My DS says the lockdowns and the suspension of almost all ECAs have been hard on everyone because most tight friendships happen through teams and ECAs. You won’t have high opinions of everyone in your company (and they of you) but you learn to get along. But he says there just isn’t much to do on the Yard when ECAs aren’t happening. That might be a factor in thinking about not coming back. The lack of stuff to do is an aberration but that may not be clear to plebes.
If your 4C/plebe is ready to quit ....
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And it’s also a similar situation elsewhere. Despite what friends are posting on social media. Those are highlights of an otherwise tedious, boring, virtual-in-your-dorm-room week. The reality, is that life is very ‘un-normal’ everywhere. I would agree that there are more freedoms somewhere else, but not complete freedom. One has to look beyond....stay goal oriented. The big picture kind of thing.
My plebe and I talked about how quickly this first semester actually went for them. It’s so true, the days are long, but the months are short.
Adding something else: your person cannot simply ‘not go back’. They will have to go back and (I assume) out process. At the very least get their belongings. There is a very involved process plebe summer for leaving. I don’t know about during the regular AC year. But, they will have some sort of counseling/inquiry process to go through. One thing for certain, imo (bc you asked in your original post about how parents handle this) would be for mom and dad to not enable them to simply quit and not go back. They need to handle this. After having all these discussions, it’s out of your control. But they have to deal with the process.
I would ask them, at the very least, to speak with chaplains about it. Before deciding. My plebe had a meeting with them during the summer and they are FANTASTIC. My plebe agrees....they have superpowers. They are also a resource for parents. Obviously they cannot dishonor confidence, but they may be a good resource for you as well. The one my plebe spoke with graduated from USNA, and was very, very helpful (my plebe was dealing with covid fears/issues...chaplains even were able to assist with that).
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Wonderful comments by all!
Covid perspective:
There is added stress about Covid Q&I. Here is what we told our DD to alleviate, or at least have perspective about it:
Everyone will likely do at least one tour of duty through Q&I, be deemed presumptive positive etc, and it is spectacular luck if you don't. You cannot even really control if you get Covid, because of the close living arrangement and who traces to who. What you can do is to make the most of all your time not in Q&I, being AWARE of the opportunities that you MAKE and experience things you never would have in any "normal" year. If you either catch Covid or are contract traced, it will happen at the least opportune time, and have a multi-step negative spillover. But this is what happens to EVERY Cadet at some point, so you have to be as strategic and clear-minded when it comes. Always try to work ahead, and to have in your mind what you will take and who you can rely upon if and when you are told to immediately go to Q&I. (And here is where I went into my EHPL speech (endless, hopeless, profoundly lonely): 10 or 14 days in Q&I will seem like nothing to those outside. Recall when your squadmates had to leave, and then you cheered when they came back? Did you think they really missed much? Did it feel like they just went and now they are back? Exactly.
If you get Covid, you are at the safest place on earth. The other places are the sister SAs. You will get the best care and oversight. Hopefully you are in the big % that either have no symptoms, or exhibit classic young people symptoms and no more. But again, this is out of your control, and there are procedures in place for every eventuality. You are at the safest place on earth. This is not something you can optimize. You cannot make your goal to not get Covid. Only to satisfy, and heed all the precautions to increase your chances, and hope for a lucky not-contract-trace.
Covid perspective:
There is added stress about Covid Q&I. Here is what we told our DD to alleviate, or at least have perspective about it:
Everyone will likely do at least one tour of duty through Q&I, be deemed presumptive positive etc, and it is spectacular luck if you don't. You cannot even really control if you get Covid, because of the close living arrangement and who traces to who. What you can do is to make the most of all your time not in Q&I, being AWARE of the opportunities that you MAKE and experience things you never would have in any "normal" year. If you either catch Covid or are contract traced, it will happen at the least opportune time, and have a multi-step negative spillover. But this is what happens to EVERY Cadet at some point, so you have to be as strategic and clear-minded when it comes. Always try to work ahead, and to have in your mind what you will take and who you can rely upon if and when you are told to immediately go to Q&I. (And here is where I went into my EHPL speech (endless, hopeless, profoundly lonely): 10 or 14 days in Q&I will seem like nothing to those outside. Recall when your squadmates had to leave, and then you cheered when they came back? Did you think they really missed much? Did it feel like they just went and now they are back? Exactly.
