need advice NOW (going to jail?)

Now... i dont know if you are familiar with the term "hazing", but there was a lot of it. A LOT. Countless bottles and cases of beer they forced us to drink in a certain amount of time and several times they would call us out to the house at 2 - 3 AM, strip us of our clothes, and force us to do calisthenics while electric shocking us in various parts of our bodies. the night before my PFA, as they knew I was in ROTC and had a big test tomorrow, they made us wear this weird padding then bear crawl on broken glass, causing cuts on my torso. They would line us up and shoot us at point blank range with paintball guns while we yelled the fraternities creed, vision, and colors in the name of brotherhood. one time they even dragged me out of my bed, blindfolded me, and threw me in the back of a truck, put a bulletproof vest on me and "shot" me with a pistol.. i later learned that it was just the sounds of a firecracker but I was screaming and crying so hard I could not tell honestly what had happened.

SO... during our final week (hell week), they subjected us to even MORE things that I would not like to say, but I ended up in a park at 4 AM near campus, and they had us smoking weed at that time. and a police officer was conveniently doing a check up/patrol on the area. They noticed the smell of weed and had us written up as we were all underage. I havent appeared in court yet to argue my case, I dont know if I am going to jail or not... to be honest I am just so scared (i havent told my parents about this or anything) but I was wondering what this meant for my career in the military.

What the Hell kind of Fraternity is this that you're pledging. It's hard to imagine that the type of Hazing you're describing has occurred under the radar of the university, this is the type of thing that ends up on CNN. If what you said actually happened some of these members could face charges.

I can't for the life of me think of one reason anyone would have stayed with this Fraternity after just one of the things you described happened. In a previous post you stated you were going to UT Austin, is this something that happens in Fraternities at UT, other then the one you pledged, if so then something needs to be done. What you described sounds like something out of a bad 80's movie.

As far as being forced to smoke weed because they would whip you with a belt if you didn't, that's just plain crap. Getting up, walking away, and telling them to go to Hell would have been the option I would hope any "Good Kid" would have chose.

This type of hazing only continues because people put up with it. We all make mistakes, and you made many. Now you have to find a way to move on, the military will most likely not be a path open to you anymore. I hope to God you have cut ties with this Fraternity.

Now with all that said, the skeptic in me would normally brush off a post like this as trolling for comments because it is almost too far over the top, and made by someone that has only posted 3 times. but I'll give it the benefit of the doubt and just shake my head that something like this still goes on at some Fraternities, and there are those that put up with it.
 
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As someone who is in a fraternity as well as AFROTC, you should have dropped the moment they started doing stuff like electric shocks. In today's world, Greek like is under a microscope and anything like that will eventually come out in the future and get that organization kicked off campus and you'll be involved in the investigation. As for them threatening to beat you (which is illegal and unacceptable) if you didn't smoke, assuming you told them you are in AFFROTC and can get drug tested and lose your scholarship, you absolutely should have left. They are forcing you to choose the fraternity over ROTC and in choosing to stay, you accepted the choice they made for you. We have several cadets in my det in Greek life (myself included), and all their organizations completely understand that ROTC takes priority and don't force any cadet pledges to do anything of that nature. It all boils down to the fact that they need you more than you need them, and you shouldn't give your time or money to a group that treats you that way. Unfortunately, you will need to inform your cadre now, otherwise, they will find out your AS300 year when they do your security clearance and then you will have to pay back three years of scholarship money plus the consequence of lying to a federal investigator. You're not going to go to jail for a first offense of smoking weed, but your future in the program is not looking good to put it gently. I'm sorry you had to learn this difficult lesson about standing up for what you believe in this way.
thank you for posting this - i will look into my options
 
At this point I think that the thread is gravitating from providing insightful help to just taking stabs at my poor decision making skills. I thank everyone who has posted helpful advice but am now asking this thread be locked and deleted.

I don't want this thread following me all the way to california where people who I know might see it. I ask you respect my privacy and delete this thread.
 
At this point I think that the thread is gravitating from providing insightful help to just taking stabs at my poor decision making skills. I thank everyone who has posted helpful advice but am now asking this thread be locked and deleted.

I don't want this thread following me all the way to california where people who I know might see it. I ask you respect my privacy and delete this thread.
Really. You post your legal woes in detail on a public forum to ask the opinion of complete strangers and now you ask for your privacy to be respected?
 
