Body Fat taping??

Hello fellow forum members, when they said this quest for an appointment was a roller coaster ride they weren't joking! My DD (mom too)have been very high; received an LOA, 3Qd on her portal, just worried about noms and bubble wrapping; and now feeling like we're in a free fall! Yesterday she received an email in regards to her height to weight ratio asking for a tape test to check body fat. She performed the test on herself and it looks like she doesn't pass she's just over. This just doesn't seem possible, she's solid muscle! No joke, she has a VERY fit muscular build. The method they use measures your waist, hips, and neck. Seems ridiculous. She is quite straight waisted without any curves. This is her build, not fat. So I called her Dr.'s office to schedule the official test measurements and they refused because it is such a highly inaccurate method that they won't do it. Looks like we have to go to a recruiter for the test. I'm just sick over this for her. Does anyone have any input on this? What can she do? Does this mean she won't get appointment? She did awesome on the CFA and is a multi sport athlete.

CA_hopefulmom said:

Hello fellow forum members, when they said this quest for an appointment was a roller coaster ride they weren't joking! My DD (mom too)have been very high; received an LOA, 3Qd on her portal, just worried about noms and bubble wrapping; and now feeling like we're in a free fall! Yesterday she received an email in regards to her height to weight ratio asking for a tape test to check body fat. She performed the test on herself and it looks like she doesn't pass she's just over. This just doesn't seem possible, she's solid muscle! No joke, she has a VERY fit muscular build. The method they use measures your waist, hips, and neck. Seems ridiculous. She is quite straight waisted without any curves. This is her build, not fat. So I called her Dr.'s office to schedule the official test measurements and they refused because it is such a highly inaccurate method that they won't do it. Looks like we have to go to a recruiter for the test. I'm just sick over this for her. Does anyone have any input on this? What can she do? Does this mean she won't get appointment? She did awesome on the CFA and is a multi sport athlete.

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Take a breath, be in the present and don't let your mind go leaping forward to the bad place.

For the taping method, men with slender necks compared to other body measurements, and women who don't have significant delta between waist and hips, do not do well on these things. I came in with a waiver to OCS (same standards) back in the 20th C, just a few pounds over. Same deal, very fit, just my body style when I was at playing weight. Hint: suck in gut hard and stand tall, lift rib age, draw the body and head up and erect to elongate the torso. Not exaggeratedly so.

Take it a step at a time. As long as she is not grossly over the weight, it should be fine, IMO. Many of the D1 athletes come in at playing weight, both male and female. The SAs can put two and two together when they look at sports, CFA and physical stats.

The methodology: http://www.wood.army.mil/sapper/document_frames/ar600_9.pdf

Did you get any official correspondence confirming you are 3Q? I have an LOA, passed CFA and DoDMERB yet still nothing that confirms I'm 3Q.

Thank you Capt MJ and USMCGrunt. I appreciate the words Capt MJ and will share them with DD. Honestly I'm just shocked that this would be an issue for her.

924 said:

Did you get any official correspondence confirming you are 3Q? I have an LOA, passed CFA and DoDMERB yet still nothing that confirms I'm 3Q.

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No nothing official, sorry didn't mean to be misleading, her portal says Qualified under DODMERB, she did well on the CFA, and I know she must be academically qualified(LOA). All green check marks on her portal.

Take it very seriously. A few years back two dozen Firsties with less than a month before their graduation were seperated. WP uses the tape test regardless of what your private MD may say. Remember an LOA is conditional


Push Hard, Press Forward

CA_hopefulmom said:

Thank you Capt MJ and USMCGrunt. I appreciate the words Capt MJ and will share them with DD. Honestly I'm just shocked that this would be an issue for her.

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One of our USNA sponsor sons was a Brazilian martial arts expert, participated in the USNA martial arts ECA and was learning UFC techniques. Hardly an ounce of body fat on him, rock-hard thick core and he took care not to over-develop his neck. He went Marine, yet his relatively slender neck and muscled body weight always had him within a pound of Marine limit for his height. The uniforms looked superb on him. Ditto one of my Marine officers, who had been a USNA wrestler - body style was solid barrel, not the typical pronounced V-shape for a male.

The SAs have been at this a long time. Your DD is in good shape for this early in the roller-coaster ride. This should be just a bump. The tape method is not universally friendly to certain body types, but it's low-tech and convenient, even if inaccurate compared to other methods.

Gotcha, that would be AWFUL! I can't imagine how they felt!

We are definitely taking this seriously. We have two weeks or so until it needs to be turned in. In the meantime DD has started a near starvation diet, my husband and I are joining in solidarity. Not really starvation, but pretty low calorie. She just doesn't have much fat to lose, she's going to lose muscle, but hopefully she'll lose a couple inches.

Couple of things on this... Capt MJ as usual is spot on. Get through the measurements and let the cards fall where they might. See the recruiter and see where she falls. If she is outside the limits, I would give it awhile then go back. Not sure if you have a due date.

