House OKs 2-Yr Jail Term for Military Sex Assault, Cadets and Mids Included

Luigi59

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"Being in a military uniform should not be a get-out-of-jail card," said Rep. Mike Turner, R-Ohio, who proposed the measure that House lawmakers included in the bill authorizing spending for the 2014 fiscal year, which begins Oct. 1.

The House Armed Services Committee last week approved provisions in the defense bill that included stripping military commanders of the power to overturn convictions in rape and sexual assault cases. The panel also voted to require that anyone found guilty of a sex-related crime receive a punishment that includes, at a minimum, a dismissal from military service or a dishonorable discharge.

Officers, commissioned warrant officers, cadets and midshipmen convicted of rape, sexual assault, forcible sodomy or attempts to commit those offenses would be dismissed under a mandatory minimum sentence. Enlisted personnel and noncommissioned warrant officers convicted of similar crimes would be dishonorably discharged.

Turner and other lawmakers argued on Thursday that they needed to add a minimum sentence to that punishment. Yet several Democratic women opposed the step, arguing that while confinement was appropriate, Congress should wait for a Defense Department report on sentencing guidelines.

There was also talk this week about letting local civilian authorities prosecute military members for sexual assault crimes, but apparently that has gone away.
 
Yeah, that's a dumb proposal. They CAN be tried by a civilian court.... it's called the Supreme Court...

That kind of proposal is from someone who doesn't understand the system and has watched "Courage Under Fire" and "The General's Daughter" one too many times.

Care to elaborate? The perception has been created that the military does not take sexual assault seriously. This hasn't just occured over the last week or two. Is the perception justified? Maybe, maybe not.

Perception becomes reality and the reaction is if the military can't/won't take care of this we will do it for them. Will it solve the problem? no but it does apply more pressure to improve the situation.
 
Care to elaborate? The perception has been created that the military does not take sexual assault seriously. This hasn't just occured over the last week or two. Is the perception justified? Maybe, maybe not.

Perception becomes reality and the reaction is if the military can't/won't take care of this we will do it for them. Will it solve the problem? no but it does apply more pressure to improve the situation.

There was a perception for awhile that the world was also flat, perception isn't fact.

Keep in mind these are the same civilian courts that allows O.J. Simpson and Ms. Anthony to go free.

The real perception is military commands don't take sexual assault seriously. The military legal system isn't so far removed from the civilian system, except that it has some tougher rules. The proposal above confuses the process before a case enters the military's legal system with the legal system itself.

The commands and the military justice systems are not the same thing.

The structure of the military system does mimic the civilian system, and at the end of the day, both systems go to the Supreme Court.
 
There was a perception for awhile that the world was also flat, perception isn't fact.
As a former PA guy you know this is not going to fly. If people believe there is a problem there is a problem.

Keep in mind these are the same civilian courts that allows O.J. Simpson and Ms. Anthony to go free.
Irrelevant as this is the court system people are familiar with. I think the above are as guilty as sin but I wasn't on either jury, were you?

The real perception is military commands don't take sexual assault seriously. The military legal system isn't so far removed from the civilian system, except that it has some tougher rules. The proposal above confuses the process before a case enters the military's legal system with the legal system itself.
The bold is the problem I stated (perhaps not clearly). What should they do about it so they do not get forced into something similar to the proposal?
 
As a former PA guy you know this is not going to fly. If people believe there is a problem there is a problem.


Irrelevant as this is the court system people are familiar with. I think the above are as guilty as sin but I wasn't on either jury, were you?


The bold is the problem I stated (perhaps not clearly). What should they do about it so they do not get forced into something similar to the proposal?

1. I didn't say perception wasn't reality. I just said perception isn't fact. But let's also be serious, the outcry is in a relatively small segment of the population. It affects the small group of SAF, and service members/families. It's not a perception, I would say, that is pervasive in the military. It's at the second tier, people who have in interest in the military, without a real knowledge. A tier below that, no one is paying attention. I've talked to ONE person about this, and I started the conversation. Everyone else is talking about the NSA, IRS, AP, State Department sex issues, and Benghazi. The Deputy Director of the CIA and the Surgeon General stepped down a few days ago.