At this point I think that the thread is gravitating from providing insightful help to just taking stabs at my poor decision making skills. I thank everyone who has posted helpful advice but am now asking this thread be locked and deleted.

I don't want this thread following me all the way to california where people who I know might see it. I ask you respect my privacy and delete this thread.

When you post something that is filled with poor decisions from the first sentence you have to accept that part of the reaction will be toward your decision making, most here have given you good advice, if your looking for a "You poor poor thing, everything will be OK" response then you came to the wrong place. If you want insightful help then engage in the conversation, have you left the Frat or are you still a Pledge, have you talked with your Cadre, what did they say. Do you need help finding an attorney and have your parents given you advice. You can't just dump this on a bunch of strangers and expect any further advice without being part of the conversation and list the things you're now doing to correct the situation. People will take stabs at your decision making until they hear that you have changed some of those decisions.

As far as deleting this thread, I should hope not, this is a great thread for new students and cadets to read, if nothing else as a warning of just how wrong things can go.

One other thing, if you don't want something following you out to California, don't say you're in California.
 
What the Hell kind of Fraternity is this that you're pledging. It's hard to imagine that the type of Hazing you're describing has occurred under the radar of the university, this is the type of thing that ends up on CNN. If what you said actually happened some of these members could face charges.

I can't for the life of me think of one reason anyone would have stayed with this Fraternity after just one of the things you described happened. In a previous post you stated you were going to UT Austin, is this something that happens in Fraternities at UT, other then the one you pledged, if so then something needs to be done. What you described sounds like something out of a bad 80's movie.

As far as being forced to smoke weed because they would whip you with a belt if you didn't, that's just plain crap. Getting up, walking away, and telling them to go to Hell would have been the option I would hope any "Good Kid" would have chose.

This type of hazing only continues because people put up with it. We all make mistakes, and you made many. Now you have to find a way to move on, the military will most likely not be a path open to you anymore. I hope to God you have cut ties with this Fraternity.

Now with all that said, the skeptic in me would normally brush off a post like this as trolling for comments because it is almost too far over the top, and made by someone that has only posted 3 times. but I'll give it the benefit of the doubt and just shake my head that something like this still goes on at some Fraternities, and there are those that put up with it.

as an AFROTC cadet who DOES go to UT, I assure you there is no hazing on this level anywhere in the state as I have friends who pledge fraternities here at UT. Can't speak for Cali schools though.

But man am I sorry to hear that dude! Hope everything works out and just take ownership for your actions. I too got my scholarship suspended recently for getting 2 academic CE's, but I will be working extra hard now. I still think this thread should stay up as it shows so many mistakes made that could be avoided.

Once again, take ownership and just accept that whatever needs to happen will happen and there is nothing you can do about it at this point
 
I hope this thread won't be deleted. I'm looking forward to reading this to my DD when she gets home from school today.
This is exactly the type of fear mongering I am trying to avoid. Sorry for sounding agitated but you all are trying to nail me to the cross for everyone waking by to see. What happened to me is not normal, and it was my fault. I know that. I do not want more people to know about it as I have already received the help I needed and now I just want some privacy? Mods please delete and lock this thread.
 
Bender, learning to accept responsibility for one's actions and face the consequences is one of the biggest life lessons in adulthood. We cannot all sugarcoat our responses to your post for they are meant to be informative and/or constructive.
Keeping this thread open may give some insight to help other young people answer any related questions.
 
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This is exactly the type of fear mongering I am trying to avoid. Sorry for sounding agitated but you all are trying to nail me to the cross for everyone waking by to see. What happened to me is not normal, and it was my fault. I know that. I do not want more people to know about it as I have already received the help I needed and now I just want some privacy? Mods please delete and lock this thread.

Nobody here has nailed you to a cross, if anything they've shown a lot of restraint. You were very open with your situation which can be very helpful to others about to start the same journey, I hope many soon to be cadets and mids read this so they can understand the challenges they may face. It would be great to know what steps you've taken to better your situation, have you left the fraternity for one. You're correct, what happened to you is not normal and you should be commended for realizing that it was your fault and that you're taking responsibility. A lot of the comments, while they seem to be directed toward you, are also meant for new cadets and mids as a way to avoid these situations.

