West Point vs Norwich animosity

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Humey

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Not sure if this is the right forum, but I will ask anyway. Just read up how the founder of Norwich was the former supertinent of West Point and how he was basically kicked out. My question is has their been a historic animosity between the two institutions. I read one article about WP and it was very negative about Partridge including the fact that he supposedly gave preferences to those students he liked. While I havent read anything about him ouside of Wikpedia regarding Norwich, I have to imagine he was revered by the Norwich while he was there and for many years after. He is credited for creating Rotc. Actually it almost seems like we are talking about two different men. One who seems to have made a mess at WP and another who created a new insitituion that led to creation of other military academies. Was their hostility between the two schools while he was alive and did the hostility outlive him? Not trying to start a fight, just curious especially how the view about him wouldd be different depending if you are talking to someone who went to WP or Norwich.
 
Humey said:
Not sure if this is the right forum, but I will ask anyway. Just read up how the founder of Norwich was the former supertinent of West Point and how he was basically kicked out. My question is has their been a historic animosity between the two institutions. I read one article about WP and it was very negative about Partridge including the fact that he supposedly gave preferences to those students he liked. While I havent read anything about him ouside of Wikpedia regarding Norwich, I have to imagine he was revered by the Norwich while he was there and for many years after. He is credited for creating Rotc. Actually it almost seems like we are talking about two different men. One who seems to have made a mess at WP and another who created a new insitituion that led to creation of other military academies. Was their hostility between the two schools while he was alive and did the hostility outlive him? Not trying to start a fight, just curious especially how the view about him wouldd be different depending if you are talking to someone who went to WP or Norwich.
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Served with a couple of Norwich grads in the 80's and never heard of any animosity between USMA and Norwich, other than the friendly rivalry similar to that with VMI, Citadel, and some prominent ROTC programs. Since he founded Norwich in 1819, any animosity likely died out long ago - probably before the Civil War.
 
jl123 said:
Humey said:
Not sure if this is the right forum, but I will ask anyway. Just read up how the founder of Norwich was the former supertinent of West Point and how he was basically kicked out. My question is has their been a historic animosity between the two institutions. I read one article about WP and it was very negative about Partridge including the fact that he supposedly gave preferences to those students he liked. While I havent read anything about him ouside of Wikpedia regarding Norwich, I have to imagine he was revered by the Norwich while he was there and for many years after. He is credited for creating Rotc. Actually it almost seems like we are talking about two different men. One who seems to have made a mess at WP and another who created a new insitituion that led to creation of other military academies. Was their hostility between the two schools while he was alive and did the hostility outlive him? Not trying to start a fight, just curious especially how the view about him wouldd be different depending if you are talking to someone who went to WP or Norwich.
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Served with a couple of Norwich grads in the 80's and never heard of any animosity between USMA and Norwich, other than the friendly rivalry similar to that with VMI, Citadel, and some prominent ROTC programs. Since he founded Norwich in 1819, any animosity likely died out long ago - probably before the Civil War.
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At this point, I agree it would be friendly rivalry. I am curious if that was always the case
 
The historical documentation sides with President James Monroe for wanting to take West Point in a less liberal Arts education pathway and towards a full-time French model of nothing but career officers with no citizenry training and more purely a war footing for every lecture and lesson. Captain Alden Partridge believed a more well rounded soldier made a better citizen and leader. Monroe sent Brevet Major Sylvanus Thayer to replace Partridge, however the student body supported Partridge including his brief 48 hour mutiny of the entire school to Partridge's favor.

Partridge was and still is a darling of West Point having been promoted to 1st LT out of graduation, one of only two cadets to have been so honored.

On 11/11/1817, Partridge was convicted of mutiny for attempting to maintain his program at West Point. Monroe allowed him to resign.

But the historical literature doesn't show animosity, only reverence for Partridge's belief in well rounded citizen soldiers. Many long standing traditions are rooted in Partridge's changes according to his trial records and testimonies, even the historical texts of West Point published in 1891.

So it's a misnomer that he "made a mess" at West Point. The same ideals Partridge presented to Monroe are the same ideals he founded at Norwich *and* taught to the Founders of Clemson, VMI and the Citadel. In the mid 1830s Partridge was invited to train drill and military science in Virginia and South Carolina and out of those lectures came his direct role in advising the founders.
 
DesertCaliMom said:
The historical documentation sides with President James Monroe for wanting to take West Point in a less liberal Arts education pathway and towards a full-time French model of nothing but career officers with no citizenry training and more purely a war footing for every lecture and lesson. Captain Alden Partridge believed a more well rounded soldier made a better citizen and leader. Monroe sent Brevet Major Sylvanus Thayer to replace Partridge, however the student body supported Partridge including his brief 48 hour mutiny of the entire school to Partridge's favor.

