Scholarship chances and other questions

DS is applying for both NROTC and AFROTC, and is looking at some pretty elite schools (Ivy League, MIT) where he would also participate in varsity sports and a couple of other schools where he would do ROTC and not compete in athletics (USC & Georgia Tech). Here is a bit on his background:

SAT: 800 Math; 740 Reading
GBA: 3.88 unweighted (75% of his credits were from AP and honors classes)
High School Sports: 5 year letter winner in diving, will be swim/dive team captain his senior year. Placed 10th and 6th in state the last two years.
Club Sports: 8 year participant in Trampoline and Tumbling; won national championships in 2012 and 2013.
Boy Scouts: Achieved rank of Eagle Scout; was Assistant Senior Patrol leader for 12 months and Senior Patrol Leader for 6 months of troop with 50-plus scouts.
National Honor Society
Debate Team Member (3-years)

He is interested in a technical track (Engineering or Computer Science).

He also has a sister at the Naval Academy and will likely be applying there as well, though given the choice I think he would choose an ROTC scholarship at MIT over the Academy.

My first question is how competitive does he look for a 4-year scholarship to one of these elite schools? Second question, he does not have any local public schools he is interested in. Will he need to include one in his list of school choices? Third, can anyone speak to combining ROTC participation along with Varsity athletics participation? Can the time commitment be balanced so you are not hurting how you are viewed within the ROTC program? Final question for now is related to commissioning and service selection. I believe a substantial portion of your ranking which helps determine if you get the service selection you want is your college GPA. Do they factor in the college you went to or just blindly use the GPA you achieved when determining service selections?

Thanks for the feedback...

My opinion, which means absolutely nothing is he'd be a lock for a 4 year AROTC scholarship and even though the Navy and AF are more selective, he should be fine there as well. You didn't mention "community service" but I assume if nothing else, that's all rolled into the Eagle Scout accomplishment. With AROTC, I believe you have to choose at least (1) in-state public college on your application but that shouldn't be an issue for your son. The potential issue is getting chosen for a scholarship but then not getting into any of the schools on his list so I suggest a "safety" school which maybe Georgia Tech is? I have no idea how selective they are.

I can tell you that my daughter had a Hispanic female classmate that took all Honors classes, had a 4.0 unweighted GPA (4.5 weighted), Varsity field hockey Captain, yada, yada, yada that was accepted to EVERY academy but was denied at USC, UCLA and MIT (where she really wanted to do NROTC). So there's no telling who gets in where...she ended up going to the Naval Academy and doing the Marine Option.

Good luck with the Ivy Leagues and MIT.. the GPA is extremely low for an UW (remember you're competing with 4.0 2400s, AIME, etc) but I will say that he has a strong chance for an AFROTC scholarship ( although I can't guarantee but I'll say he competitive at least with this year's board.) GT is also pretty selective. Good luck

k2Rider/Phyzix, thanks for the feedback. I think you are absolutely correct regarding the admissions standards of the schools on his list. The only thing that might sway that in his direction is being recruited by the coach. We are meeting with each of the coaches at each school over the next week so that should become clearer after that. I'd say if he was not going to be recruited then his chances of getting in would be slim (or worse), at which point he would be turning his attention to schools like Georgia Tech, USC, and the Naval and AF academies. He is also applying for the AROTC, but I think his preference is Navy or AF based on his sister being at the Naval Academy and a cousin who commissioned in the AF via ROTC. His community service is not as strong as it could be and is pretty much isolated to what he has done through Scouting and National Honor Society. I also don't think he will ace the fitness assessment (his sport isn't really aerobic and running hasn't been his thing...but we are working on it over the summer).

ProudSwimDad said:

k2Rider/Phyzix, thanks for the feedback. I think you are absolutely correct regarding the admissions standards of the schools on his list. The only thing that might sway that in his direction is being recruited by the coach. We are meeting with each of the coaches at each school over the next week so that should become clearer after that. I'd say if he was not going to be recruited then his chances of getting in would be slim (or worse), at which point he would be turning his attention to schools like Georgia Tech, USC, and the Naval and AF academies. He is also applying for the AROTC, but I think his preference is Navy or AF based on his sister being at the Naval Academy and a cousin who commissioned in the AF via ROTC. His community service is not as strong as it could be and is pretty much isolated to what he has done through Scouting and National Honor Society. I also don't think he will ace the fitness assessment (his sport isn't really aerobic and running hasn't been his thing...but we are working on it over the summer).

