Recommended for Disenrollment

So recently I have been recommended for disenrollment on the allegation of an inappropriate relationship with an MS1 cadet. Currently I am an MS3. I won't go into too much detail as it is embarrassing, but I will say what the reasoning for this allegation is. A few months ago I gave this cadet a car ride home to see an ill family member, we talked about our past (i.e, sexual history), I dropped her off and that weekend we texted. We didn't say anything explicit to each other (like wanting to do anything, planning, etc), just talked like normal 20-something year old college kids who are friends. We stopped texting after that weekend, unless it was ROTC related and sometimes she would ask for help, just like it was before I gave her the car ride. A few weeks after this, she reported me for sexual harassment (despite nothing happening). After talking to our SHARP representative (and a few other people), I was told that no sexual harassment took place. But a few days after this news I received a counseling statement saying how I have been recommended for disenrollment for violating AR 145-1, section IV, 3-43 (12). IT states "Misconduct, demonstrated by disorderly or disrespectful conduct in the ROTC classroom or during training, or other misconduct that substantially interfered with the ROTC mission, including participation in unlawful demonstration against the ROTC, illegal interference with the rights of other ROTC students, or similar acts." When I asked my ROTC Cadre about what exactly the misconduct was, they said it was my involvement in an inappropriate relationship with a subordinate (despite her not being in my platoon for Army ROTC).

I believe that my actions weren't so severe that disenrollment is an appropriate remedy. As I was told, just being alone in a car that an extended period of time as well as our conversation in the car (which was mutual) and texting her is what was found to be under an inappropriate relationship. I could request a hearing with 1 or more officers to present my case, handle evidence, new evidence if any and hear my reasoning for any questions they have and that then they will make a decision.

As you could imagine, I'm sort of freaking out and need some help/guidance.

BigCityNight, this is obviously a very serious situation, and the ramifications, depending upon the ultimate resolution, could have a monumental impact on your future, both within the military and beyond. That said, I do not believe that anyone on this forum, not being fully apprised of all the facts and circumstances, can provide you with meaningful advice on how you should proceed. I would go no further that to recommend that you seek immediate, competent legal advice with regard to the options available to you. I am not sure if you are entitled, as a contracted cadet, to avail yourself of the services of the closet JAG office, but I would certainly explore that option. Finally, I would offer the friendly advice that you should be very cautious about posting any further information about the incident in a public forum such as this. If what you say is true, then I wish you good luck.

Agree with Leapyear on legal advice:

• It does sounds requesting a hearing is the only option you have.
• If you don't have access to the JAG, find an attorney specifically familiar with ROTC disenrollment proceedings.
• Do NOT approach or speak with (directly or indirectly) the MS-I that was involved in this. It is likely to only make things worse.

All upper class cadets and mids should take a lesson from this. Anyone who is senior to a subordinate should avoid discussion of "those" topics.
Also, you should not put yourself alone with a subordinate individual for an extended period of time where it becomes a word vs word situation.

Military installations have a Legal Services Office. If you are near one, you can ask to see a JAG who handles defense cases, or could possibly speak to one on the phone. This will be free and confidential. The purpose would be to understand your rights and how best to proceed.

These types of hearings and procedures are administrative in nature, and thus don't have to rely on the rules of evidence that apply in criminal court cases. He said (assuming you are male)/she said cases are particularly difficult. The chain of command has a duty to act on any credible complaint.

You can also google variations on "lawyers who handle cadet and midshipman misconduct cases matters hearings." You may be able to get a free consultation.

Yours is an object lesson in what conversations not to have in the professional setting. Assume ANY setting is professional. Discussing past sexual history with someone junior to you in a car, alone, with no options to walk away - well, not the best choice of topic for passing the time. She may have been supremely uncomfortable but felt unable to communicate that to someone senior in that setting.

Ditto all advice above.

