Boxing class

01magen3

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Sep 20, 2022
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Hello-I was wanting to gain some clarification on the boxing class that cadets are now required to take. I’ve seen several posts in various groups about kids getting multiple concussions in this class. Can someone please help me understand why, with all of the head injury research, we are unnecessarily exposing cadets to this risk (which is clearly high in this particular class)? I was told the coach tells them “Good Job” when they injure someone. Seems like a lawsuit waiting to happen. Can someone please explain the rationale for this class? Women used to do unarmed combat which seems infinitely more useful and realistically necessary skill,
 
First, women used to take self-defense, while the men took boxing freshman year. Everyone has two gos of unarmed combat in their upperclass years. And to be clear, while probably safer than boxing, self-defense racked up plenty of injuries. I myself ended up with a nasty ankle sprain that sidelined me for a couple months (my significantly larger sparring partner incorrectly executed a move and ended up throwing me on my ankle) and nearly ended my tennis career before it even started. Unarmed combat is no walk in the park either - lots of injuries coming out of that class.

As for why it's still around, i'd say it's one of those entrenched rites of passage that is unlikely to go anywhere. That said, while I definitely see the valuable lessons learned in boxing (how to take a hit, refocus and push through it is a valuable skill set for sure), I'd argue with what we know about the risk of concussions and lasting damage, it's likely not worth it in the end. It is entrenched in tradition at West Point and Navy, and USAFA wasn't far behind though, so getting rid of such a long lasting tradition is just hard.

My guess is that if someone compiled the actual data on concussions and injuries from the class over several years, it would be pretty compelling. But I'm not optimistic - we have known for at least decade, probably two, that football is incredibly dangerous, but it is still a widespread sport that doesn't seem to be going anywhere.
 
Hello-I was wanting to gain some clarification on the boxing class that cadets are now required to take. I’ve seen several posts in various groups about kids getting multiple concussions in this class. Can someone please help me understand why, with all of the head injury research, we are unnecessarily exposing cadets to this risk (which is clearly high in this particular class)? I was told the coach tells them “Good Job” when they injure someone. Seems like a lawsuit waiting to happen. Can someone please explain the rationale for this class? Women used to do unarmed combat which seems infinitely more useful and realistically necessary skill,
I do not know the official reason but there are many pros to this.
  1. Self Defense (you never know when it will be useful)
  2. Confidence
  3. You are joining a war-fighting institution (war is not fair, it pays to be a winner)
  4. Teaches composure, and control of emotion
  5. Forces adaptation under times of adversity
Unless you are going up someone with a mean right hand or a professional boxer, you most likely will not get a terrible concussion, and you will recover. These are just a few of the reasons I could compile of why they might box at the Service Academies. I do not know as well, but I would assume some of these might be on the list.
 
I’m a grad. I took unarmed combat. I should have noted that. It was fierce but not centered around head shots. Boxing has not always been required, especially for women. I guess I’m shocked it’s still around because cadets ARE snd HAVE BEEN getting substantial concussions. Boxing is now required for graduation when it didn’t used to be. You could choose it as an elective.

Self defense can be taught in other classes through other methods, boxing is totally unnecessary for that. Why would we be putting these cadets at unnecessary risk for multiple concussions when they are potential pilots? And we have a massive pilot shortage? And I agree, it’s time to compile data. You can CHOOSE to play football. You can’t choose this class. I’m kind of appalled at the idiocy of it. I’d love to know when the shift of this being required happened.
 
I’m a grad. I took unarmed combat. I should have noted that. It was fierce but not centered around head shots. Boxing has not always been required, especially for women. I guess I’m shocked it’s still around because cadets ARE snd HAVE BEEN getting substantial concussions. Boxing is now required for graduation when it didn’t used to be. You could choose it as an elective.

Self defense can be taught in other classes through other methods, boxing is totally unnecessary for that. Why would we be putting these cadets at unnecessary risk for multiple concussions when they are potential pilots? And we have a massive pilot shortage? And I agree, it’s time to compile data. You can CHOOSE to play football. You can’t choose this class. I’m kind of appalled at the idiocy of it. I’d love to know when the shift of this being required happened.
I'm not an academy grad, nor am I currently at an academy. But refusing to teach something because it has potential danger is counterproductive when you are eventually putting them in situations where death is very possible. It teaches you how to handle those situations. Boxing perhaps is the most useful self defense when it comes to unarmed combat. Jiu Jitsu or wrestling does not help a ton when an opponent has a knife. Exposing someone to this kind of stress teaches them a handful about combat, themselves, and understanding opponent tendencies. The confidence within learning self defense is incredibly valuable, especially when putting people in combat scenarios. Just by opinion. I understand both sides, but I believe the upsides outweigh the downsides.
 
