Interesting Statistics for Comparison and Thoght

Below is a link to recent statistics on "Senior Military Colleges" as the article states - according to the Army, a U.S. Senior Military College (SMC) is one of six schools that offer military Reserve Officers' Training Corps (ROTC) programs and are specifically recognized under 10 USC 2111(a). These military schools have a corps of cadets, where students have formation, do physical training and wear uniforms.

http://fbelitemag.com/articles/2012/04/01/1154563

I found the statistics in the article very interesting. From time to time on this forum we frequently talk about how regardless of comeptition to get in because of all the requirements of USMMA it is very challenging to get through. Anectdotally or otherwise we frequently talk about the ~33% washout rate and cite that as proof. As noted SMC's also have basically pretty rigorous to say the least regimental program, though they do not have the increased issue of squeezing credits for a BS into three years on Campus. That said the statistics cited seem to indicate the majority of these programs have a four year graduation rate of ~67% or a washout rate of 33%. The exception being North Georgia College and State University which has a four year graduation rate of just 27%. Note these statistics are only for students in these schools Corps of Cadets.

My point is that when thinking about any of the programs discussed in these forums, none of them are easy roads to hoe and I believe that it continues to be essential that the entering Freshman be truly motivated and focused on their own personal decision to attend any of them - including of course USMMA. Also there's no reason for any of us in any of these communities to slight any of the others - we can all just be "snobby" together relative to how much better, harder, etc any of our favorite is cmpared to "regular colleges."

Amen brother

Found this information even more relative to USMMA and other places with engineering and how hard the USMMA is, even if it didn't have the Regiment. You can only get a Bachelor of Science in Engineering at Kings Point. After studying this article, it's no wonder that there is such a high wash-out rate at KP.

By the way, if the Academies eliminate second chances regarding academics, they will be graduating classes with a wash-out rate of a lot more than 33%.

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/20/why-students-leave-the-engineering-track/#more-141937

kpbaseballmom said:

Found this information even more relative to USMMA and other places with engineering and how hard the USMMA is, even if it didn't have the Regiment. You can only get a Bachelor of Science in Engineering at Kings Point. After studying this article, it's no wonder that there is such a high wash-out rate at KP.

By the way, if the Academies eliminate second chances regarding academics, they will be graduating classes with a wash-out rate of a lot more than 33%.

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/20/why-students-leave-the-engineering-track/#more-141937

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Perhaps not. Admin standards are increasing each year. Word travels quickly in the KP community, and they will all know "no second chances". Our '16 has reminded us on several occasions, "everyone here is smart to handle the course material, the question is can they manage the time". That would be one good sentence to hammer home to incoming plebe candidates...and the regiment in total.

I would be curious to know the voluntary/involuntary wash out rate if such a statistic exists.

To AMF's point, most everyone always had the "smarts" to get through KP. It takes a lot more than just intelligence. It takes a very large amount of persistence, ability to be humble (to ask to help - everyone will have to at some point), to be able to put up with Regimental tasks, some of which appear to defy logic, can you handle the freedom and responsibilities of Sea Year and get your projects done, can tolerate being yelled at and put it in perspective, are you mature enough to see the big picture, and a lot of other qualities.

People were recently sent home who had decent GPA's. It's not always the academics that trip up people. Academics is only a part of the puzzle.

kpbaseballmom said:

Found this information even more relative to USMMA and other places with engineering and how hard the USMMA is, even if it didn't have the Regiment. You can only get a Bachelor of Science in Engineering at Kings Point. After studying this article, it's no wonder that there is such a high wash-out rate at KP.

By the way, if the Academies eliminate second chances regarding academics, they will be graduating classes with a wash-out rate of a lot more than 33%.

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/20/why-students-leave-the-engineering-track/#more-141937

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I am not going to go read the whole study but I suspect this is taking it out of context.

There’s a lot of meat in the report, but I found this chart to be particularly striking:

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I find it hard to believe that there are many engineers graduating in 4 years and only studying 18.5 hrs per week of academic instruction. I graduated in the late '80's and spent considerably more than 27 hours, probably closer to the 40 hr mark and it took me 4.5 years to finish. I was not alone as my classmates spent a similar amount of time. When I graduated and entered the work force I could not believe the amount of free time I had even with working a lot of overtime. Also, the engineering "wash-out" was at least 33%

So very true KPbaseball. The "logic" of the regiment is a huge factor, and must truly be something that must be experienced. How do you explain to incoming candidate, that he/she will get restriction, latrine duty etc., for what may be the simplest of violations. Especially when your perception is that others are getting less punishment for bigger violations.

According to my DS, "when you get 'stuck', they only ask you questions that you can be wrong no matter what your answer"!

I quietly laughed, but that is certainly additional "stuff" on top of academics and all you mention.

Possible reasons for decrease in study times

I wonder if some of the reason for decreases in study time for science and engineering majors between the 1960's and 2003 that KPbaseballmom found doesn't have to do with increases in productivity rather than poor study habits.

Typing my homework in the late 80s on a typewriter took a heck of a lot longer than typing my work on a computer a couple decades later.

Plus how much time did we spend photocopying books in the past that now can be scanned and emailed with an iPhone.

Productivity increased in the workplace and in the study halls. And maybe folks got lazier also, who knows. Thanks for interesting article.

As my son ...a 2001 KP Grad ... was told during his application process to med school...

"Those that think the hardest part of Med School is getting in, Didn't"!

The very same can be said of KP. The hardest part is not in the "getting in", it is in the "staying in". Only the truly motivated should apply!

The reward is a great education and a great career with many many opportunities for success! It is absolutely worth it, but it is not for the faint of heart nor the lightly motivated. No shame in that either. Plenty of great colleges and universities. Just make sure you are heading to KP for the "right" reasons and that you are highly motivated to do whatever it takes to stay and graduate. You will be extremely happy that you did!

Kram nailed it!

Starting at KP is not nearly as hard as finishing at KP!

AMF said:

Kram nailed it!

Starting at KP is not nearly as hard as finishing at KP!

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Or even the first year. . . .

Being Ready for the REAL World

kpbaseballmom said:

To AMF's point, most everyone always had the "smarts" to get through KP. It takes a lot more than just intelligence. It takes a very large amount of persistence, ability to be humble (to ask to help - everyone will have to at some point), to be able to put up with Regimental tasks, some of which appear to defy logic, can you handle the freedom and responsibilities of Sea Year and get your projects done, can tolerate being yelled at and put it in perspective, are you mature enough to see the big picture, and a lot of other qualities.

People were recently sent home who had decent GPA's. It's not always the academics that trip up people. Academics is only a part of the puzzle.

Click to expand...

Not only in the world of KP, but these will happen in their career choices also. My DD is now in the career world and is fully equipped for what happens there by what she experienced in the KP world(above quote).