Here is a "dot mil" link to United States Military Legal Services. I hope it may be helpful:
http://legalassistance.law.af.mil/content/locator.php

Thank you everyone for your advice. It is greatly appreciated and helpful.

gokings, I tried using the link but it is proving very difficult to access it. I've used different internet servers and different devices. I'll keep poking at it though, thank you!

BigCityNight said:

Thank you everyone for your advice. It is greatly appreciated and helpful.

gokings, I tried using the link but it is proving very difficult to access it. I've used different internet servers and different devices. I'll keep poking at it though, thank you!

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@BigCityNight
I tried the link earlier and it worked....but now it doesn't! Try again later. In the meantime here are a couple more links:
Cadet Command Directory: There is a JAG phone number here too under "staff agencies":
http://www.cadetcommand.army.mil/contact-us.aspx

Army Legal Assistance:
http://army.com/info/legal-assistance/sja/eligibility
and:
http://army.com/info/legal-assistance

Disenrollment attorneys:
If the JAG doesn't work for you, consider exploring one of these private disenrollment lawyers: (or google one in your geographical area).

http://www.calcagnilaw.com/military-defense/rotc-disenrollment-hearings-defense-attorney
http://www.militarydefense.com/Practice-Areas/ROTC-Disenrollment.shtml
http://www.tullylegal.com/washingto...tary-law/rotc-military-academy-disenrollment/
http://www.domeklaw.com/disenrollment-hearings-and-recoupment-actions.html

Disclaimer: I am not an attorney, and I have no first hand experience with any of the above listed counsel.

gokings814 said:

@BigCityNight
I tried the link earlier and it worked....but now it doesn't! Try again later. In the meantime here are a couple more links:
Cadet Command Directory: There is a JAG phone number here too under "staff agencies":
http://www.cadetcommand.army.mil/contact-us.aspx

Army Legal Assistance:
http://army.com/info/legal-assistance/sja/eligibility
and:
http://army.com/info/legal-assistance

Disenrollment attorneys:
If the JAG doesn't work for you, consider exploring one of these private disenrollment lawyers: (or google one in your geographical area).

http://www.calcagnilaw.com/military-defense/rotc-disenrollment-hearings-defense-attorney
http://www.militarydefense.com/Practice-Areas/ROTC-Disenrollment.shtml
http://www.tullylegal.com/washingto...tary-law/rotc-military-academy-disenrollment/
http://www.domeklaw.com/disenrollment-hearings-and-recoupment-actions.html

Disclaimer: I am not an attorney, and I have no first hand experience with any of the above listed counsel.

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Thank you very much, both for the links and the advice I was given (everyone's advice was helpful).

Obviously much time has passed since this and I would like to update on this as well as ask a few questions that I feel like this site can give me whereas normal googling options have ultimately come up short.

So, long story short, since I have posted this I had requested a board (as well as completely proven my innocence from the initial allegation). The President of the Board concluded that I did not actually violate any U.S. Army policy and that there was no undesirable character trait demonstrated and he recommended that I be retained. However, the acting PMS disapproved and said that I was too at ease, and could do something unbecoming in the future, so he recommended my immediate disenrollment. His statement didn't really give a lot of information. Due to some financial reasons, as well as this being an ultimate distraction from my grades causing them to get lower and lower, I also felt no support from my cadre (aside from the President of the Board), so I decided to withdraw. I was nonscholarship contracted, so I know that the PMS could disenroll me without sending it up to Cadet Command, but he did send it up and I'm a little confused as to why he did that after I withdrew. I called to ask but was not given an answer, I also asked how long would this take and I was told to not expect anything until around late-May. Aside from all of this, when they initially gave me my packet of recommendation for disenrollment, I was told everything was in this packet will be used in the board, but during the board they suddenly added a lot of other things I had never seen before and questioned me heavily on it. A lawyer I had spoken to said this was a violation of my Due Processing rights.

I was reading a thread that was posted about four or so years ago and said that ROTC needs Cadet Commands approval for certain actions on the DD785 that basically recommend a cadet to be either average, recommend to pursue a commissioning route again or to highly not recommend. Is this the reason they sent it up to Cadet Command?

