Upon graduation from Kings Point

I have applied to USMMA because it's another possible avenue to the Naval Officer career I want to pursue. That said, despite my research about the academy and everything done there and after, I only have a general overview of what my choices would be upon graduation. I know it's called the "merchant marine," but I really want to be an active duty line officer in the Navy, is this path possible after graduation from Kings Point?

Upon graduation you may choose to go on active duty in ANY branch of the U.S. Military that you desire. You may also choose to commission as an officer with NOAA. If your wish is to become a surface warfare officer in the Navy KP would certainly be worth a look. You would graduate with a Coast Guard license as a third mate for vessels of unlimited tonnage operating in any ocean. No other service academy confers upon it's graduates an unlimited Coast Guard license (not even the Coast Guard Academy!) In short, you would graduate on Monday and be fully licensed to take a ship out to sea on Tuesday.
For more info check this out and good luck no matter what you decide to do.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01fb5xQBqV4

KPMarineopsdad said:

Upon graduation you may choose to go on active duty in ANY branch of the U.S. Military that you desire. You may also choose to commission as an officer with NOAA. If your wish is to become a surface warfare officer in the Navy KP would certainly be worth a look. You would graduate with a Coast Guard license as a third mate for vessels of unlimited tonnage operating in any ocean. No other service academy confers upon it's graduates an unlimited Coast Guard license (not even the Coast Guard Academy!) In short, you would graduate on Monday and be fully licensed to take a ship out to sea on Tuesday.
For more info check this out and good luck no matter what you decide to do.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01fb5xQBqV4

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Yeah I know for sure that Navy is the way I want to go, and surface warfare is a definite possibility. That is really cool about the Coast Guard license. You learn something new every day. ...and thanks for that video, answered all of my questions =D

There is also this video of Capt Johnson speaking at an academy forum hosted by Sen. Johnny Isakson. The audio quality is not great but anyone who has met him will tell you that this is "vintage" Capt Johnson. Capt Johnson is a retired Army infantry Colonel and a West Point graduate who is now serving as Kings Points admissions director. Turn up the volume and prepare to be entertained.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YctgXlVY0X4

usnahopeful2014 said:

Yeah I know for sure that Navy is the way I want to go, and surface warfare is a definite possibility. That is really cool about the Coast Guard license. You learn something new every day. ...and thanks for that video, answered all of my questions =D

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with that,
keep your mind and eyes open. i wanted to go Active Duty Navy since i was 11 years old. lo and behold, on June 21st i'll be swearing in as a 2LT in the US Air Force. this place has so many possibilities that you won't see at the other academies that it is mind boggling. also, if you want to be on a ship (i.e. the Navy), you can't beat the shipboard knowledge you'd gain here. unlike USNA grads, we spend lots of time on ships BEFORE we graduate, so we know how things are done and are quite competent mariners.
also, we're open for restricted-line billets as well. something to keep in mind... more billet options = more likely to get the billet you want.
also, there's less competition for active duty billets here. it's not a shoo-in, but like at the USNA, i'd venture to say that for every 1 pilot slot they have, there are at least 5-6 people applying for that slot. from here, there are typically no more than 2 people competing for a single slot. and typically everyone that applies can get something they enjoy.

I would guess by the OP's screen name, as well as the content of the message, that USNA is still the first choice? My question for him (or her) is, if becoming a Naval Officer is your sole goal, have you looked at NROTC as well? Also, if you are considering USMMA, do you have an interest in commercial shipping, and are you at least open to the possibility of serving the maritime interests of the nation in the merchant marine? While I'm aware that you do not have to sail as a mariner upon graduation, I would think it would be a very miserable four years if you really didn't have any interest in commercial shipping.

I know this horse has been beaten to death; however, I think anyone applying to USMMA, while certainly mindful of all that is available after graduation, should have some interest in the maritime industry given the requirements of the sea year and the limited focus in study. This is coming from an outside observer, so take it for what it's worth. Personally, I think USMMA is great (and if I was younger, maybe would have considered it, as I think spending my early 20s out at sea would have been a blast). Good Luck

good point Sprog,
however, when i reported to indoc in July of 2006, i had no interest in commercial shipping. a lot of kids don't when they show up. however, over the last 4 years i have developed a love for going to sea that i don't think i could justly convey on here.
pushing out to sea can change your mind on a lot of things. it's a great option no matter how you look at it and this school will test your personal limits in every fashion at some point or another. it makes you tough and confident. even though i'm far from the smartest engineer in my class (probably closer to the bottom of that list actually), there aren't many engineering problems that you could throw at me that i couldn't figure out now. it might not be the BEST solution, but i can make it work. that skill is invaluable in any industry!
do what you feel is best, but know that KP is NOT a second rate education.

