AROTC MSIII - Contracted - Failed APFT

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SoFloDad

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I have a family member who has been in AROTC for 2 years and has just started his MSIII year. During this time, he has never passed his APFT.

This summer he was sent to Basic Camp, where he told his parents he had a PT test during the first few days (which he did not pass, again) but there was no other PT done throughout the Camp, and no other testing. He concluded the Camp advising his parents he would be Contracting once school starts again. This in itself seemed odd to me, but not my overall question.

If he Contracts as a non-scholarship MSIII, can he continue and complete his Junior year without ever passing the APFT? If so, at what point does PT become a disenrollment issue?

I understand as an MSIII your Fall and Spring APFT scores provide 3% each of your OML, and then your score in Advanced Camp adds an additional 6%. But will you be able to even attend Advanced Camp if you've never passed any of the PT tests?

Should his parents (and he) be prepared for the possibility of being disenrolled from AROTC?

Thank you!
 
Maybe one of the resident ROO's will chime in to give you a better answer.

From my understanding a cadet can't contract until they pass the APFT. At the conclusion of his Basic Camp they most likely told him that he could go back to his Battalion where he could contract, what he may not have relayed to hi parents is that the contract was dependent on passing the APFT. The Battalion will probably have at least one diagnostic APFT before the graded test, he will need to pass an APFT before they contract him, if can't during a certain time frame I would expect that disenrollment would be something they look at.
 
Agree with Jcleppe that a ROO is the best source for an answer here.

My best guess is that as a non-contract cadet, he/she will not be able to enroll in the Advanced Course until passing the APFT. It really is not the same as "disenrollment" which I interpret as meaning terminating an existing contract or scholarship.

In this case, a contract was never officially initiated, because of the lack of a APFT.

Did he/she pass DoDMERB?

What part of the APFT is the problem?
 
Jcleppe said:
Maybe one of the resident ROO's will chime in to give you a better answer.

From my understanding a cadet can't contract until they pass the APFT. At the conclusion of his Basic Camp they most likely told him that he could go back to his Battalion where he could contract, what he may not have relayed to hi parents is that the contract was dependent on passing the APFT. The Battalion will probably have at least one diagnostic APFT before the graded test, he will need to pass an APFT before they contract him, if can't during a certain time frame I would expect that disenrollment would be something they look at.
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Thank you @Jcleppe - this is basically what I understood as well. I couldn't see AROTC allowing him to Contract without passing the APFT. And, he definitely doesn't relay any negative information to his parents, so they are in the dark on any of this, except when I've asked specific questions about these things.
 
AROTC-dad said:
Agree with Jcleppe that a ROO is the best source for an answer here.

My best guess is that as a non-contract cadet, he/she will not be able to enroll in the Advanced Course until passing the APFT. It really is not the same as "disenrollment" which I interpret as meaning terminating an existing contract or scholarship.

In this case, a contract was never officially initiated, because of the lack of a APFT.

Did he/she pass DoDMERB?

What part of the APFT is the problem?
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@AROTC-dad - Basically, he has issues with the entire PT. He claims he finally passed the push-ups and sit-ups (one time), with the minimum amount needed for both...but the run is still a minute off.

I can only presume that he passed the DoDMERB. He has actually been in the Program since starting his Freshman year, as an MSI. However, in addition to never passing the APFT he is also overweight for his height, about 25lbs, which his parents had no idea there was even a height/weight requirement.

Needless to say, he has said he is Contracting, and is looking forward to receiving his monthly stipend and the ability to wear his uniform. I'm just unsure of how or why this could be allowed. Just a bit confused, I guess.
 
SoFloDad said:
Needless to say, he has said he is Contracting, and is looking forward to receiving his monthly stipend and the ability to wear his uniform. I'm just unsure of how or why this could be allowed. Just a bit confused, I guess.
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Gosh, this is difficult to say, but given the fact that he has not been able to improve enough to pass the APFT in two years, how is he going to deal with the stress of Advanced Camp, next summer? (17 days in the field, 12 mile ruck, sleep deprivation).

My DS saw some folks in absolute tears at camp who were in great physical condition. Your family member cadet really should get a conditioning coach to get in shape so that he can not just pass the APFT but to really kill it. It is also a matter of gaining the respect of his soldiers as a future platoon leader.

Good luck to him.
 
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Of course passing the APFT to contract is just step 1. He needs to pass it every subsequent year. He can do it. Thousands of kids do.

Can he pass the tape test? If not then I expect taking off the 25 extra pounds, or enough to pass the tape test, will put him in striking distance on the APFT. I think a conditioning and/or nutrition coach may be a good idea. Hoping for nothing but the best for your son.
 
SoFloDad said:
Basically, he has issues with the entire PT. He claims he finally passed the push-ups and sit-ups (one time), with the minimum amount needed for both...but the run is still a minute off.

I can only presume that he passed the DoDMERB. He has actually been in the Program since starting his Freshman year, as an MSI. However, in addition to never passing the APFT he is also overweight for his height, about 25lbs, which his parents had no idea there was even a height/weight requirement.

Needless to say, he has said he is Contracting, and is looking forward to receiving his monthly stipend and the ability to wear his uniform. I'm just unsure of how or why this could be allowed. Just a bit confused, I guess.
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If he is 25lbs over weight and is unable to pass the Tape Test, that alone will prevent him from getting a contract even if he finds a way to pass the APFT. Shaving one minute off the 2 mile run won't happen overnight, he will need to put in some serious road work which will also help with the weight issue. As Kinnem said, losing that 25lbs will help a lot with the APFT.