2. I never said they were guilty. I just said they were let free. But to answer the question, not only wasn't I on the jury, I refused to follow the cases.

3. There's nothing to do about the courts, it's about reporting. A judge isn't attacked because a police officer beats someone. The police force is taken to task, not the courts. If there is an issue with reporting in the military, the issue isn't with the courts that never get a case, the issue is with the system that doesn't bring cases to the court. A military court has a REAL judge. The lawyers have passed their bar exams. A military court, in many ways, is stricter than a civilian court, and the penalties can be more severe.
 
1. I didn't say perception wasn't reality. I just said perception isn't fact. But let's also be serious, the outcry is in a relatively small segment of the population. It affects the small group of SAF, and service members/families. It's not a perception, I would say, that is pervasive in the military. It's at the second tier, people who have in interest in the military, without a real knowledge. A tier below that, no one is paying attention. I've talked to ONE person about this, and I started the conversation. Everyone else is talking about the NSA, IRS, AP, State Department sex issues, and Benghazi. The Deputy Director of the CIA and the Surgeon General stepped down a few days ago.

2. I never said they were guilty. I just said they were let free. But to answer the question, not only wasn't I on the jury, I refused to follow the cases.

3. There's nothing to do about the courts, it's about reporting. A judge isn't attacked because a police officer beats someone. The police force is taken to task, not the courts. If there is an issue with reporting in the military, the issue isn't with the courts that never get a case, the issue is with the system that doesn't bring cases to the court. A military court has a REAL judge. The lawyers have passed their bar exams. A military court, in many ways, is stricter than a civilian court, and the penalties can be more severe.

1. Likely mostly true but it does have the attention of some members of Congress.

2. Ok, but you brought them up. I kind of wonder why.

3. I don't disagree but there are some that say the reporting issue and the prosecuting (perception)are linked.

I have no idea if the problem is significantly higher than the problem in society as a whole. I would like to believe it is a smaller problem but just more heavily scrutinized. The military has a high standard to live up to and will always be a target for some.
 
I would think (i.e., don't know) that courts martial would also offer some flexibility as far as charges go. Like, conduct unbecoming and Article 92 would be applicable in certain situations, right?
 
1. Likely mostly true but it does have the attention of some members of Congress.

2. Ok, but you brought them up. I kind of wonder why.

3. I don't disagree but there are some that say the reporting issue and the prosecuting (perception)are linked.

I have no idea if the problem is significantly higher than the problem in society as a whole. I would like to believe it is a smaller problem but just more heavily scrutinized. The military has a high standard to live up to and will always be a target for some.

1. True, but so did spending money to discover the "cover up" of Tupac's killer. I've never defined what's important by the agenda of a group of people who's careers depend on keeping certain groups happy.

2. Like the number of licks it takes to get to the center of a Tootsie roll Tootsie pop.... the world may never know.

3. And they would be wrong. If you've ever listened to the Art Bell radio show (and I happened upon it, one late night) you'll remember, just because people are saying it, doesn't mean it is grounded in anything close to reality.

Keep in mind, this is a Congress that honored Ted Kennedy. Their "focus" on assaults don't extend to who they call friends.
 
included stripping military commanders of the power to overturn convictions in rape and sexual assault cases

This flies in the face of the civilian system. It's putting commanders on par with Governors and POTUS.
 
How about this case
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...hter-pilot-sparks-protest-at-tucson-base?lite

Kim Hanks reported that Lt. Col. James Wilkerson assaulted her in March 2012 at his former home on the Aviano Air Base In Italy.
A jury composed of five military officers found Wilkerson guilty of aggravated sexual assault in November. Wilkerson, who declined comment for this article through an Air Force spokesman, then was sentenced to a year in the brig and ordered to be removed from the service. In February, however, Air Force Lt. Gen. Craig Franklin reviewed the case, quashed the conviction and dismissed all of the punishments.

Lt. Col Wilkerson is stationed at Davis Monthan AFB today, because a 3 star overturned the conviction.
 