I'll try and answer both your posts as best I can. I am totally open to and aware of the possibility that if I went to KP I may change the branch I want to serve in. Yes the Naval Academy is my first choice, but I have just as much respect for KP and I would go there in a heartbeat. I have also applied for an NROTC scholarship (awaiting decision). As for the interest in the maritime industry, my honest answer is I have not idea. Honestly I'm an 18 year old who doesn't know too much about it, but I would be excited to try it . It may be important to my individual case to point out that I am not planning on being an engineering/math/hard sciences major. Political science, government, criminal justice, international relations, and national security have always been my personal interests. So I guess I would have to look at what best fits my interest no matter which of the three options I end up doing. I know most about what I could do at USNA and through NROTC, but as stated, I really don't know about what USMMA has to offer. From what you are telling me though, it sounds like the opportunities there really do make it "America's best kept secret."

I'll let someone who has a closer relationship with USMMA address the specifics of the academic program. Generally, all of the SAs require a core curriculum that is heavy in math, science, and engineering, and that is regardless of what your major is. That said, it is my understanding that you cannot major in political science (or any of the other humanities/social sciences that you mentioned) at USMMA, with their academic majors being focused in maritime fields. Again, I'd ask that a current midshipman or alumnus help out with the specifics here.

At USNA, you can major in one of the humanities, but, it is a BS degree (as are all of their degrees) due to the required core classes of sciences/engineering/math that everyone takes. NROTC scholarship midshipmen (and I knew several at VMI, where I went to school) have to take Calculus and Physics, regardless of major. I knew several guys at VMI who were College Program with NROTC, and they did not have (at that time) any restrictions on what they majored in, and did not have required classes. Of course, NROTC college program is on your own dime, so the Navy is not paying for your education.

Is2day4him said:

but know that KP is NOT a second rate education.

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I'm not sure if you meant that for me or not, or if it was just a general feeling. I certainly wasn't implying that USMMA is second rate. Far from it, it is a fine institution that I hold in the highest regard.

KP only has 2 areas of study, marine transportation (deck officers) and marine engineering (engineering officers). Each area offers three degree programs for a total of six different degrees. If you have a strong preference for liberal arts you may not be happy at KP. This is only my opinion but, if your desire is to become a Navy officer your first and best choice is the Naval Academy. That said, every year Annapolis is forced to turn away many remarkable young people. In many cases it is only a "numbers game." If a candidate had only lived in a different congressional district he or she might have received an appontment. If an appointment to the Naval Academy does not come your way KP might be an acceptable "plan B" PROVIDED that you understand that this is a school with a very narrow focus centered on maritime related subjects.

usnahopeful2014 said:

I'll try and answer both your posts as best I can. I am totally open to and aware of the possibility that if I went to KP I may change the branch I want to serve in. Yes the Naval Academy is my first choice, but I have just as much respect for KP and I would go there in a heartbeat. I have also applied for an NROTC scholarship (awaiting decision). As for the interest in the maritime industry, my honest answer is I have not idea. Honestly I'm an 18 year old who doesn't know too much about it, but I would be excited to try it . It may be important to my individual case to point out that I am not planning on being an engineering/math/hard sciences major. Political science, government, criminal justice, international relations, and national security have always been my personal interests. So I guess I would have to look at what best fits my interest no matter which of the three options I end up doing. I know most about what I could do at USNA and through NROTC, but as stated, I really don't know about what USMMA has to offer. From what you are telling me though, it sounds like the opportunities there really do make it "America's best kept secret."

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If you want to be a line officer in the Navy you will be doing lots of math and engineering- It's required. The Naval Academy has become much more of a Liberal Arts school- Kings Point has not. If your interest is in the hands-on, play with the toys part of the Navy, then Kings Point is the place. We have put out a few of the top junior officer ship-handlers in the last few years in the SWO program. For our grads going active duty, especially SWO, the skills that they have that put them ahead is that at KP they are trained to operate a giant ship on thier own, able to do all the jobs at once to navigate a ship or to manage the loading or discharge its cargo. When they get on the bridge of a Navy ship with 20 people to help them out......no problem. As for a liberal arts major- as the joke goes (with no offense meant to liberal arts grads) practice these simple words "Would you like fries with that?"

KPMarineopsdad said:

There is also this video of Capt Johnson speaking at an academy forum hosted by Sen. Johnny Isakson. The audio quality is not great but anyone who has met him will tell you that this is "vintage" Capt Johnson. Capt Johnson is a retired Army infantry Colonel and a West Point graduate who is now serving as Kings Points admissions director. Turn up the volume and prepare to be entertained.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YctgXlVY0X4

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I was there when he gave the speech. Great guy!

deepsea said:

As for a liberal arts major- as the joke goes (with no offense meant to liberal arts grads) practice these simple words "Would you like fries with that?"