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ProudSwimDad said:

DS is applying for both NROTC and AFROTC, and is looking at some pretty elite schools (Ivy League, MIT) where he would also participate in varsity sports and a couple of other schools where he would do ROTC and not compete in athletics (USC & Georgia Tech). Here is a bit on his background:

SAT: 800 Math; 740 Reading
GBA: 3.88 unweighted (75% of his credits were from AP and honors classes)
High School Sports: 5 year letter winner in diving, will be swim/dive team captain his senior year. Placed 10th and 6th in state the last two years.
Club Sports: 8 year participant in Trampoline and Tumbling; won national championships in 2012 and 2013.
Boy Scouts: Achieved rank of Eagle Scout; was Assistant Senior Patrol leader for 12 months and Senior Patrol Leader for 6 months of troop with 50-plus scouts.
National Honor Society
Debate Team Membe
He is interested in a technical track (Engineering or Computer Science).

He also has a sister at the Naval Academy and will likely be applying there as well, though given the choice I think he would choose an ROTC scholarship at MIT over the Academy.

My first question is how competitive does he look for a 4-year scholarship to one of these elite schools? Second question, he does not have any local public schools he is interested in. Will he need to include one in his list of school choices? Third, can anyone speak to combining ROTC participation along with Varsity athletics participation? Can the time commitment be balanced so you are not hurting how you are viewed within the ROTC program? Final question for now is related to commissioning and service selection. I believe a substantial portion of your ranking which helps determine if you get the service selection you want is your college GPA. Do they factor in the college you went to or just blindly use the GPA you achieved when determining service selections?

Thanks for the feedback...

Click to expand...

ProudSwimDad said:

DS is applying for both NROTC and AFROTC, and is looking at some pretty elite schools (Ivy League, MIT) where he would also participate in varsity sports and a couple of other schools where he would do ROTC and not compete in athletics (USC & Georgia Tech). Here is a bit on his background:

SAT: 800 Math; 740 Reading
GBA: 3.88 unweighted (75% of his credits were from AP and honors classes)
High School Sports: 5 year letter winner in diving, will be swim/dive team captain his senior year. Placed 10th and 6th in state the last two years.
Club Sports: 8 year participant in Trampoline and Tumbling; won national championships in 2012 and 2013.
Boy Scouts: Achieved rank of Eagle Scout; was Assistant Senior Patrol leader for 12 months and Senior Patrol Leader for 6 months of troop with 50-plus scouts.
National Honor Society
Debate Team Member (3-years)

He is interested in a technical track (Engineering or Computer Science).

He also has a sister at the Naval Academy and will likely be applying there as well, though given the choice I think he would choose an ROTC scholarship at MIT over the Academy.

My first question is how competitive does he look for a 4-year scholarship to one of these elite schools? Second question, he does not have any local public schools he is interested in. Will he need to include one in his list of school choices? Third, can anyone speak to combining ROTC participation along with Varsity athletics participation? Can the time commitment be balanced so you are not hurting how you are viewed within the ROTC program? Final question for now is related to commissioning and service selection. I believe a substantial portion of your ranking which helps determine if you get the service selection you want is your college GPA. Do they factor in the college you went to or just blindly use the GPA you achieved when determining service selections?

Thanks for the feedback...

Click to expand...

I would certainly apply and see what happens. What a great deal to have navy pay for MIT. As far as doing a varsity sport and nrotc, and be an engineering major- wow- that's some work. My DS applied to MIT with 800/640 4.0 GPA from a top prep school and state ranked runner and did not get in but did get an LOA to the naval academy but he declined. He did nrotc at a top public and is now in nuclear training. The Nucs love the kids from MIT and other top schools and sometimes draft into their program as my son was. He enjoys it and is working harder now than in college.

One thing to realize for AFROTC is that they do not superscore the SAT or ACT. It is best sitting. He does look strong for the scholarship.

