SEALs/Kings Point?

Hey everybody,
I just wanted to know if there is a SEAL training program at USMMA, and how many midshipmen attend the program? And more importantly, does the USMMA have a quota of SEAL candidates (for example they could nominate 10 people)? Thanks.

Does anyone have any info? Thanks.

There really isn't any sort of SEAL program at KP, at least that I know of. Any interest you have in that would have to go through the Naval Science department and they would steer you in the right direction. I can only remember one or two mids during my four years there that were ever serious about the SEALs so it's definitely not something big.

It's the Merchant Marine Academy, so unless you're interested in a maritime education and the life that entails, you might want to look at other options.

Seals do however do some training at KP as they did this past spring. A few of their boats and transport vehicles were there when I visited. Pretty cool stuff. But someone connected to the academy should be along soon to give you a more in depth answer.

Two mids were picked this year for BUDS , the Navy Seal School. A third student was not selected.

Just a little honest research regarding Kings Point prior to asking this sort of question might be insightful.

Kram1 said:

Just a little honest research regarding Kings Point prior to asking this sort of question might be insightful.

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Kram1, ouch. Seriously, the ? was fine---no need to slap anyone for asking a ?.

aooga15 said:

Kram1, ouch. Seriously, the ? was fine---no need to slap anyone for asking a ?.

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I did search...and the answers didn't really help. That's why I created the thread, to see if anyone had any more experience with SEALs at King's Point. If anyone could help, it would be greatly appreciated.

Not being ugly at all...just if you search the site fully you find what the purpose of the Merchant marine Academy is and why one would know instantly that it is not the ideal place for someone interested in becoming a seal. can it happen...sure, it has and it has recently, but that is not the stated purpose of the US Merchant Marine Academy. It is not Plan B for someone who may not get into the Naval Academy or any other service academy that is their first choice. It is a "first choice" opportunity in my book, and it has a purpose and a charter from the US government to graduate merchant seamen. Would like folks to understand. The fact that Kings Point provides options that far and away exceed the options upon graduation offered by the other service academies does not alter the stated mission of the US Merchant Marine Academy. As an admissions field rep I often run into those who ask this sort of question and it is pretty easy to tell that they have not done their research or that they see KP as some sort of Plan B in case they don't get their first choice. It is important that prospective Midshipmen know full well the purpose and charge of the Academy. That's all...and a full review of the website can give one that correct perspective.

Again...not any intention to offend...just to inform. That is all.... carry on.

aooga15 said:

Kram1, ouch. Seriously, the ? was fine---no need to slap anyone for asking a ?.

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Oh, sure...let's give every one a ribbon and trophy and pretend that the stated mission of KP is not really the stated mission. That way we can give Congress one more reason to withhold funding and seek to close the place down like it has in the not so distant past...remember Al Gore????

The Academy has a mission and that mission is given to it by Congress...if the mission is not accomplished, why have and fund the place at all as the Naval Academy, West Point and AFA and Coast Guard can do all the "other stuff". KP exists to educate and gradute Merchant Seamen first and foremost. That should be a prime goal of each and every Midshipmen entering the Academy. Now, are there options if plans for careers change while attending...absolutely. That's the great thing about Kings Point. But, if a majority of grads do not "meet the mission's goal" it opens up a whole big can of worms with Congress and those who are not the biggest of supporters anyway these days. So, no not being harsh. Just making sure folks know why the Academy exists in the first place.

Kramthis,
I completely understand your thoughts and even a little frustration on this matter as I am sure it comes up a lot when people first learn about KP. Even my own DS first thought of KP as a back up to USCGA. Then a month or so passed and he learned what KP was really about. All of that learning came from Service Academy Forums by the way. Guess what? He realized he liked KP's purpose as well. Then combine that with the fact that even more opportunities were available, KP became his number one pick. When he finally got to overnight at both places he knew in his heart KP was the right fit. Since we are in the middle of the country and have had no family members who were mariners, plenty-o-farmers, the idea of being a professional mariner had actually never been considered up to that point. Today I recieved a video from the bridge of DS's ship getting hit by 35-40 foot waves. He is loving it!

Hehe on the Kramer-this. I have always thought that one I see your handle

I find it sad when some poor youngster comes on and asks a question about KP and going active duty. They then get a lecture from someone about learn the mission of the Merchant Marine Academy blah blah blah. I think some folks need to wake up and smell the Coffee! I've watched four graduations classes now. I see mids wearing Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine, and Coast Guard uniforms. Also add flight slots to all the above branches. I also remember two mids being awarded Seal slots.(not sure if thats what you call it)

I've also learned from my active duty friends that the Merchant Marine Academy Grads are highly regarded in the active duty world. Also KP grads can fix just about anything from a CG to a F/A-18.

Oh and someone better tell Captain Robert Johnson about this active duty thing.

just my 2 cents

luv2fly

luv2fly said:

I find it sad when some poor youngster comes on and asks a question about KP and going active duty. They then get a lecture from someone about learn the mission of the Merchant Marine Academy blah blah blah. I think some folks need to wake up and smell the Coffee!

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What is sadder is those who don't realize that the more "active duty" slots that come out of KP, the less the Congress and the taxpayers will see the need for the USMMA, as duplicating the efforts of ROTC and the other academies makes it unnecessary.

30%-35% of grads going to active duty military branches, from The United States Merchant Marine Academy, will ultimately be the reason it closes.

I think some folks need to wake up and smell the coffee, indeed.