Partridge was and still is a darling of West Point having been promoted to 1st LT out of graduation, one of only two cadets to have been so honored.

On 11/11/1817, Partridge was convicted of mutiny for attempting to maintain his program at West Point. Monroe allowed him to resign.

But the historical literature doesn't show animosity, only reverence for Partridge's belief in well rounded citizen soldiers. Many long standing traditions are rooted in Partridge's changes according to his trial records and testimonies, even the historical texts of West Point published in 1891.

So it's a misnomer that he "made a mess" at West Point. The same ideals Partridge presented to Monroe are the same ideals he founded at Norwich *and* taught to the Founders of Clemson, VMI and the Citadel. In the mid 1830s Partridge was invited to train drill and military science in Virginia and South Carolina and out of those lectures came his direct role in advising the founders.
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Hello Desert Mom, How's your Rook?
 
DesertCaliMom said:
The historical documentation sides with President James Monroe for wanting to take West Point in a less liberal Arts education pathway and towards a full-time French model of nothing but career officers with no citizenry training and more purely a war footing for every lecture and lesson. Captain Alden Partridge believed a more well rounded soldier made a better citizen and leader. Monroe sent Brevet Major Sylvanus Thayer to replace Partridge, however the student body supported Partridge including his brief 48 hour mutiny of the entire school to Partridge's favor.

Partridge was and still is a darling of West Point having been promoted to 1st LT out of graduation, one of only two cadets to have been so honored.

On 11/11/1817, Partridge was convicted of mutiny for attempting to maintain his program at West Point. Monroe allowed him to resign.

But the historical literature doesn't show animosity, only reverence for Partridge's belief in well rounded citizen soldiers. Many long standing traditions are rooted in Partridge's changes according to his trial records and testimonies, even the historical texts of West Point published in 1891.

So it's a misnomer that he "made a mess" at West Point. The same ideals Partridge presented to Monroe are the same ideals he founded at Norwich *and* taught to the Founders of Clemson, VMI and the Citadel. In the mid 1830s Partridge was invited to train drill and military science in Virginia and South Carolina and out of those lectures came his direct role in advising the founders.
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thanks for the great response. Makes the story even more interesting
 
Humey said:
thanks for the great response. Makes the story even more interesting
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Thanks! I've been reading everything I can get my hands on about the history of the school and the past presidents. 200 years of amazing men and women have been so inspirational and affected so much change on the American citizen warriors. It's awesome to learn where the traditions comes from, too.
 
DesertCaliMom said:
The historical documentation sides with President James Monroe for wanting to take West Point in a less liberal Arts education pathway and towards a full-time French model of nothing but career officers with no citizenry training and more purely a war footing for every lecture and lesson. Captain Alden Partridge believed a more well rounded soldier made a better citizen and leader. Monroe sent Brevet Major Sylvanus Thayer to replace Partridge, however the student body supported Partridge including his brief 48 hour mutiny of the entire school to Partridge's favor.

Partridge was and still is a darling of West Point having been promoted to 1st LT out of graduation, one of only two cadets to have been so honored.

On 11/11/1817, Partridge was convicted of mutiny for attempting to maintain his program at West Point. Monroe allowed him to resign.

But the historical literature doesn't show animosity, only reverence for Partridge's belief in well rounded citizen soldiers. Many long standing traditions are rooted in Partridge's changes according to his trial records and testimonies, even the historical texts of West Point published in 1891.

So it's a misnomer that he "made a mess" at West Point. The same ideals Partridge presented to Monroe are the same ideals he founded at Norwich *and* taught to the Founders of Clemson, VMI and the Citadel. In the mid 1830s Partridge was invited to train drill and military science in Virginia and South Carolina and out of those lectures came his direct role in advising the founders.
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I am a civilian woman, and this intellectual culture is why I chose Norwich for grad school. Mister Partridge’s fine character and intellectual verve remain— shockingly [and encouragingly]— intact after 200 years. Hard for me not to gush, but everything you said about Partridge’s character came shining thru to me 110%.

I hope so very much that our fellow Americans might learn more about him… as we continue rolling forward with increased disdain for “pure” academia. It takes a personal investment in liberal arts to understand its value to any and everything worth doing. Thank you so much for your time^^
 
So glad it was revived, interesting history there for sure. Son's Plan B was Norwich, I knew it was the birthplace of ROTC but not much more than that. Great read.
 
Korab said:
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The feeling is mutual on the Hill. They don't interact with WP cadets at all. Norwich is so far up north and it's a Yankee school they have no rivalry with any of the other SMC's either. They are D3 so they only play the coasties and USMMA and right now football sucks at NU so there's no real interest there either.
 
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