Disenrollment during 2nd or 1st class year

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AdamKokes

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Hi.

I have heard that if I am dis-enrolled at the Merchant Academy during the 3rd or 4th year of my studies the U.S. Government solicit me for a monetary re-coupment that could be six figures or >$100,000.

I want to know first of all how common is it for someone to be disenrolled during these years. This seems like a huge risk to me. I'm not that alcohol/drugs/etc type but its scary. What if I slip on a fitness test once? then I just owe the US GOVT a fat amount of cash....

Can anybody help to ease these fears

Thanks,

Adam
 
AdamKokes said:
Hi.

I have heard that if I am dis-enrolled at the Merchant Academy during the 3rd or 4th year of my studies the U.S. Government solicit me for a monetary re-coupment that could be six figures or >$100,000.

I want to know first of all how common is it for someone to be disenrolled during these years. This seems like a huge risk to me. I'm not that alcohol/drugs/etc type but its scary. What if I slip on a fitness test once? then I just owe the US GOVT a fat amount of cash....

Can anybody help to ease these fears

Thanks,

Adam
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They wont kick you out for PT by they will kick you out for honor violations or criminal acts. They have a vested interest to get you through the place so that you can be productive in future service... so they really are on your side. For physical conditioning they will assign you remedial PT. For academic issues they will assign tutors and study groups.
 
I did see people disenrolled that late for academic issues. One of my classmates was booted out with only three months left to graduation!! My understanding is that you only owe the money if you choose to leave.
 
@KPEngineer That's definitely not correct from doing research on the issue. People who resign or are dis-enrolled after the start of the 2nd class year are subject to repayment...It seems whether or not the government actively tries to collect depends on their mood.

I guess I'll walk a tight-rope. Ha Ha
 
Swabthedecks said:
They wont kick you out for PT
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False. They will. If you fail to score "good" by the Navy standard 3 times in 4 years you'll get the boot.

Swabthedecks said:
They have a vested interest to get you through the place so that you can be productive in future service... so they really are on your side. For physical conditioning they will assign you remedial PT. For academic issues they will assign tutors and study groups.
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They will try and help you, but at the end of the day you have to take care of business. If you fall off the conveyor belt it's hard to get back on. I have, knock on wood, made it 155 credits without failing anything and passed every PRT. Everything here is doable, thousands of people have walked out of the gate with a blue tube. But you should be a little bit afraid all the time. There are safety net programs, but again a lot of the personal responsibility falls on your shoulders to get help when you need it.

I hate to be all doom and gloom but the consequences of what happen here are real. Two seniors were disenrolled for grades and two were set back for conduct at the end of second tri this year.
 
Nevermind...I found the reference table:

MALES: AGE 17 TO 19 YEARSPERFORMANCE POINTS

Points/ Sit ups/ Push ups/ 1.5 mi run

"Maximum" 100 109 92 8:15 6:30 6:20
Outstanding 90 102 86 9:00 7:15 7:05
Excellent 75 90 76 9:45 8:30 8:20
Good 60 62 51 11:00 11:15 11:05
Satisfactory 45 50 42 12:30 12:45 12:35
Failure <45 <50 <42 >12:30 >12:45 >12:35
 
This whole fitness thing seems a little excessive to me since my goal here is only to sail commercially. 51 push ups is kind of a lot, especially when the vast majority of the population can barely do 5-10.
 
AdamKokes said:
@KPEngineer That's definitely not correct from doing research on the issue. People who resign or are dis-enrolled after the start of the 2nd class year are subject to repayment...It seems whether or not the government actively tries to collect depends on their mood.

I guess I'll walk a tight-rope. Ha Ha
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I wouldn't say definitely incorrect. I think the superintendent has the authority to release you from your obligation, and as a matter of practice usually will if you are involuntarily separated. I can't find any basis in the CFRs for this though. There is a line on the website regarding the obligation that reads "To complete the course of instruction at the Academy, unless separated by the Academy;" which might hint at the current practice for what happens to dis-enrolled midshipmen.

Fortunately I have very little first hand knowledge of the separation process and I'd like to keep it that way. My plan is to separate on the 20th of June.
 
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AdamKokes said:
This whole fitness thing seems a little excessive to me since my goal here is only to sail commercially. 51 push ups is kind of a lot, especially when the vast majority of the population can barely do 5-10.
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50 pull ups is excessive, 50 push ups shouldn't be. If you can't do that.... I'd recommend figuring out how to start.
 
