Sway of Army ROTC on Yale, Stanford, Princeton, Harvard Admissions?

takethegamedeepTM

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Hi all,
Reading through the forums I've learned a little about how when applying for the AROTC scholarship, establishing a strong connection with the ROO or PMS at a university may have sway on the admissions process for said university. I was wondering if anyone has experience/anecdotes/knowledge on how much the AROTC scholarship can help with admissions at each of Yale, Stanford, Princeton, and Harvard... I'm especially curious since Yale, Stanford, and Harvard all have cross-town army ROTC programs so would the ROO or PMS at the cross-town ROTC program (e.g., University of New Haven in the case of Yale) still have sway over admissions at the university (e.g., Yale)? What about the ROO or PMS at SCU--would they be able to advocate for an applicant for Stanford?

Many thanks!
 
The last 4-5 years Stanford has not accepted any 4 yr winners. The ROOs at each of these schools will give you better info than anyone on this forum. Since none of us work at these programs
 
We found the ROTC connection at Princeton incredibly helpful. He offered to help my son through the admissions process. Princeton is spectacular, but the room and board still would have made it difficult for us even with the scholarship as a single parent household. Nothing negative to say about this Ivy. With a desire for graduate school down the road, the debt load for my son was a concern. Reach out…we were very impressed with Princeton.
 
We found the ROTC connection at Princeton incredibly helpful. He offered to help my son through the admissions process. Princeton is spectacular, but the room and board still would have made it difficult for us even with the scholarship as a single parent household. Nothing negative to say about this Ivy. With a desire for graduate school down the road, the debt load for my son was a concern. Reach out…we were very impressed with Princeton.
Just a note about “graduate school down the road,” there are many threads about funded graduate degrees for active duty and veterans, with a little searching. If the internal search function doesn’t pop them right up, use an external Google search string with “site:www.serviceacademyforums.com” embedded in your string.

As a general statement, there are many ways to obtain advanced degree(s) on the military dime and/or time.
- There is full-time duty status attendance at a military graduate school (Naval Postgraduate School, Air Force Institute of Technology, Army War College, and many more) or at a civilian graduate school. Among my Navy friends and USNA sponsor family alumni, this has included MIT, Stanford, Georgetown, Duke, Berkeley, Penn, Cal Poly, and many others.
- There is Tuition Assistance to pay for after-hours or remote grad school programs, which picks up most of the cost.

Any degree program using the military’s dime or time does require additional obligated service, but often it is allowed to be “paid out” concurrently with other service obligation incurred.

Once separated or retired from the military, the generous Post-9/11 GI Bill is a superb way to be a full-time or remote or after-hours graduate student after leaving the military. Certificate programs too. Most universities have a full-time veteran education benefits specialist in Admissions or the Bursar’s office. The VA covers tuition at state schools. The Yellow Ribbon program is a program whereby private universities cover the difference with scholarships. I donate money annually to my own undergrad private university’s Yellow Ribbon Fund; it covers 100% of the differential. That’s how one of our USNA sponsor family alumni attended Stanford B school after he completed his Navy service; another went to Georgetown and is now with DOS Foreign Service. Another used Tuition Assistance while on active duty (Navy helo pilot) to do a remote program with one of her home state Colorado universities to get an appropriate degree that set her up to join the National Park Service after separation. I used the full-time Naval Postgraduate school for 1 Master’s, Tuition Assistance for the other, GI Bill for grad certificates. Law school, med school, vet school, others - they are all covered.



There should be no reason to incur grad school loan debt, if the military and veteran education benefits are used smartly.
 
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Thank you very much MontanaStateArmyROTC and tommytictoc for your insights about Stanford and Princeton! Does the type of effect you mentioned only hold if one places the school as their top choice on the ROTC scholarship application? Does anyone have general insights on selecting/ranking schools for the ROTC application?

Generally, would such a connection be established through reaching out to the ROO and participating in an interview? Also, to what extent can the Princeton ROO help, i.e., did he offer to help with the application (I saw this on another thread about AROTC) or would be able to support the student in the Admissions Office?

If anyone has insights about Yale please let me know, that would be highly appreciated!
 
General comments on ranking schools.

1. Rank them in the Order you actually prefer. The application processes are totally separate so trying to game the system is a total waste of time.

2. Do not rely on the purported ROTC influence when ranking schools. Any influence they have is only going to work in borderline cases, if they work at all.

3. Consider what you would do in the case you find ROTC is not for you and you drop from the program, or you screw up and are dropped from the program? Could you afford to go there? Would you transfer? Should they really be on your list?

4. Be aware of the travel requirements, as you mention, for cross-town units. Can you handle the travel? Does the unit provide transportation? Is cross-town travel required at all? How often? If you're not willing to sign up for the specific cross-town aspects, should it be on your list? Call the unit to ask questions about specific cross-town travel requirements.

Remember you can change the preference of colleges after you submit the application, so you can submit your list and refine it, based on any further research, later.
 
4 years ago, my DD applied to several universities. She placed her AROTC scholarship at Princeton as her #1 choice for regular decision. She placed her NROTC scholarship at Yale as her #1 choice early decision. She was admitted to both Princeton and Yale. She was rejected by Harvard, MIT, Penn and Duke where she had no ROTC scholarships placed. Thus, the question as to whether the AROTC has pull at Princeton is undoubtedly YES. Obviously the NROTC has big pull at Yale as well.

I would strongly advise you against attending a cross-town ROTC program as the programs require significant committment and hours even before the commute. Based on my observation over the last 4 years, there is significant attrition of ROTC students even when the program is on campus. I cannot imagine how much higher the attrition is for a crosstown commute. Princeton is the obvious choice to place your AROTC at since the program is on campus.