As I stated, we did (and they do) take unarmed combat classes. Those are infinitely more useful than boxing. It addressed the exact scenarios you are suggesting (how to defend against knives or other weapons, how to defend against attacks from various directions, etc.). Cadets experience many dangerous things and injuries happen. I’m well aware. But when head injuries become the “norm” and happen frequently in one particular class, it’s time to reassess. Especially considering head injuries can cause a cadet to lose pilot qualification. There’s no upside to that.
 
I'm not an academy grad, nor am I currently at an academy. But refusing to teach something because it has potential danger is counterproductive when you are eventually putting them in situations where death is very possible. It teaches you how to handle those situations. Boxing perhaps is the most useful self defense when it comes to unarmed combat. Jiu Jitsu or wrestling does not help a ton when an opponent has a knife. Exposing someone to this kind of stress teaches them a handful about combat, themselves, and understanding opponent tendencies. The confidence within learning self defense is incredibly valuable, especially when putting people in combat scenarios. Just by opinion. I understand both sides, but I believe the upsides outweigh the downsides.
As I stated, we did (and they do) take unarmed combat classes. Those are infinitely more useful than boxing. It addressed the exact scenarios you are suggesting (how to defend against knives or other weapons, how to defend against attacks from various directions, etc.). Cadets experience many dangerous things and injuries happen. I’m well aware. But when head injuries become the “norm” and happen frequently in one particular class, it’s time to reassess. Especially considering head injuries can cause a cadet to lose pilot qualification. There’s no upside to that.
 
I am not sure if you are if you are referring to disarming techniques, which happen to be notoriously bad at self defense. Boxing is pretty well known as being the best self defense martial art, which is why I really do not believe that we should stray away from it. I would personally like to see the statistics of cadets losing pilot qualification specifically for boxing. I would presume that academics cause the most people to lose pilot qualification, does that mean we should make it easier? I think straying away from things because they are dangerous and hard is extremely detrimental to an institution whose goal is to produce men and women capable of winning wars.
 
Hello-I was wanting to gain some clarification on the boxing class that cadets are now required to take. I’ve seen several posts in various groups about kids getting multiple concussions in this class. Can someone please help me understand why, with all of the head injury research, we are unnecessarily exposing cadets to this risk (which is clearly high in this particular class)? I was told the coach tells them “Good Job” when they injure someone. Seems like a lawsuit waiting to happen. Can someone please explain the rationale for this class? Women used to do unarmed combat which seems infinitely more useful and realistically necessary skill,
If there are kids getting multiple concussions in the class then something is VERY VERY wrong. I had Boxing both Plebe and 3rd class year at USNA and never saw nor heard of a single person getting a concussion. Part of that was the headgear/gloves and part was the coaches. I went to watch the Brigade Boxing championships all four years while I was there and have probably gone to 10 or 15 since graduation and never even saw a knockout or injury other than a few facial cuts. The only "knockouts" I've ever seen were a couple of Technical Knockouts (TKOs) from cuts in the hundreds of bouts I've seen and they were in the Brigade championships, not boxing class which the coaches MUCH more heavily control/stop the action if there is an issue.
 
I’m a grad. I took unarmed combat. I should have noted that. It was fierce but not centered around head shots. Boxing has not always been required, especially for women. I guess I’m shocked it’s still around because cadets ARE snd HAVE BEEN getting substantial concussions.
Do you have ANY data on this? If the news media found out about it, it would be heavily publicized.
 
I am not sure if you are if you are referring to disarming techniques, which happen to be notoriously bad at self defense. Boxing is pretty well known as being the best self defense martial art, which is why I really do not believe that we should stray away from it. I would personally like to see the statistics of cadets losing pilot qualification specifically for boxing. I would presume that academics cause the most people to lose pilot qualification, does that mean we should make it easier? I think straying away from things because they are dangerous and hard is extremely detrimental to an institution whose goal is to produce men and women capable of winning wars.
PQ is a medical term, it has nothing to do with academics. And I agree, which is what I and another poster stated, it’s time to look at the numbers of concussions caused in THIS CLASS and mission impact those are having. Factually, they are happening. If you are affiliated with the multiple parent forums and fb pages, parents and cadets are voicing concerns and stating that their cadet has been diagnosed with concussion from boxing class. I know that first hand. My question was why are we continuing to require boxing when multiple cadets are getting concussions, and when (and why) did it become required for graduation.
If there are kids getting multiple concussions in the class then something is VERY VERY wrong. I had Boxing both Plebe and 3rd class year at USNA and never saw nor heard of a single person getting a concussion. Part of that was the headgear/gloves and part was the coaches. I went to watch the Brigade Boxing championships all four years while I was there and have probably gone to 10 or 15 since graduation and never even saw a knockout or injury other than a few facial cuts. The only "knockouts" I've ever seen were a couple of Technical Knockouts (TKOs) from cuts in the hundreds of bouts I've seen and they were in the Brigade championships, not boxing class which the coaches MUCH more heavily control/stop the action if there is an issue.
Exactly. Multiple concussions have been reported on parent and cadet forums and I’m wondering why this is happening without being looked in to.
 