This is a public board, you chose to post your situation, advice has been given and we wish you the best of luck moving forward. It would be naive to say that everything will work out in the short term but there are many paths left open to you if you decide to make different choices. The advice throughout this thread in summary is:

Tell Your Cadre
Hire an attorney
Leave the Fraternity
Talk this over with your parents
Find out how this will effect your status with the university

As far as deleting this thread, I don't see that happening. You have your privacy, nobody knows your name.
 
I hope this thread won't be deleted. I'm looking forward to reading this to my DD when she gets home from school today.
This is exactly the type of fear mongering I am trying to avoid.

Really, Bender? You are calling this fear mongering? This is a parent planning to use an example to show their child what can happen when you don't stand up and do the right thing. Your situation is a pretty extreme example of that.

I have to say that I had the same skeptical feelings that Jcleppe mentioned a few posts ago and not sure I believe all of this to be true. OP's original post on this thread was only a few minutes apart from another post that seemed pretty normal. Maybe I'm wrong and it's all true. I guess even if all of this is not true it can still serve as an example to illustrate the importance of doing the right thing and how a series of bad decisions can really screw up your life plans.

If it is true it's a horrible situation and I hope that fraternity is investigated and punished to the full extent of the law. And for Bender, if this is indeed true I hope you can face your mistakes head on and turn things around. It's too bad you were put in this situation by your fraternity but I hope you see how you could have handled things differently and learn from this. In my opinion part of doing the right thing now is taking action against your fraternity so nothing like this ever happens again.
 
Bender, first thing to learn that when you post something in the public domain, you have given up all expectations of privacy. Anyone with access has already been made aware. Secondly, unless your name is really Bender and you're not using an alias, then how would they even know to associate "Bender" with you? Additionally, the people that you are so worried about finding out about your situation probably already know more than you want them to. Hard to keep bad news to yourself when you try, let alone when you put it out there in the public domain. One more lesson to add to your education. About time you get used to the fact that there are repercussions to every action. Welcome to Adult 101.
 
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as an AFROTC cadet who DOES go to UT, I assure you there is no hazing on this level anywhere in the state as I have friends who pledge fraternities here at UT. Can't speak for Cali schools though.

But man am I sorry to hear that dude! Hope everything works out and just take ownership for your actions. I too got my scholarship suspended recently for getting 2 academic CE's, but I will be working extra hard now. I still think this thread should stay up as it shows so many mistakes made that could be avoided.

Once again, take ownership and just accept that whatever needs to happen will happen and there is nothing you can do about it at this point

Love your advice and comments to a fellow ROTC cadet having trouble. Good on you for supporting a cadet who made a mistake. Kids make mistakes in college and many learn from it and become successful. Not all military members and vets were perfect when they were 18 or 19 years old, but they turned themselves around. If the kid learned from it like you have, the military can possibly still be a career.

But man, you can't assure people that no fraternities in Texas haze. You can't even make that claim for UT Austin. This crap goes on at colleges and it's under the radar. It's not the norm, but it exists.
As respects Texas, this is from a local Texas paper about anti-hazing legislation that was passed:

" On May 9, the Texas Senate passed Senate Bill (SB) 50 by Senator Judith Zaffirini, D-Laredo, which would help combat the serious problem of hazing at colleges and universities. More than 60 students have died in fraternity-related incidents nationwide since 2005."
 
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In the past year there have been a couple deaths in Texas, but not at UT. UT got hit hard in 06-08 by about 38 million dollar verdict. But, tech, A&M, Prairie View, Dallas, Plano all have had issues. Not to mention West Virginia, Penn State, Cal., etc. It still goes on. in '15, there was a death at usmc, paris island for hazing. its probably there, just hidden from sight in the dark until someone has huevos enough to turn the lights on
 
Love your advice and comments to a fellow ROTC cadet having trouble. Good on you for supporting a cadet who made a mistake. Kids make mistakes in college and many learn from it and become successful. Not all military members and vets were perfect when they were 18 or 19 years old, but they turned themselves around. If the kid learned from it like you have, the military can possibly still be a career.