Some other questions I would like to add to this are...

1) Do disenrolled AROTC cadets get a DD214? I keep getting mixed answers on this.
2) Do I need to wait on actually receiving the DD785 to enlist?
3) Is there anything that actually prevents me from enlisting because of this?

Finally, I'm sorry if this seems like a mess to read. I just think that the reaction and punishment is a bit extreme for what actually happened, especially even after the board president's recommendation and findings. There are cadets in that battalion that have been suspended for Hazing/Toleration of Hazing and another for assault, yet they are still there, contracted (yes the ROTC knows about those). I've posted all this here because I trust this site and I trust the opinions and knowledge that is to be found here.

Thanks!

BigCityNight said:

Thank you very much, both for the links and the advice I was given (everyone's advice was helpful).

Obviously much time has passed since this and I would like to update on this as well as ask a few questions that I feel like this site can give me whereas normal googling options have ultimately come up short.

So, long story short, since I have posted this I had requested a board (as well as completely proven my innocence from the initial allegation). The President of the Board concluded that I did not actually violate any U.S. Army policy and that there was no undesirable character trait demonstrated and he recommended that I be retained. However, the acting PMS disapproved and said that I was too at ease, and could do something unbecoming in the future, so he recommended my immediate disenrollment. His statement didn't really give a lot of information. Due to some financial reasons, as well as this being an ultimate distraction from my grades causing them to get lower and lower, I also felt no support from my cadre (aside from the President of the Board), so I decided to withdraw. I was nonscholarship contracted, so I know that the PMS could disenroll me without sending it up to Cadet Command, but he did send it up and I'm a little confused as to why he did that after I withdrew. I called to ask but was not given an answer, I also asked how long would this take and I was told to not expect anything until around late-May. Aside from all of this, when they initially gave me my packet of recommendation for disenrollment, I was told everything was in this packet will be used in the board, but during the board they suddenly added a lot of other things I had never seen before and questioned me heavily on it. A lawyer I had spoken to said this was a violation of my Due Processing rights.

I was reading a thread that was posted about four or so years ago and said that ROTC needs Cadet Commands approval for certain actions on the DD785 that basically recommend a cadet to be either average, recommend to pursue a commissioning route again or to highly not recommend. Is this the reason they sent it up to Cadet Command?

Some other questions I would like to add to this are...

1) Do disenrolled AROTC cadets get a DD214? I keep getting mixed answers on this.
2) Do I need to wait on actually receiving the DD785 to enlist?
3) Is there anything that actually prevents me from enlisting because of this?

Finally, I'm sorry if this seems like a mess to read. I just think that the reaction and punishment is a bit extreme for what actually happened, especially even after the board president's recommendation and findings. There are cadets in that battalion that have been suspended for Hazing/Toleration of Hazing and another for assault, yet they are still there, contracted (yes the ROTC knows about those). I've posted all this here because I trust this site and I trust the opinions and knowledge that is to be found here.

Thanks!

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Just for clarification and curiosity...Does AROTC handle it like AFROTC in when you are investigated for disenrollment an outside cadre member comes to investigate you?

You do not get a DD214
You must wait until you are disenrolled before you can enlist...that's right in your contract.
Your recruiter is probably going to need you 785 as part of your enlistment paperwork.

Sled said:

Just for clarification and curiosity...Does AROTC handle it like AFROTC in when you are investigated for disenrollment an outside cadre member comes to investigate you?

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I don't believe so. When DS's friend was disenrolled from AROTC all of the people involved were from his cadre.

sheriff3 said:

I don't believe so. When DS's friend was disenrolled from AROTC all of the people involved were from his cadre.

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Cadre's opinions will hold a lot of weight but from what I hear AFROTC likes to have an unbiased opinion. This summer the OFC from our det had to travel about 3 hrs and do a disenrollment investigation. I'm just saying this because it sounds like the PMS sent it up for someone else to evaluate then ended up making the final decision anyways.