wait list

my son recieved the dreaded Thin White Envelope on Saturday. Very dissapointing after finally recieving a waiver the week before that
I was wondering if there is anyone who can shed any light on the wait list situation, like approximately how many kids end up getting an offer? I am also curious if any candidates get out and out rejected, or is everyone who does not recieve an offer of appointment put on the waitlist. Thanks!

I was put on the wait list too. It is definitely not pleasant. What I did was call the Air Force Academy and asked for details about what my chances were and any other advice. My counselor told me that I would basically have to wait until enough people in my nomination areas decline their offer of admissions to open a slot up for me. My counselor did stress to me however that I could receive an appointment up to one week prior to the start of BCT. So there is definitely still hope, but do realize (something else my counselor told me) that over the past two years, the number of people who have declined offers to all three Academies has been dropping significantly.

So again, keep your hopes up that the good news would eventually come, but continue with the preparations for "Plan B" if things don't work out.



(My Plan B was the AFROTC scholarship that I received, but I ended up with an appointment to West Point and have decided that that is where I will be attending school next year. Good luck!!!!!)

This is a very difficult question. And I know it's frustrating. The truth is; the academy wants between 1300-1400 cadets walking in the door in June. (Of those, approximately 1000 will stick it out 4 years, graduate, and become commissioned officers). Now, the academy (Through experience); knows that quite a few people are going to turn down the appointment. a)Accepted another academy or b)Accepted another college/university because the academy wasn't their 1st choice.

Because of these that turn down the appointment, the academy offers roughly 1700 appointments. When the dust settles, approximately 300-400 will turn it down. This is normal each year. Now, if 1) MORE than the 300-400 turn it down or 2) Individuals turn it down from a nomination category that has others (e.g. your district); then the academy will then go to the wait list.

So it's not really a numbers game. 300-400 will DEFINITELY turn down the appointment. That's normal. But that only gets them down to the number they wanted in the first place. But, you also don't have to wait for 400 people to decline the appointment before you're possibly a hopeful. If the "Right" person declines, you could immediately be offered a slot from the wait list. Not much help or encouragement here. Sorry. But hopefully it sort of explains the process. later... mike....

Christcorp: I want to thank you for your amazing contributions to this board. Here in Denver we feel lucky to claim a waitlist status for my son on USAF and USNA. So we are not waiting around for the appointment, although mildly curious with every phone call and letter. We did receive a 4 year ROTC Army offer and are thrilled to take it the first year and use all your good advice to try and get in next year in the likely event we don't get in this year. I am amazed at this board and the courage all these fine young men and women have in the face of adversity.
NUTS!
GuitarHero

My son is in the same boat and is also blessed to have received the Type 1 AF ROTC scholarship. This is great, but we would still love for his name to come up on that wait list. Do I understand correctly that his chance could only come if the appointee from his nominating source declines the appointment? And then of course he has to be next in line from that source? I would love to understand that better. The term nominating categories is confusing.

No, the declined appointee doesn't have to come from his nomination source. Once the original set of appointments are made, those on the wait list are sort of on a ranked list. Highest to lowest. Slots can become available for many reasons. Depending on where your son/daughter is on the wait list will determine when they would be offered a slot. Your nominator's list is just one source. I know steve can probably be more clear on this point. But it gets a little complicated for which slot is opened up when someone turns down an appointment. But the most important thing is where you are ranked on the wait list. Unfortunately, that is not something that you are going to know. So, it's more of a wait and see approach. later... mike....

Prayin'Mom said:

. . . Do I understand correctly that his chance could only come if the appointee from his nominating source declines the appointment? And then of course he has to be next in line from that source? I would love to understand that better. The term nominating categories is confusing.

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It depends on where the person who declined their appointment was being charged. If a principal nominee declines then the next on the slate is going to get the appointment (if the slate was submitted as a ranked slate). If the slate was not ranked, the next candidate in line based on WCS is charged to the MOC so someone from the same district will get the spot. However, if #2 already has an appointment, it is possible for #2 to slide into the charged slot & no one else from that district gets an appointment, instead the NWL gets an opening. Principal noms are charged right away & the highest WCS on a slate is charged to a MOC that didn't submit a principal (unless that candidate got 2 MOC noms, in which case the SA can select which they will charge based on the balance of each slate, principal always winning out unless someone got principal for 2 MOCs - like their rep & senator).

So people on the NWL can obtain an appointment if their slate has only one appointee & that appointee has declined. In that scenario the next WCS on the slate gets the appointment. If the slate has more than one already accepted, then someone on the NWL may get the appointment instead of someone from the district unless the #2 WCS on the slate does not yet have an appointment (perhaps a lower WCS had an LOA so they already have an appointment).

If the person that declines their appointment was not charged to the MOC (maybe #2 on the slate so they got appointment off the national pool) then the slot will be filled from the NWL.

Finally, it is also very possible that no one will get the slot (not from NWL and not from MOC slate). The reason is because more offers of appointment are made than slots available. The SAs know approx. how many students will decline. If more decline bringing the class size below the desired level then people off the NWL will get an offer & the converse can hold true as well. The only variance to this is that the MOC will be charged a slot so even if the class is too large, the SA will still go to the MOC slate & offer another appointment to someone if that slate does not yet have a candidate to charge to the MOC. The MOC slot will NEVER be charged to a different district, it will ALWAYS be charged to a candidate from the MOC slate.

This is tough to articulate ... bottom line is it can go either way & you have a good reason for being confused! There are so many scenarios I can't even begin to address them all ... and in my effort to articulate it I am probably muddling it up even more!