In my opinion, you are wasting your time placing an AROTC scholarship at the other universities you mentioned since they do not have the AROTC on campus. You also would have a much lower probability to ever complete the AROTC program at crosstown AROTC schools.
 
Hi all,
Reading through the forums I've learned a little about how when applying for the AROTC scholarship, establishing a strong connection with the ROO or PMS at a university may have sway on the admissions process for said university. I was wondering if anyone has experience/anecdotes/knowledge on how much the AROTC scholarship can help with admissions at each of Yale, Stanford, Princeton, and Harvard... I'm especially curious since Yale, Stanford, and Harvard all have cross-town army ROTC programs so would the ROO or PMS at the cross-town ROTC program (e.g., University of New Haven in the case of Yale) still have sway over admissions at the university (e.g., Yale)? What about the ROO or PMS at SCU--would they be able to advocate for an applicant for Stanford?

Many thanks!
I’ve heard Princeton AROTC has influence but the PMS will never present a scholarship winner to Admissions who isn’t at least highly competitive with the general admissions pool of candidates.
 
4 years ago, my DD applied to several universities. She placed her AROTC scholarship at Princeton as her #1 choice for regular decision. She placed her NROTC scholarship at Yale as her #1 choice early decision. She was admitted to both Princeton and Yale. She was rejected by Harvard, MIT, Penn and Duke where she had no ROTC scholarships placed. Thus, the question as to whether the AROTC has pull at Princeton is undoubtedly YES. Obviously the NROTC has big pull at Yale as well.

I would strongly advise you against attending a cross-town ROTC program as the programs require significant committment and hours even before the commute. Based on my observation over the last 4 years, there is significant attrition of ROTC students even when the program is on campus. I cannot imagine how much higher the attrition is for a crosstown commute. Princeton is the obvious choice to place your AROTC at since the program is on campus.

In my opinion, you are wasting your time placing an AROTC scholarship at the other universities you mentioned since they do not have the AROTC on campus. You also would have a much lower probability to ever complete the AROTC program at crosstown AROTC schools.
I agree that the ROTC programs that are “host” schools have the most pull with admissions.
 
Thank you all so much for your help! Few more questions:
1. Can schools see the order you rank them on your AROTC application?
2. Several have mentioned that Princeton AROTC could have an impact on admissions. Would this only have effect if one applies SCEA (early round) to Princeton or would such an effect still hold if one applies early to another school (say Yale for example) and applies RD to Princeton?
3. Would the PMS/ROO at a school still be willing to present a student to the Admissions Office if the applicant places the school as their first choice but does not apply early to that school?
 
Your AROTC scholarship will ultimately be placed at 1 school and 1 school only. Assuming you have good numbers for that school, your scholarship may help you stand out from other applicants but only at the 1 school the AROTC scholarship is placed at. Applying SCEA should give you some advantage over applying Regular Decision. However, your AROTC scholarship Regular Decision placed at 1 school may be all you need assuming that school still has AROTC slots to fill.

From my DD's experience, the AROTC scholarship will not help you and may actually work against you at all highly ranked schools other than the 1 school the scholarship is placed at. In other words, why would an AROTC unit use their limited chits to help a student get in the school knowing that the school is not the candidate's #1 choice when they could use their limited chits on candidates they knew had their school / unit as their #1 choice. Hence, units will use their chits smartly to increase the school / unit's yield numbers. Admissions officers will know when the unit says they want X student that the student is serious about attending that school.
 
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Your AROTC scholarship will ultimately be placed at 1 school and 1 school only. Assuming you have good numbers for that school, your scholarship may help you stand out from other applicants but only at the 1 school the AROTC scholarship is placed at. Applying SCEA should give you some advantage over applying Regular Decision. However, your AROTC scholarship Regular Decision placed at 1 school may be all you need assuming that school still has AROTC slots to fill.

From my DD's experience, the AROTC scholarship will not help you and may actually work against you at all highly ranked schools other than the 1 school the scholarship is placed at. In other words, why would an AROTC unit use their limited chits to help a student get in the school knowing that the school is not the candidate's #1 choice when they could use their limited chits on candidates they knew had their school / unit as their #1 choice. Hence, units will use their chits smartly to increase the school / unit's yield numbers. Admissions officers will know when the unit says they want X student that the student is serious about attending that school.
I thought it was three schools.
Makes sense you do not advocate for a kid that will ultimately pick another school.
However with a 4-7% admittance rate- kids need a choice 1,2,3,4,5.
 
If you would be happy with Princeton, rank it first in your AROTC app and apply ED or EA (whatever Princeton has). That is likely to be your best shot at the most favorable outcome. Another SAF member's son did that a couple of years ago to Princeton, didn't think he had much of a shot at getting in and low and behold, he did. Applying early with a commitment (as my son did to his top civilian choice) seems like it would be your best shot at getting a ROO or PMS to help, if they can. And while you don't have to do your interview at that school, if you're all-in on that school, make the effort to do your interview at that school and meet the PMS or ROO if it's not too late.
 
Thanks NJDadofDSUSMA2024Hopeful and everyone else for your insight!

What are your tips/guidance for getting a ROO or PMS to help/advocate for you in admissions. If I'm not currently a senior but will be soon, is it worth reaching out to the ROO/PMS and asking to meet with them when I visit these schools?
 
I wouldn't directly ask the ROO/PMS to advocate for you. Schedule your AROTC interview with the school that interests you most.
Perform well at the interview and the rest will fall into place.
The sooner the better. The early bird gets the worm.
 
I'm actually in my senior year now! The application process has been a great experience, and I aim to give an update in the coming months!
 
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