Leadership sports score

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brovol

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I was looking at a study done by Rand regarding west point admissions and how effective the formula is at predicting success at the academy and beyond. One of the tables was regarding the leadership score, and the 10% applied to athletic activity. It provided the formula used by west point, and it appears being a captain of certain sports is significantly higher than others. Baseball, football and basketball get 100 points more than other sports. In order to make up the point difference a candidate needs to be captain of two teams.

My son will be captain of the soccer team, and possibly baseball next year, but baseball comes so late in the year that the academies won't even score that I doubt.

Does Naval Academy do the same thing?
 
Nobody knows except the admissions board what really will get a young person an appointment. They are a group of officers and civilians who many times are graduates of the place itself and we don't know what rings their chimes. Sports are important but they are not the only thing. Being a captain of a sports team can be good but there are captains and there are captains. The admissions board knows that duties of a sports captain can range from a lot to absolutely nothing. They crank in the real world into a lot in their deliberations and points and scores may give strong indications but the perfect high scoring candidate can still be easily passed over. Numbers just are not it and thank goodness there is a lot of human judgement or else it would all done in 15 seconds by a computer.

Chances are very strong your son will be looked at favorably for his past sports participation but it will be his whole picture that will get him in. Just to put your mind at ease, though, late achievements (like a captainship of a baseball team) can be added via email to his Regional Director plus his Blue and Gold Officer Interview should pick it up if your son remembers to mention it. Good luck to him.
 
Thanks for the reply.

In michigan baseball doesn't start until April, and the coach picks senior captains before the first game. Regardless, my question was based on what I read, which appears to provide an objective formula awarding 700 points for a varsity football, baseball, or basketball captain, but only 600 for a captain of another sport. Soccer is a pretty skilled and competitive sport, and at many schools is bigger than football. But if the formula is applied, the judgment of the admissions team is removed and the points control.

I was surprised to find the study, as it seemed to provide some insight to the west point process.
 
So you need to be realistic...figure that your son may not get the "extra" 100 points and try improving in other areas. I presume there are a ton more captains that are appointed to West Point that do not play baseball, basketball, or football. I do not know point breakdown for varsity captains (if there is any at all) at USNA, but the same logic would apply. You can't control Admission policies unless you write Admissions or your MOC. I would not lose sleep over 100 points, it is probably minute in the grand scheme.
 
Not losing sleep. Just want son to be as informed as possible. He doesn't think it is that big a deal either, and probably it isn't. It is just curious that some sports are considered more important than others.
 
I don't believe USNA publishes this info, but I believe USNA does place more value on sports captains for team sports. None of us know how much of a 'value'.
 
I didn't think west point published it either, but it was in the study I saw. But it treated some team sports captains better than other team sports captains.
 
DS was captain of soccer team--swam, but wasn't captain. He was involved in many other "leadership" positions. It's doable. Just be active in the community and school.
 
I do not know how the Naval Academy's formula works, but my guess is even if they do give more points to certain sports - in the end it doesn't make a big difference in the applicant's total score. The local area USNA '19 class has a range of sports involvement - from a few HS football players to those in martial arts and rec leagues.
 
usnabgo08 said:
So you need to be realistic...figure that your son may not get the "extra" 100 points and try improving in other areas. I presume there are a ton more captains that are appointed to West Point that do not play baseball, basketball, or football. I do not know point breakdown for varsity captains (if there is any at all) at USNA, but the same logic would apply. You can't control Admission policies unless you write Admissions or your MOC. I would not lose sleep over 100 points, it is probably minute in the grand scheme.
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Would playing a sport where there are no captains have much effect? I do varsity track (4 years varsity, 2 years letter), but we don't have captains. Also, let's say I pass the CFA (and get decent scores), I am academically qualified (32 ACT, 2100 SAT, 4.3 GPA with all AP classes), and medically qualified, and I am the only candidate from my congressional district who applies and gets the nomination to USNA. Does that mean I am guaranteed admission? I've heard the people I'm competing with those in my nomination pool (which in this case would be those in my house or representatives district). I live in a district which only has maybe 1-2 applicants a year for USNA (most from here go to USAFA). Could you tell me how that will work for me?
 
First, I've never heard that USNA values certain sports over others as a general premise in admissions. The fact that West Point does or doesn't do something in their admissions decisions is not really relevant to what USNA does.

Certainly, some athletes in various sports are "blue chip," which can help. USNA likes to see participation in team sports but, that said, plenty of mids come from individual sports. Being a team captain will give you a small "bump," but so will many other things such as great CFA, great SATs, strong teacher recs, etc. As BGO08 said, don't stress over it. Play the sport(s) you enjoy and/or that you're good at. Do well on your CFA. Make yourself otherwise the best candidate you can.

Would playing a sport where there are no captains have much effect? I am academically qualified (32 ACT, 2100 SAT, 4.3 GPA with all AP classes), and medically qualified, and I am the only candidate from my congressional district who applies and gets the nomination to USNA. Does that mean I am guaranteed admission?
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First of all, there are no guarantees. However, if you are fully qualified, and if you are the only person from your district who is fully qualified, and your MOC has at least one slot open in the year you apply, you certainly have a very good shot.
 
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usna1985 said:
First, I've never heard that USNA values certain sports over others as a general premise in admissions. The fact that West Point does or doesn't do something in their admissions decisions is not really relevant to what USNA does.