The other thing to know about the AFROTC scholarship is that it is a 2+2 scholarship. It is guaranteed for the 1st 2 years. If the cadet is not selected for Summer Field Training, HQ AFROTC has the right to disenroll the cadet.

Just saying that if you need the scholarship to be able to attend the school due to fiscal reasons, than you may want to rethink the school.

+1
He should get an NROTC and the only question is which type of AFROTC. You've done a good job!
Check your pm's.
Oldsalt

My biggest piece of advice would be to visit the units at these colleges. Just like college, every unit has its own feel. It can be the absolute worst thing come next winter.

AFROTC scholarship is tied to the cadet, not the school. NROTC is tied to both. Let's assume they get admitted to MIT, but NROTC gave scholarships to other schools on their list, and not MIT.

Do you wait it out until sometime in May with the hopes of transferring the scholarship? Do you accept another schools offer of matriculation? Do you take AFROTC as plan B, while hoping for the transfer for NROTC, but if it does not happen, still go to MIT, but now as an AFROTC cadet?

Believe it or not those scenarios occur every year.

That also does not include the I like the campus of this school better, but the ROTC unit at the other school more.

It can be wonderful to have all of these options, but it can also be very stressful when you are torn in so many different directions. Visiting every unit and every college can reduce the stress.
~ Call the unit prior to the campus visit. Ask if they can hook him up with some cadets/mids in the unit. Do not go to this with him. Set a time to meet on campus. Go get a coffee while you wait.
~~ This also allows him to walk the campus by his own. He can use the time to imagine next year when he will be there by himself. It will have a different feel than the walk in a tour group.

Best of luck.

I am sure you did the tours with your older child, I posted that in case you didn't and for other posters that may have their 1st starting the process.

Proudswimdad, sounds like a great kid. His test scores are awesome. My room mate at USNA had those scores and was around 50/50 on acceptance to the Ivies and schools like MIT. I was a recruited athlete at USNA and the Ivies. It sounds like your DS is a legit recruit. I agree, if your DS is indeed a recruit and falls high enough on their list, his acceptance should happen as it will be a factor. To be honest if he gets into the schools, more than likely, he should get a scholarship. Not in all cases, but it is usually the NROTC scholarship is awarded, but the student doesn't get in and then tries to transfer it. Not sure if your DD at USNA was recruited or not, if this is your first rodeo with an athlete in involved, things are different. A couple things in case this is your first time doing recruiting thing or for others considering this path...

Coaches - You need to get to know the coaches and really figure out what they are saying. How long have they been there? What is left on their contract? Has the program had a high turnover rate of athletes and coaches? Are there are other ROTC cadets/mids on the team? How is it balanced? What does the coach think? That will help tell you if the coach has established himself at the university and if they plan to be there and if athletes want to stay or not. Remember coaches come and go. If a coach goes, is this a school your DS would want to stay at? This is why getting to know the program is so critical and the character of the program, swimmers, etc will be what carries over. I always recommend with coaches in the recruiting game... "Trust but verify all info." The Ivies are slightly different as you aren't dealing with scholarships, so the good thing about that is if he decides to quit swimming, its not tied to his tuition.

ROTC - I didn't go this route, but I have a bunch of buddies that did and also some that were MOIs and NROTC instructors. This is a delicate balance for any student, but even more so for a student-athlete. Also, remember the MOI or instructor will change at least once if not twice while your DS is there. This can be a good or bad thing, but it is like getting a new coach. They each run things slightly different. One instructor might be very supportive of athletes, what happens if the next one doesn't? All things to think about and discuss during this process, ask questions. My recommendation when visiting these schools is to see if your DS could meet and discuss with a current Midshipmen who is an athlete and ask how it balances, how supportive they are, etc.
All in all your DS will have to ask alot of questions and really decide what his priority is, what feels right, and also where he is accepted. Adding in the athletic part adds in complication if your DS really wants to swim at the D1 level. The one great part of the SAs from a student-athlete perspective, is the negotiation between Midshipmen and athlete is really a part of the deal for everyone involved, coaches and athlete. They know this is a part of their daily life as opposed to another school where its a rarity. Good luck in this process and please let me know if you have any additional questions, more than happy to answer.