But man, you can't assure people that no fraternities in Texas haze. You can't even make that claim for UT Austin. This crap goes on at colleges and it's under the radar. It's not the norm, but it exists.
As respects Texas, this is from a local Texas paper about anti-hazing legislation that was passed:

" On May 9, the Texas Senate passed Senate Bill (SB) 50 by Senator Judith Zaffirini, D-Laredo, which would help combat the serious problem of hazing at colleges and universities. More than 60 students have died in fraternity-related incidents nationwide since 2005."

my apologies i should have been more specific - hazing does happen in almost every university in texas. I just meant that I have never heard of anything as severe as what Bender has mentioned here. I have heard rumors that some of top frats here in Texas do waterboard their pledges, so maybe what Bender is saying is actually truly factual...
 
my apologies i should have been more specific - hazing does happen in almost every university in texas. I just meant that I have never heard of anything as severe as what Bender has mentioned here. I have heard rumors that some of top frats here in Texas do waterboard their pledges, so maybe what Bender is saying is actually truly factual...
No apologies needed, I see what you mean. But I'll bet that frats who waterboard also do more than that - punching, drinking, leaving pledges stranded, etc. have long been a staple of these types of frats (and some sororities). Look at Penn State. Heck, I've heard stories that hazing goes on at some ROTC units. It goes on at Paris Island as golfindad mentioned above.
But the peer pressure is great in college. And the threat of retaliation of people speak is real (watch Burning Sands on Netflix). It sounds like you've got a good head on your shoulders and would walk away from these situations! Good luck turning that GPA around! And Hook 'em Horns.
 
Bender,

JMPO but this thread should not be locked. It has illustrated not only to every HS kid attending ROTC in the fall the pitfalls that may come in their future, but also HS candidates applying for a scholarship this fall.
~ Basically we are saying you are an ADULT not a kid when it comes to the military's perspective. Legally at 18 when you sign on that dotted line you are an adult. See my earlier post about 18 yo E1s assigned around the world in every branch.
~~Can you imagine an E1 on a flight line smoking pot at 4 a.m. and showing up to the flight line at 8 a.m.? If you want to go rated, how comfortable would you feel taxing the jet out on the runway? Bet as an officer you would bring them up on charges, because in the end of the day your life depended on that E1. Thus, if you think about it, well you get where the drift is going...right?

I get you are taking the hit, and probably hoped that maybe there was some way to get out of it and keep the scholarship. The problem impo is simple. Let's compare you to the other freshmen NOT in ROTC. Now take that kid and let's say come next fall they decide to join AFROTC as an AS250. They walk in to the det. Tell the cadre right up front that exact same situation, but because of it they left the frat. It probably would be given a pass as long as their gpa, and ROTC commitment is strong. Why is it different from your situation?
Simple. They were not in AFROTC as a freshmen. They have yet to take the DoDMERB exam. I am sure you remember there is a question on the exam regarding smoking pot, right?
~ The AF does not expect halo's on every cadet. They understand that kids experiment prior to making the commitment. What they do expect is following their regulations once you made the commitment.
That is where the difference occurs. You did it AFTER your commitment!

I have been here for eons. I can tell you every year this (smoking pot) comes up in different scenarios. Sorry to say, but the AF impo is the strictest of all branches. Experimental is not 3 or 5 or 9 + times. There was one poster here that was not on academic probation. He was not scholarship either. However, as an AS300 he fessed up that he actually smoked 3 times when he went for his TS clearance. As an AS200 on his DoDMERB for SFT he said 2x. The det fought for him, and yet he was disenrolled by HQ AFROTC.

I really wish you the best.

Again, part of being an adult and not a kid is acknowledging your faults/flaws and growing emotionally from them. Locking this thread impo is just showing that you are kid. It again says I care more about me and not about anyone else.
~ Leadership comes in many ways. Leading by example through showing the world your mistakes is still leadership.
 
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I have not officially separated from the Frat yet. I do plan on, but I am still in contact with my pledge trainer as he has been texting us non-stop for the past 3 days. He wants us to NOT press any charges as apparently it would be beneficial to everyone. He says that if i dont press charges, then no one needs to know about the underage drinking and torture routines they put us through. The only thing on paper would be the pledges were caught high... in california. Our university literally deals with 100s of high kids getting caught every year and could not care less about it. They said they will do nothing about my student status as long as they think I was only high for a night.

But after going through this thread I think I will raise awareness about the WHOLE situation. I think it is my only hope of possibly staying in the military.
 
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