If you get Covid, you are at the safest place on earth. The other places are the sister SAs. You will get the best care and oversight. Hopefully you are in the big % that either have no symptoms, or exhibit classic young people symptoms and no more. But again, this is out of your control, and there are procedures in place for every eventuality. You are at the safest place on earth. This is not something you can optimize. You cannot make your goal to not get Covid. Only to satisfy, and heed all the precautions to increase your chances, and hope for a lucky not-contract-trace.
militarymom2020
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I too have a plebe that is dreading to go back. I don't know if this year was completely different due to Covid but it was not enjoyable in any aspect. He had envisioned building comaderie, training, and experiencing brotherhood which he was not able to do. The food was unedible most of the days and went to bed starving on some. He was placed in isolation 2 times and experienced ROM another two times. A total of 8 weeks in a room can make a person really depressed. Rats crawling above his head at night while sleeping and running across his feet during study hours. When we visited last year it didn't appear this dreadful. The icing on the cake was the online classes that were so difficult that he couldn't benefit from EI with Covid measures. I heard this next semester will be worse as they experience there dark ages. I know this is his decision to make but as a parent I really don't know what to say to motivate him.
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You/he is right. It wasnt like this a last year. At all. Food at King Hall, together, is not what they are experiencing in styrofoam clamshells. But guess what? State college XX here has cold yucky food in clamshells. And sometimes they run out. So these issues aren’t unique to USNA. Or any college.
I have two there. A plebe and an upperclass. My plebe spent 25 consecutive days in iso...alone. So I get it. My upperclass is locked in like a plebe. I get it!
The way I would manage this as a parent, is to make them understand what they are giving up in exchange for a few weeks of comfort (assuming your person is going to stay home). Bc if they go anywhere else, it will be a similar experience. At least it wont be a normal, fantastic experience.
I would talk to them about the upcoming summer trainings that should be occurring (my oldest flew helicopters and shot huge guns off a boat in a pretty cool country), that their peers won’t be doing. IOW It’s worth the sacrifice and wait.
I know that food, at least, should be improving. I heard the director of King Hall speak to this. He said he hopes to have dining indoor (and therefore better food) by February. Things will be improving.
It’s a shame, imo, to give up especially after already going through the hard part....with changes coming, on the horizon! 2nd semester, they have stuff to look forward to: signing up for summer trainings. Sea trials. Herndon. Declaring their major. Plebe restrictions begin to decrease. They will be choosing roommates. Selecting (better) rooms for next year. Applying for leadership responsibilities. Hopefully, liberty will open us. 2nd semester is better than 1st. My oldest, and his buddies, laugh when I mention the ‘dark ages’. It doesn’t affect them. It’s all the same. So this may not be a thing for yours, either. There are a few long weekends, and we are planning trips out there...hopefully getting them off the yard for a little R&R. It’s manageable.
Have to keep the big picture in mind. And this, too, shall pass.
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USNAhopeful2025
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Any feedback on the rats from militarymom’s post? Is this common in the dorms? Yuck!!!
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It’s always tough going back. Not back to school. I don’t know about that. It’s tough going back to the ship after spending time on leave. Mom’s home cooking. The comfortable bed. Friends on Friday night. It got easier after a few years and especially after I got married and had kids. The early years were rough. Going back to a ship where I slept with 30 other men in a cramped compartment. Some nights it was too cold and some nights too hot. Food on the mess decks was usually adequate but many times not. When the cooks ran out there was always peanut butter and jelly. Navy PB&J isn’t like what you have at home. It comes in a metal can. It’s been in that can so long the food tastes like a roll of nickels.
What’s really hard these days is taking my son to the airport to fly back to California. Or the Middle East. There were numerous times he wanted to quit his atypical journey to commissioning. In many ways things get even tougher after putting on the gold bars. He’s been in the Marine Corps going on 10 years and we see him once a year. Time sure goes quickly.
What’s really hard these days is taking my son to the airport to fly back to California. Or the Middle East. There were numerous times he wanted to quit his atypical journey to commissioning. In many ways things get even tougher after putting on the gold bars. He’s been in the Marine Corps going on 10 years and we see him once a year. Time sure goes quickly.
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None other than knowing old buildings have old building problems...
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Just wait. I was on four ships and every one had roaches. Lots of them. And I was the guy responsible for killing them. Business was good.
USNAhopeful2025
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yuck yuck!! we live in texas and have REALLY BIG roaches!!!
USNAhopeful2025
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totally get that - but rats crawling overhead while sleeping?? I think I would die! glad I am the mom!