Okay, had an interesting conversation with USAFA admissions today. I called because I was curious about when "rejected" candidates would receive their TWE from USAFA. Well, other than the fact that my son will not get any communication from USAFA (even though he is a candidate and they went through the trouble of granting him a medical waiver...), the admissions officer told me that the "class is full." He basically said that, of the appointments they have offered, enough have been admitted to "fill the class." If you are on the wait list or still waiting. I would recommend you call USAFA admissions and verify the info. I got today. May 1st is fast approaching and if they don't intend to notify all candidates one way or the other...then it might be worth your while. Good luck to all of you outstanding young men and women.

the admissions officer told me that the "class is full." He basically said that, of the appointments they have offered, enough have been admitted to "fill the class." If you are on the wait list or still waiting. I would recommend you call USAFA admissions and verify the info. I got today. May 1st is fast approaching and if they don't intend to notify all candidates one way or the other...then it might be worth your while. Good luck to all of you outstanding young men and women.[/QUOTE]

Pmlutton, do I understand you to mean that enough kids have already officially accepted their appointments this year so in effect no one on the waitlist will be getting a call?

Dear Triplemmom, That is what the admissions officer told me. That is why I advice all who are on the wait list to call and ask the specific question: is the class really already full, have enough people accepted their appts. that the wait list people no longer have a chance? Please call them. I am just a mom...

According to the news yesterday in the DC area they announced that all of the SA's this yr had at least a 30% increase in apps. (USNA had 50%), this would explain why that at this early time they believe that the waitlist won't be touched. Remember they offer about 1600 appts for 1200 slots, realistically in this economic downturn it would not be surprising if the class of 13 will be the largest if they have few declines.

Bad news on this is in 4 yrs with the pilot pipeline slowing down many cadets might not see UPT, and if they went only to fly, they maybe disappointed. The other problem that incurs with classes that are too large, may result in commissioning yrs being too big and a RIF could come about. I believe that only happened a couple of yrs ago when they targeted 95-01 in 2007.

General Brady said the RIF board would consider Air Force officers with six to 12 years of active commissioned service in overage career fields from six year groups: 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 2000 and 2001. The RIF board process is expected to achieve approximately 1,000 officer reductions. Officers not selected for retention will be separated by Jan. 29, 2008

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What is interesting is that 99 was not touched. I bet 95-98 were bigger because by the time pilots could walk the airlines weren't hiring, thus they stayed, esp. when they could see the pilot bonus and major pay raise in front of them.

My son was in the same position last year; fully qualified, no vacancy. Being the determined young man that he is he attended Baylor University and participated in their AF ROTC program, AND re-applyed to USAFA!!! He recieved his appointment to the Class of 2013 in October! Having a year of college life, academics, and some military knowledge under his belt will, I think, serve him well. If this is the path that you choose, try to get your application and nomination applications done this summer. With that said, everything except DoDMERB needs to be completed again. My son used essencially the same essays and just cleaned them up and made them more current. It wasn't too bad. My heart goes out to all of you, candidates and parents alike. I still can work up a good cry when thinking about last year, but my son made the best of it and is so ready for June 25th this year. Don't forget that you are still an awesome young person just to get as far as you have. Whatever path you choose, I'm certain of your success.

Is this true?

Heard from someone at orientation that every year there are some appointees that won't get off the bus, decide the Academy is not for them but there are waitlisters present and at the ready to take their slots? Is this true?

If what Pima posted is in fact true, I would not get my hopes up because if too many accepted beyond what they expected, I would expect those that "don't want to get off the bus" will be how they will get their numbers down.

is that really true Pima??? How accurate is your source of info? jw....

I saw an article earlier this week in the Washington Post which supports the rise in SA applicants this year.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/15/AR2009041503437.html
While I don't know the basis for the numbers of % increase the Post cites, there clearly was a rise this year.

Lilly said:

Heard from someone at orientation that every year there are some appointees that won't get off the bus, decide the Academy is not for them but there are waitlisters present and at the ready to take their slots? Is this true?

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Can't speak for USAFA but it's not done at USNA. They tried a version of this at USNA a few years ago. Added 9 new plebes about a week later to fill the spots of those who quit on day 1 -- or didn't show. However, at USNA, it didn't work out well and hasn't been done since.

Note that is an increase in Applicants not offers of appointment extended. It does not mention how many offers they put out and the % of acceptance. Not sure if increase in Applicants translates to a higher percentage than normal of acceptance of offers extended?

I'm not sure if the actual numbers will be available for acceptance yet. But it's possible that more than enough had accepted.

The class of 2012 is the LARGEST class to date entering the air force academy. (At least I'm about 99.999% sure. That's what was told to me a couple months ago by the commandant.). I will be off by a couple, but on "I" day, there was right around 1385 entering BCT. History shows that there's normally 85-100 that will drop out; get injured/sick; or simply can't make it through BCT. This past year (Class of 2012); only approximately 45 didn't make it through BCT. This year's class poises to be a larger class yet.

These AREN'T FOR THIS YEAR; but if you'd like to see some stats of the typical class, here are numbers for 2007. http://www.citytowninfo.com/school-profiles/united-states-air-force-academy

Later... mike.....

No letter yet - April 18

My son has not received any letter yet. The last communication was in January about sending new ACT scores. My son has sent AFA a letter that he is still interested - but there has been no response. Is it possible to get accepted at this late date? When is the the last day to receive a letter? After all the trouble doing the application, shouldn't they at least send a reject letter - or something?