I don't see him contracting at the start of school if he is unable to pass the Height/Weight and APFT. Maybe the time he spent at Basic Camp has helped with his weight and APFT, he will find out soon enough when he starts his Junior Year at school. Best of luck to him.

Kinnem,
I don't believe the person in question is SoFloDad's son, I believe his son is a scholarship cadet that has had no issues in this regard.
 
Thanks @AROTC-dad and @kinnem - My DS has been trying to mentor him (long distance) and we've tried to pass along similar information to the family, but we're both frustrated it's falling on deaf ears.
 
Jcleppe said:
SoFloDad said:
Basically, he has issues with the entire PT. He claims he finally passed the push-ups and sit-ups (one time), with the minimum amount needed for both...but the run is still a minute off.

I can only presume that he passed the DoDMERB. He has actually been in the Program since starting his Freshman year, as an MSI. However, in addition to never passing the APFT he is also overweight for his height, about 25lbs, which his parents had no idea there was even a height/weight requirement.

Needless to say, he has said he is Contracting, and is looking forward to receiving his monthly stipend and the ability to wear his uniform. I'm just unsure of how or why this could be allowed. Just a bit confused, I guess.
Click to expand...

If he is 25lbs over weight and is unable to pass the Tape Test, that alone will prevent him from getting a contract even if he finds a way to pass the APFT. Shaving one minute off the 2 mile run won't happen overnight, he will need to put in some serious road work which will also help with the weight issue. As Kinnem said, losing that 25lbs will help a lot with the APFT.

I don't see him contracting at the start of school if he is unable to pass the Height/Weight and APFT. Maybe the time he spent at Basic Camp has helped with his weight and APFT, he will find out soon enough when he starts his Junior Year at school. Best of luck to him.

Kinnem,
I don't believe the person in question is SoFloDad's son, I believe his son is a scholarship cadet that has had no issues in this regard.
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This is true @Jcleppe - it is not my DS, but he has been trying very hard to pass along some much needed influence and motivation. It's difficult though thru long distance.
 
Just an update - this MSIII family member did NOT pass his latest September APFT either (short on sit-ups and the run), and will NOT be signing his Contract. I'm not sure what his future holds, but I guess he still feels confident he will make it thru and be commissioned after his MSIV year.
 
SoFloDad said:
Just an update - this MSIII family member did NOT pass his latest September APFT either (short on sit-ups and the run), and will NOT be signing his Contract. I'm not sure what his future holds, but I guess he still feels confident he will make it thru and be commissioned after his MSIV year.
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Thank you for the update, I was wondering! It might almost be better he he was not so confident, as this is all in his control, because if nothing changes in his training, then nothing will change in his testing, as I know you know very well. No judgement, we all struggle with something. I wish him and his family the best, I hope it works out well in the end.
 
Thanks for the update. I don’t know this young man, but the fact he is not situationally aware makes me question things. He is probably a great young man. It certainly won’t get any easier in the Army in PT or weight. In fact it gets harder as you get older. If he is struggling in these areas now, it will cause a lot of stress and misery as an officer. It could lead to a general discharge and even some review boards if he keeps on that track. It’s better they make this cut now instead of when there is even more on the line like his pay check, type of discharge, etc. Sometimes we don’t get out of our way. Investing in a coach and a nutritionist is not something a 20-21 year old thinks about. Probably would of done him a lot. I do wish him well.
 
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SoFloDad said:
Just an update - this MSIII family member did NOT pass his latest September APFT either (short on sit-ups and the run), and will NOT be signing his Contract. I'm not sure what his future holds, but I guess he still feels confident he will make it thru and be commissioned after his MSIV year.
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I don't believe you can participate in the Advanced Course (MS3/MS4) unless you have contracted. Perhaps OCS is an available route. By that time there is likely to be a revised test.

He should be aware that even commissioned officers are required to take the APFT twice a year. It's not as if you pass it once in your career and it's forever behind you.
 
If he was at my school he’d be getting the ultimatum at this point. I wouldn’t let him continue in the program in the spring without passing his PT test and contracting. Maybe his school is hurting in that year group and willing to drag this kid over the finish line, but he is obviously having trouble meeting the standards, and I can imagine at some point his unit is going to run out of patience. Hopefully he is planning to serve in the Guard or Reserves, because I can’t imagine him being high on the OML, and he is going to have some trouble next year at advanced camp. Hope he can get his act together.
 
Thank you for your input @NavyHoops @EDelahanty and @clarksonarmy - I've been trying to explain this to his parents so they can help 'motivate' him some more.

If nothing else, this Thread should help some others realize what is expected during your ROTC career, and how important the APFT is, especially at your MSIII level, and throughout your Army career.
 
AROTC-dad said:
SoFloDad said:
I've been trying to explain this to his parents so they can help 'motivate' him some more.
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@SoFloDad - Do you know if his grades are good? Have you spoken to him directly? Can his parents help him with a personal trainer? I am bewildered on how this young man can continue in this way. :(
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@AROTC-dad - I don't know his specific GPA, but I know he changed from a STEM degree at the end of his Soph year to a non-STEM because he failed a math class. Even still, I'm assuming his grades are good enough, but not sure.

Without going into the specifics here, speaking with him about this (even in a constructive way) does not seem to help...arrogance gets in the way, unfortunately. I think he is just going to have to use all of this as 'Learning Lesson'.
 
I may be way off here, but is sounds to me like this young man may not really want to contract and not passing the APFT is a way to that end without really "quitting". Seems that if he truly wanted it he could find a way to get in shape and get it done. If his heart isn't in it, well...
 
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