you have a lot of questions about your application/resume/accomplishments, then use all the time that you can; use it wisely; maximize your grades, test scores, and CFA. best of luck.... Mike....