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Not allowing a commander to overturn is OK. So long as they still provide some form of appeal court process.

I can't believe that general Franklin just flippenly dismissed the case, charges, and conviction. He obviously found something worth questioning. But sometimes, cases become so heated, that they turn into a witch hunt. E.g Zimmerman/Trevon case. Sometimes it becomes impossible to maintain objectivity. Especially for the public if they don't know all the facts, but they want to pretend they do.

Again; not saying they shouldn't disallow commanders from overturning a ruling. If they truly think there may be a conflict of interest. But it is imperative that the accused/convicted still has the means for an appeal. Without having to jump straight to the supreme court.
 
Mike,

This is the cynical side of me regarding Gen. Frankin overturning Lt. Col. Wilkerson's case.

It is not what you know, but whom you know.
 
I can't believe that general Franklin just flippenly dismissed the case, charges, and conviction. He obviously found something worth questioning.

Despite the fact that a full court martial and a jury of 5 military officers, who listened to all the testimony and heard all the evidence and was present for the entire court martial trial reached a different conclusion.

:rolleyes:

The actions of Lt. Gen. Craig Franklin stink.

And it's not the first time an USAF general has effectively "pardoned" an officer in the Air Force after a court martial conviction for sexual assault.

Lt. Gen. Susan Helms actions are just as revolting.

Sen. Claire McCaskill (D-Mo.) said Friday that she would be sustaining her hold against Lt. Gen. Susan Helms to become vice commander of U.S. Space Command.

In a statement entered into the congressional record, McCaskill said that she was blocking the nomination because Helms had overturned a guilty verdict in a sexual assault case last year.

“With her action, Lt. Gen. Helms sent a damaging message to survivors of sexual assault who are seeking justice in the military justice system,” McCaskill said.

Thankfully, both of these generals are being investigated by the Senate over their actions in 2 separate cases.

They both should be fired.
 
Yeah, I'm not sure. I'd be willing to have that changed, unless there is a good argument for allowing for this kind of thing to happen.

There is already an appeals process.
 
“Based on all the letters submitted in clemency, in strong support of him, by people who know him, such behavior appeared highly incongruent,” Franklin wrote.

We allknow friends and family are the best source of information when it comes to understanding Guilt or Innocence.

here is what Gary Ridgway friends thought of him:(not the comparing the two man but how poorly friends and family can truly know someone)

The man sitting in front of Mary Ellen O'Toole was, she says, a well-mannered guy. "He was low-key. He was nice. He didn't swear." He was very proud of his work, which he described in polite, pleasant tones.

His name was Gary Ridgway. His other name was the Green River Killer. His work was killing at least 49 women in Washington state throughout the 1980s and 1990s. He did it all while maintaining marriages, parenting and church-going, and he seemed very much the word neighbors often use to describe men who turn out to have headless torsos in their freezers. Which is to say, he seemed very, very nice.
 
I wait for the interviews where someone says "Oh yeah, he was my neighbor for 10 years, our kids played together and I can totally see him cutting off women's heads."


I tend not to associate with people I think will kill or rape others. Yes, I ride the Metro each day with people who probably fit that description, but not people I'm friends with.


That also begs the question, how valuable is the interview process in a background check?
 
I wait for the interviews where someone says "Oh yeah, he was my neighbor for 10 years, our kids played together and I can totally see him cutting off women's heads."


I tend not to associate with people I think will kill or rape others. Yes, I ride the Metro each day with people who probably fit that description, but not people I'm friends with.


That also begs the question, how valuable is the interview process in a background check?

One (first) time shooters have these statements made all the time:
Neighbor of Alabama gunman: "He made it very clear...that any animals or people that came onto his property would be killed"
As the nation's most recent gun-related incident developed in Alabama, on Wednesday "Piers Morgan Tonight" invited neighbors of the suspected gunman to supply their first-hand perspective on the ways in which he reportedly had been leading his life.

"He was just strange," said Casper McNich, in an exclusive live interview. "After he moved on the property, then he put up a barbed-wire fence, started cutting down all the trees, like he had a clear view of anything so he wasn't attacked or something. So really, I pretty much avoided him."
 
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