I don't think that's coffee that the last poster is smelling. KP has a long history of producing AD officers for all services and given the number of sailing jobs in the US Deep water shipping industry it's a good thing for KP's long term existence to produce a reasonably large number of graduates who go on AD in all of the services as it demosntrates just what a versatile and utilitarian educational opportunity it provides the nation.
The OP's question though: is KP a good place to get a virtual guarantee on a slot to Buds post graduation? No, I don't think it's any better than any other school. While USNA has slots they are tasked with filling for the SEALS, everyone else to my knowledge is competing to get those slots. The OP asked this same question on the SMC forum about VMI about guaranteed SEAL slots and my answer is the same- these are good schools that will teach you a lot about self discipline, functioning under pressure and functioning as a team. But they are not going to guarantee you a place at Coronado- you will compete with the larger pool and to be successful will be becasue you have hit all the right buttons- that demonstrate excellence, commitment, physical toughness and mental stability. You need to want to go to KP or any other school for what it offers you - KP will offer you a lot: a pretty much free education, the chance to graduate with a license to work in a highly compensated industry or to go on active Duty as a military officer in any of the services, and to get some experiences while in College that no other school offers - the chance to sail for a year as a student. In return, it demands a lot. Sea year makes this a very challenging place academically just trying to cram those 4 years of classwork into 3 years. Go to KP because you want to go to KP. If you really want a guaranteed shot at BUDS- you probably should be talking to the Navy recruiter and the people at USNA who at least have a quota to fill for NSW. But if you want a great and unique education, are interested in the maritime world, with the possibility of getting selected by the Navy to go to BUDS- then KP is a pretty good place to consider.

Wrong, and backwards. Maybe the last poster is smelling is something else as well.

In the era of "cost cutting" that is here and now, those who dole out the money (Congress) will recognize the irrelevance of duplicating the results of the military academies and ROTC at KP, instead of fulfilling the USMMA mission, which is to produce merchant mariners.

Not interested in debating it in this thread, but talk to KP grads (like I do) and they'll tell you the same thing - the more and more who go AD, the faster the demise of KP arrives.

There is no advantage having a "KP trained" Air Force officer over a AROTC or USAFA grad. That goes for the USMA, USCGA, and USNA as well.

KP would ensure its own relevance by keeping their percentage of grads who choose AD at less than 25%, lest they hang themselves with their own rope (or line).

I have heard the debate about the mission of USMMA for quite a while now. I think the best advice here and the one my DS took was to visit the school and see if it is right for you. My son at first thought he wanted to be a helicopter pilot. After seeing what KP has to offer he has changed his mind. He is out at sea and fully enjoying the experience. Good luck with your decision.

Congress will never "see the light" because they aren't looking. You cannot assign logic to any high level decisions within government. It just simply never factors into the equation.

Some of us don't like the militarization of KP, but guess what? Theres nothing any of us can do about it. KP died as a MARITIME school with the installation of Tom Matteson in the early 90s. We've had nothing but a parade of retired military as superintendant ever since.

To the OP ...
Go enlist. As long as you meet all the requirements you have a near 100% chance of getting a slot.
If you want to be a SEAL Officer ... go enlist and when the time comes put in for LDO or CWO. Your select percentage is light years higher and even if you don't get the O slot, you're still a SEAL.

While Kings Point is primarily a maritime school, it is also important to remember that life is not defined and no one knows where they are going to end up. During my sea year, I sailed with a Chief that dropped out of KP his plebe year, later graduated from California Maritime, went active duty on a SEAL slot, and after the Navy sailed on his license through the union hall. He was someone who was truly comfortable in every situation at sea or ashore, and in all honesty, it was nice having him on the crew as we were going through pirate waters.

bruno said:

and given the number of sailing jobs in the US Deep water shipping industry

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In my outsider opinion, the above sentence fragment is the key to KP's continueing existence. The AD percentages would be a much smaller concern if we had a robust and healthy US deep water shipping industry.

Packer said:

In my outsider opinion, the above sentence fragment is the key to KP's continueing existence. The AD percentages would be a much smaller concern if we had a robust and healthy US deep water shipping industry.

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KP doesn't need an 'AD quota' to justify its existence. This antiquated notion that everyone is going to sail on a deep sea ship traveling around the world but if they can't, "oh gee whiz they can always go AD in the USxx" is absurd.

U.S.-flag deep sea shipping is just about dead and is not coming back, at least to anything close to what it once was. The reasons for that and what to do about it are numerous, but for now, that's not where the jobs are. Sorry, but that's the reality.

The future of the merchant marine in the U.S is in smaller coastwise/inshore vessels, particularly those supporting the oil industry. KP needs to reorganize in a way that prepares the students for work on OSVs, tugs, ATBs, drillships, etc. The sailing jobs are out there (a few companies in the GoM are booming right now) and the employers want educated, smart people (from all of the maritime academies) to run their vessels. This shift of focus should not be viewed as a deviation from KP's mission, but rather a response to the needs of the industry as it sits right now and in the foreseeable future. These companies and their owners are taxpayers too (to some extent).

Enough of the "whining" of the lack of a deep sea fleet. Yes, it's important but leaving grads high and dry while reminiscing about the good 'ol days when we had more ships than anyone else, in the hopes that such a fleet returns, is a disservice to the taxpayer and the student/graduate. It would be akin to KP holding off on starting an engineering program when the transition from sail to steam was made - those aren't coming back either.