Second thing... The military uses antiquated processes for body fat measurements. Why? Because measurement with a tape is the easiest, cheapest way to train the entire Army and execute it in each unit. It is a horrible method and has more to do for many on your build than actual body fat %, health or fitness. This is more for your DD than anything... If she is close to the limit she needs to be conginizant of this throughout her career. I have seen fit people separated because of this stupid process, but rules are rules. Officers set the example. I am not trying to frighten her, but for those who happen to have this build they will deal with this their entire careers. For Cadets and Mids at a SA their diets change, their metabolism changes as they move from 18 to 20s, and their workout routines change. It is just something to be aware of. I watched a national level Cross Fit comp on TV with a buddy who is still active duty a few months ago... Not a single one was in the USMC female height and weight standards and probably only half would pass taping. Some of the most fit people on the planet and they can't pass a standard that is measured by the worst method possible! But officers are the standard and must adhere to them. The services are starting go back to the drawing board and look at these standards and they do change throughout their career.

tug_boat said:

Take it very seriously. A few years back two dozen Firsties with less than a month before their graduation were seperated. WP uses the tape test regardless of what your private MD may say. Remember an LOA is conditional


Push Hard, Press Forward

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This is a good point. There are waivers for certain standards coming into the service, because it's expected they will soon be within standards. Once in, for those who have the tape-unfriendly body styles, they will have to be vigilant about staying within the parameters. Every year, there are mids and cadets "out of reg" for body fat or weight, and they are involuntarily separated prior to commissioning.

Edit: There are a lot of YouTube videos out there for taping technique. Here's a sample, with no surety of authenticity.

NavyHoops and CaptMJ yes I think this will be a constant battle for her unless they can come up with a more accurate test. I just did the tape test, an old 40 year old mom that is not in great shape and I passed. Something is definitely wrong with that. My DD is the fittest girl I know, she should pass no problem. We'll keep pushing hard and pressing forward. Thanks again for the insight, it is greatly appreciated!

Let us know how it goes.

I always had to take great care not to over-develop my obliques, enough for a well-supported core, but not too much volume. I also had the tendency to pack on big muscle weight in calves, quads and hamstrings, so I focused on workouts giving me lean muscle mass. My body style was tall, more straight up and down, with narrower hips and not a lot of padding on the bone. I loathed the tape.

Hang on Hang on.....You can't compare Navy to Army methods. As an example, Im doing my best to get the message across........ football. I know I know. Navy allows their Mids to be heavier during their three and half years at the academy. When they are seniors after football is finished for them, the Navy puts them through a very rigorous weight reduction program to meet military height to weight ratios. Army on the other hand requires their Cadets to be lean throughout their 47 month stay. Army lines are much lighter and this make it very difficult for them against heavier lines. (Not making excuses) But that is the reality of it. Army Sprint Football team is undefeated since its inception. At WP you have March Back, AFPT, IOCT Combat Survival swim, the High Dive, physical tests for airborne, as examples that they must complete. Heavier Cadets are notorious for struggling through these obstacle tests. The Army likes lean soldiers.

Push Hard, Press Forward

I'm a male and had to be taped for Air Force. I did it with my school nurse and in the comments section she stated my muscular build. If your doctor can comment on your build or say something like "does not appear overweight at all" I think it will be fine. I got my letter stating that I'm within the standards now for Air Force.

CA_hopefulmom said:

NavyHoops and CaptMJ yes I think this will be a constant battle for her unless they can come up with a more accurate test. I just did the tape test, an old 40 year old mom that is not in great shape and I passed. Something is definitely wrong with that. My DD is the fittest girl I know, she should pass no problem. We'll keep pushing hard and pressing forward. Thanks again for the insight, it is greatly appreciated!

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Kind of a no brainer, but during this "diet" period, tell her to do lots and lots of cardio, but no weights. Also, no carbs for the 2 weeks...that should drop a few pounds pretty quickly.

If your DD ends up in the military, this will be a constant challenge - particularly as she ages. She may want to download the free app: myfitnesspal and log all food. Focus on decreasing carbs substantially (shoot for 120-130 g daily) for quick impact. The tool will help educate her on what dietary intake helps her manage her weight.

Be guided by Tug above, and focus on requirements of your academy and service, its methods and culture.

None of us want to do any parade-raining, and create an unhealthy body image issue. Your DD may have to get really smart on managing her body shape, while remaining fit and healthy, as a long-term military lifestyle.

Hopeful2021 said:

I'm a male and had to be taped for Air Force. I did it with my school nurse and in the comments section she stated my muscular build. If your doctor can comment on your build or say something like "does not appear overweight at all" I think it will be fine. I got my letter stating that I'm within the standards now for Air Force.

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Unfortunately her Dr. Has refused to do it and her school doesn't have a nurse, it's a small private school. She will have to go to a recruiter. Hopefully he/she could state something along those lines for her as well. Glad you are cleared for AFA, what a relief.

We are quite familiar with myfitnesspal, it's a great app. Thanks for all the tips! Day one of starvation is done and in the books, she (we) has about nine days left. I could see how these standards might create body issues and eating disorders and that is sad. Your shape/body type isn't something you can easily change, it's kind of out of your control. Which makes it even more frustrating. Thanks again.