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AdamKokes said:
This whole fitness thing seems a little excessive to me since my goal here is only to sail commercially. 51 push ups is kind of a lot, especially when the vast majority of the population can barely do 5-10.
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That is a great goal and the right reason to come to KP, but like it or not you're also commissioning in the Navy... soooo you gotta play ball when it comes to the Navy's standards.
 
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beyond said:
I wouldn't say definitely incorrect. I think the superintendent has the authority to release you from your obligation, and as a matter of practice usually will if you are involuntarily separated. I can't find any basis in the CFRs for this though. There is a line on the website regarding the obligation that reads "To complete the course of instruction at the Academy, unless separated by the Academy;" which might hint at the current practice for what happens to dis-enrolled midshipmen.

Fortunately I have very little first hand knowledge of the separation process and I'd like to keep it that way. My plan is to separate on the 20th of June.
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There's always someone "higher" than the Superintendant. Now, I don't know USMMA's process exactly. In the Coast Guard, the Coast Guard Academy superintentnant can make these kinds of recommendations, but those recommendations come to Washington, D.C., for a final decision.
 
LineInTheSand said:
There's always someone "higher" than the Superintendant. Now, I don't know USMMA's process exactly. In the Coast Guard, the Coast Guard Academy superintentnant can make these kinds of recommendations, but those recommendations come to Washington, D.C., for a final decision.
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I think you're right. It is the Secretary of Transportation.

LIS, do you do anything other than post on SAF all day?
 
@beyond I also have admission at two maritime academies (Cal Maritime and Texas Maritime) which don't have the stringent requirements. I'm thinking it might be less of a risk to go there. But I'm also very interested in the "Harbor Pilot" job. Do you know if its very competitive to become a pilot or if a lot of people at KP are focused on becoming pilots or being a graduate of KP helps you to become a Harbor Pilot.
 
I mean, even if I couldn't become a pilot I would still love to sail, 1 month on/1 month off would be preferable, but if I have to sail for longer periods, I don't think I'd have an issue.
 
AdamKokes said:
@beyond I also have admission at two maritime academies (Cal Maritime and Texas Maritime) which don't have the stringent requirements. I'm thinking it might be less of a risk to go there. But I'm also very interested in the "Harbor Pilot" job. Do you know if its very competitive to become a pilot or if a lot of people at KP are focused on becoming pilots or being a graduate of KP helps you to become a Harbor Pilot.
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The answer to becoming a pilot is a really really really long one.

http://floridapilots.com/wordpress/?page_id=257 Spells out the requirements for getting there in Florida for example, highly sought after jobs for sure. It is very competitive, and something that you won't be striking for any time soon. If you want to be a pilot or sail in general KP is the place to go. The fact that you do your on the job training on real ships is huge, the alumni network is strong in all kinds of industries, and getting to have the title of "Federal Academy Graduate" carries a lot of weight, especially outside of the industry. Plus, it's free!

If you're really worried about the PT stuff get rollin' on the 100 push up/200 sit up plan, I was in your shoes before indoc and those programs get me all set up.

http://www.hundredpushups.com/
http://www.twohundredsitups.com/
 
The Harbor Pilots are very much an insiders network although not exclusively, and being from KP will only help. I have classmates as Harbor Pilots in almost every major, and plenty of minor, ports around the US. Some got the jobs right out of school but most sailed for a while first.

If you want a 28/28 day schedule leading to a pilot, try river boats on the Mississippi. I have one classmate who did that.

As for increasing your PT scores, I developed the "+1" program while at sea. Nothing earth shattering, I just picked a number and started, I think 25. I picked a number that wasn't easy but that I knew I could do a few more. The next day I did "+1". Do that four times a day ... reveille, lunch break, end of work day, bed time. By the time I got back to school I was rocking 100+ push ups.

Let me get this straight ... you are considering a state school to not have to do the PRT? You are willing to pay $100K to not have to 50 push ups, twice a year for four years? 100,000/400 = 250 $/pushup
 
AdamKokes,

Be a little more confident too. Don't assume you'll fail physical requirements, just because. You can work out and run and lift etc. KP doesn't want students failing either. It's a good time to figure out what your weaknesses are now, and work to better them. If you struggle, get some help. But don't let a simple thing like "push ups" be the deciding factor in your future. You will be challenged at USMMA, and you'll realize that you can do more than you ever thought you could.

When you start down this road, looking at service academies, yes it can feel overwhelming. "Will I be able to take the yelling?" "Can I survive the math or science requirements?" "Will I break?" "Will I let people down at home if I can't do it?"

These are natural questions that come, in some form, to us all, at some point. If you try to tackling them all at once, it will feel like you'll never be able to do anything. But the secret is.... you can.
 
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