Certainly, some athletes in various sports are "blue chip," which can help. USNA likes to see participation in team sports but, that said, plenty of mids come from individual sports. Being a team captain will give you a small "bump," but so will many other things such as great CFA, great SATs, strong teacher recs, etc. As BGO08 said, don't stress over it. Play the sport(s) you enjoy and/or that you're good at. Do well on your CFA. Make yourself otherwise the best candidate you can.

Would playing a sport where there are no captains have much effect? I am academically qualified (32 ACT, 2100 SAT, 4.3 GPA with all AP classes), and medically qualified, and I am the only candidate from my congressional district who applies and gets the nomination to USNA. Does that mean I am guaranteed admission?
Click to expand...

First of all, there are no guarantees. However, if you are fully qualified, and if you are the only person from your district who is fully qualified, and your MOC has at least one slot open in the year you apply, you certainly have a very good shot.
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Sorry, I have one more question. I was looking at the stickied thread about nomination FAQs, the one that you posted, and you mentioned how the USNA rejected applicants who were 3Qed and prim. Noms. How is this possible? I have heard or primary noms get rhected due to low test scores or medical issues, but by law doesn't the academy have to accept a primary nom if they are 3Qed (I'm assuming 3Q means qualified academically, physically, and medically). What is going on with that? Don't MOC have up to 5 candidates per academy an did a slot opens up they are guaranteed that a candidate from their district who is fully qualified gets in? How is the USNA rejecting a whole district?
 
Hopefulcandidate2016 said:
Sorry, I have one more question. I was looking at the stickied thread about nomination FAQs, the one that you posted, and you mentioned how the USNA rejected applicants who were 3Qed and prim. Noms. How is this possible? I have heard or primary noms get rhected due to low test scores or medical issues, but by law doesn't the academy have to accept a primary nom if they are 3Qed (I'm assuming 3Q means qualified academically, physically, and medically). What is going on with that? Don't MOC have up to 5 candidates per academy an did a slot opens up they are guaranteed that a candidate from their district who is fully qualified gets in? How is the USNA rejecting a whole district?
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The forum was divided into two camps - yes, it could happen and there was something that was not disclosed about that 3Q nominee with primary nom (i.e. he or she might not be actually 3Q s the 3Q determination is made by the admissions office, not by BGO or a candidate and many congressinal offices using inaccurate terminology describing their nomination - perhaps Navy uses "primary" but USMA is "principal," and lastly the moral clause (i.e. some sort of criminal record (DUI) and etc.) . I am in the camp that believes that if a candidate is to be determined by the admissions office to be "3Q" and have a primary (aka. principal) nom, and no moral issues, he or she is in.

Don't waste any energy thinking about this scenario. As in order this to happen, you have to complete your application, you have to be competitive, and you have to get a nomination.
 
It happened two years ago to a very small number of candidates due to a variety of exigent circumstances. Not aware of it happening before or since.

In terms of "rejecting the entire district," in some cases, there was an LOA candidate in the district who was not the principal nominee. So someone from the district may well have been appointed.

The point is that, while an appointment is extremely likely for 3 Q principal nominees, there is no "guarantee."
 
usna1985 said:
It happened two years ago to a very small number of candidates due to a variety of exigent circumstances. Not aware of it happening before or since.

In terms of "rejecting the entire district," in some cases, there was an LOA candidate in the district who was not the principal nominee. So someone from the district may well have been appointed.

The point is that, while an appointment is extremely likely for 3 Q principal nominees, there is no "guarantee."
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Thank you for this. With the military drawdown, I was wondering if they were changing up regulations to fit with the downsizing. As MemberLg said, it could have been issues of character or crimes like DUI, so that helped ease my mind as I have had none of that.
 
MemberLG said:
Hopefulcandidate2016 said:
Sorry, I have one more question. I was looking at the stickied thread about nomination FAQs, the one that you posted, and you mentioned how the USNA rejected applicants who were 3Qed and prim. Noms. How is this possible? I have heard or primary noms get rhected due to low test scores or medical issues, but by law doesn't the academy have to accept a primary nom if they are 3Qed (I'm assuming 3Q means qualified academically, physically, and medically). What is going on with that? Don't MOC have up to 5 candidates per academy an did a slot opens up they are guaranteed that a candidate from their district who is fully qualified gets in? How is the USNA rejecting a whole district?
Click to expand...

The forum was divided into two camps - yes, it could happen and there was something that was not disclosed about that 3Q nominee with primary nom (i.e. he or she might not be actually 3Q s the 3Q determination is made by the admissions office, not by BGO or a candidate and many congressinal offices using inaccurate terminology describing their nomination - perhaps Navy uses "primary" but USMA is "principal," and lastly the moral clause (i.e. some sort of criminal record (DUI) and etc.) . I am in the camp that believes that if a candidate is to be determined by the admissions office to be "3Q" and have a primary (aka. principal) nom, and no moral issues, he or she is in.

Don't waste any energy thinking about this scenario. As in order this to happen, you have to complete your application, you have to be competitive, and you have to get a nomination.
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Thank you for the reply. I myself have stayed clean and no run ins with school, never been suspended or disciplinaey actions, no trouble with the law, etc. Glad to know its not some new trend where everyone is downsizing so districts are losing noms.
 
Since USNA no longer tells candidates if they are 3Q, it would appear that some of the confusion was from those 'assuming' they were 3Q and then starting to draw invalid conclusions about the application process. None of the SA's reveal the exact formula they use, so you can't try to determine what that is just based on one (or a few candidates) you happen to know.

.....To avoid confusion, it is probably better to start a new thread then to tack on an unrelated question to another topic. People don't always read all of the posted replies, so it is easy to get 'off in the weeds' as the thread goes off in various directions.
 
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