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Builds character. We lived in a fantastic turn of the century historical home. That had bats in the walls. As long as the left me alone, it was all good.
Someone that lives there will have to opine on this. Im certain that some stories that are told, are often at least slightly embellished. I asked my two and they haven’t had issues.
Boymomof3
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It sounds likes some issues are unique to the SAs but the food issue I don’t think is. Over a socially distanced bonfire, our friends were telling us their DDs story (private college in the NE) which they are required to pay for this “meal plan”.... meals are dropped off in clam shells at a certain time - she has class during this time. So by the time she’s able to get it, there is very little food for her to grab. They pay for this “meal” but then she has to go make some sort of meal in her dorm room. She calls, they call, etc but the situation hasn’t changed. Seems surreal to me - like how the heck is this happening but I guess colleges don’t have everything figured out either....
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A timely reminder as you prepare offspring to head off to dorm living - how to secure food in containers.
Mids who departed for spring break at USNA and then did not return - food left in rooms rotted, molded, attracted all kinds of bugs and vermin. Bancroft Hall was a ghost town for some months. There was not the usual rhythm of occupancy, room inspections, regular cleanings as summer block changes occurred. As someone above said, “old buildings have old problems.” Add in a buffet with few people around, and the ratnet lit up with the word.
Mids who departed for spring break at USNA and then did not return - food left in rooms rotted, molded, attracted all kinds of bugs and vermin. Bancroft Hall was a ghost town for some months. There was not the usual rhythm of occupancy, room inspections, regular cleanings as summer block changes occurred. As someone above said, “old buildings have old problems.” Add in a buffet with few people around, and the ratnet lit up with the word.
From 1842: “It's a grind that you have to get through. Regimental life plus college work is difficult. I kept a journal all 4 years and checked off each day as a count down.”
These quotes above from HCopter and 1842 above interest me. We KNOW our kids haven’t chosen the easy path. My kid has done fairly well with academics, etc. But if “it’s not about being happy” or you’re so miserable that you’re counting down for four years, is that really the way? Happiness is fleeting day by day, of course, but it seems fair for some level of happiness to be among your goals at an academy and in your career, right? This is the struggle as a parent, and someone at some point remarked accurately that a mom is only as happy as her most miserable kid.
1842, did you consider leaving in year one? What made you stay then? (I’m very sorry about your mom.)
Thank you for sharing this! Rats and horrible food haven’t been an issue for my 4C, thankfully, but the disappointment about camaraderie rings very true. I’ll keep your son in my thoughts and hope his spring is better.
I will say - this post prompted a conversation with my plebe. He is not looking forward to going back - but mostly because the comforts of home are better here than the past 6 months there. He did say - that he would advise (if he could) any plebe looking to leave to not leave now. He said "The reason you sign in year two, is because you embraced the suck in year one and got a better feeling in year two" Granted year one's suck was extraordinary because of covid but I would say if your plebe can get through year one and then expierence year two in a (GOD WILLING) covid-less environment then perhaps he/she might be glad they didn't walk in year one. If they still feel they are not where they belong - they can walk with their head held high knowing he/she gave it their all. Best of luck to your DS/DD!
1842
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1842
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When I went to school, you had no contact with your folks for months. You could write a letter after a period of time but you were monitored. . All my other friends were having a blast at college and I was shining shoes, polishing brass, and geting hazed. The first time I could make a call home was before parents weekend. I told my mom how horrible it was and miserable it was. My dad got on the phone (WW2 Pacific Vet) and said 'you are making your mom cry, I was killing Jap's when I was your age' and hung up. His message was you made your bed, now lie in it.
My son is a senior now and I tease him about going back to military school -- counting down the days... and I tell him he can do the same to his kids if they go to a military college and he laughs.
My advice. Be firm, 'you are going back, you made a commitment, nothing easy is worthwhile and nothing worthwhile is easy'. But be supportive. "i understand how you feel, it will get better'. I
There is a guy who shows up at our reunions who was a freshmen with us who dropped out. He always states he wishes he could go back and stick it out.
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Worth remembering the saying about time at SAs being broken into three “equal” parts: plebe summer, plebe ac year, the final three years.
So yes, pandemic conditions stink — and they stink at every college. But if a plebe can stick it out for one more semester, they’re literally two-thirds through the experience, with some of the best stuff still to come!
So yes, pandemic conditions stink — and they stink at every college. But if a plebe can stick it out for one more semester, they’re literally two-thirds through the experience, with some of the best stuff still to come!