My son did it at USNA. He was nervous at first but tried his best and enjoyed it. No reports of concussions. Just some bloody noses.

Rugby and football and even swimming have more injuries and deaths than boxing.
 
DD reports at USAFA there are multiple concussions where she cadets that were under concussion protocol due to the boxing class. Speaking with the athletic trainer for her sport, she also stated she had multiple cadets receive concussions in the boxing class. It is a required class at USAFA. DD had a medical issue where she was not cleared for boxing, in fact during dealing with her medical issue we discovered the medical standards were more stringent at the academy than for active military, one reason being able to participate in the boxing class.

In addition, we have a very good friend that is a current professor at USNA who also reports that many students miss class due to concussions caused from boxing class at USNA. She is working to try and make it not a mandatory class at USNA.
 
DD reports at USAFA there are multiple concussions where she cadets that were under concussion protocol due to the boxing class. Speaking with the athletic trainer for her sport, she also stated she had multiple cadets receive concussions in the boxing class. It is a required class at USAFA. DD had a medical issue where she was not cleared for boxing, in fact during dealing with her medical issue we discovered the medical standards were more stringent at the academy than for active military, one reason being able to participate in the boxing class.

In addition, we have a very good friend that is a current professor at USNA who also reports that many students miss class due to concussions caused from boxing class at USNA. She is working to try and make it not a mandatory class at USNA.
Yes, it’s a problem, and has been a problem for awhile. It’s infuriating to know it continues without anything being done.
 
I am not sure if you are if you are referring to disarming techniques, which happen to be notoriously bad at self defense. Boxing is pretty well known as being the best self defense martial art, which is why I really do not believe that we should stray away from it. I would personally like to see the statistics of cadets losing pilot qualification specifically for boxing. I would presume that academics cause the most people to lose pilot qualification, does that mean we should make it easier? I think straying away from things because they are dangerous and hard is extremely detrimental to an institution whose goal is to produce men and women capable of winning wars.
Currently taking boxing class. Most people say they enjoy it after the 8 lessons. They told us concussions happen but nobody has lost pilot qual because of something that happened in boxing class, and that they aim to keep it that way.
 
Currently taking boxing class. Most people say they enjoy it after the 8 lessons. They told us concussions happen but nobody has lost pilot qual because of something that happened in boxing class, and that they aim to keep it that way.
3 concussions = loss of PQ. Someone from medical can correct me if I’m wrong. We are a large pilot family and that has been the case. If you enter that class and already have a previous concussion reported from high school sports, that’s 2 more concussions and you’re done. The fact that they caveat the class with “there will be concussions” is all the red flags. Concussions are not a minor thing, they are very serious snd have long term effects, whether or not you lose PQ.
I’m glad you are enjoying it, many cadets do not.
 
I’m glad you are enjoying it, many cadets do not.
To be fair, I think cadets don't like it because it's another thing to get done and not because of the concussions. They teach you how to protect yourself from getting a concussion, but it does seem like an awful many concussions, as you said.
 
3 concussions = loss of PQ. Someone from medical can correct me if I’m wrong. We are a large pilot family and that has been the case. If you enter that class and already have a previous concussion reported from high school sports, that’s 2 more concussions and you’re done. The fact that they caveat the class with “there will be concussions” is all the red flags. Concussions are not a minor thing, they are very serious snd have long term effects, whether or not you lose PQ.
I’m glad you are enjoying it, many cadets do not.
Possibly because someone has had previous concussions, not associated with the SA, all in the SA should not participate in boxing , based on a total lack of any data or Dx numbers but lots of 2nd or 3rd hand observations.

one observation being that pilot slots are in jeopardy from boxing and another observation that no pilot slots have ever been lost due to boxing. This is where actual data and numbers would be helpful.

One solution, if you really think multiple concussions at a SA are a significant problem , would be to stop admitting those who had a previous concussion while in HS. If those previously injured are putting the combat training of all at risk why admit them in the first place?

I have no idea what you would suggest as far as the football team. Or soccer where a hit on an unprotected head is to be expected
 
I’d also be curious as to those who are in observation for a concussion after boxing class and those who have been Dx by a doctor as having a concussion.
 
DD's class (2020) was one of the first for which boxing was required.
She received her first bloody nose of her life during it, but no concussion. :(
She also took the unarmed combat class; said the only thing she learned from it was that if she was ever in a fight, she would lose. o_O
 
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