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Ok, this is a little disingenuous. Engineers and scientists are vital to our nation in the military and the civilian sectors, I won't disagree. However, classically-educatated liberal artists have equal worth to society. I know you meant the post as tounge-in-cheek, but it is hard not to take offense at what is implied in the message.

Using myself as an example, I graduated with a BA in International Studies (with a minor in English) from VMI. I took a commission in the Air Force, and was a Missile Launch Officer for the Minuteman III ICBM for 4 years (even had time as an instructor). My liberal arts background did not prevent me from being successful in my duties. The Minuteman III is a pretty sophisticated piece of technology. Did my peers with engineering degrees have a leg up, then? Maybe a little bit; however, engineers were no more or less successful as missileers than those with liberal arts degrees. We had good and bad missileers with all sorts of undergraduate backgrounds.

The OP wants to be a Naval Officer and has interests in the humanities. While the USMMA experience certainly could not hurt him, and it would give him some benefit if he is tracked as a SWO, it is not the only way to be successful in that career field. Indeed, if the Navy felt that their SWOs needed the maritime experience garnered at USMMA, then there would be a sea year/maritime major/license requirement for all USNA and NROTC/OCS midshipmen tracked into the SWO program. This is not the case, because the Navy can train its officers to be successful SWOs once they are commissioned.

This is not a slam on USMMA. Believe me, I am a big supporter of the school, and think that it is a great choice for a student who has an interest in commercial shipping, and wants to commit to studying maritime subjects. I'm a Kings Point fan, OK. It's a great, first rate school. For someone, though, who ultimately wants to be a Naval Officer and has an interest in the humanities, USMMA seems like it wouldn't be as good of a match.

Lastly, and while this is slightly off-topic from the OP's original question, I'll say this: I was a successful Air Force officer, was admitted to law school, and now am an attorney for the Federal Government. I did all of this with a liberal arts degree, and not once in my professional career have I ever uttered "would you like fries with that"?

It takes all kinds to make up the military and civilian workforce. The OP should evaluate what interests him, and should determine how he can reach his goal of becoming an Ensign in the Navy while pursuing what is best for him. If that is USMMA, then great. If it is USNA, great. If it is NROTC at Duke with a major in criminal justice, also great.

sprog said:

Lastly, and while this is slightly off-topic from the OP's original question, I'll say this: I was a successful Air Force officer, was admitted to law school, and now am an attorney for the Federal Government. I did all of this with a liberal arts degree, and not once in my professional career have I ever uttered "would you like fries with that"?

It takes all kinds to make up the military and civilian workforce. The OP should evaluate what interests him, and should determine how he can reach his goal of becoming an Ensign in the Navy while pursuing what is best for him. If that is USMMA, then great. If it is USNA, great. If it is NROTC at Duke with a major in criminal justice, also great.

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My comment was meant as a joke- and I'm sure as a VMI grad you (and certainly any Naval Academy Liberal arts major) got much more engineering, math and science than your average liberal arts education. I'm a deckie so I've had to hear similiar barbs from engineers my entire career.

Ultimately I don't intend to make a career out of the Navy. For me it is a stepping stone. I've always wanted to work for the FBI as an agent or for the Secret Service. My girlfriends father is an FBI agent (and USNA grad) so naturally he is my source of info usually. He was a pilot plying P3s and is now an agent, the two don't really go together, but that isn't what those institutions are looking for. They want successful people who have life/job experience. I won't know for sure until I get to one of these academies what I'll be majoring in/doing after...but basically the bureau might see me as standing out if I were a KP grad who went into the shipping industry, then served as a line officer in the SWO program. There is a lot of experience there that in my mind, is what I need for my future career.

P.S. "would you like any fries with that," humanities majors are just as intelligent as engineers. People with masters in CJ don't work at McDonalds

usnahopeful2014 said:

Ultimately I don't intend to make a career out of the Navy. For me it is a stepping stone. I've always wanted to work for the FBI as an agent or for the Secret Service. My girlfriends father is an FBI agent (and USNA grad) so naturally he is my source of info usually. He was a pilot plying P3s and is now an agent, the two don't really go together, but that isn't what those institutions are looking for. They want successful people who have life/job experience. I won't know for sure until I get to one of these academies what I'll be majoring in/doing after...but basically the bureau might see me as standing out if I were a KP grad who went into the shipping industry, then served as a line officer in the SWO program. There is a lot of experience there that in my mind, is what I need for my future career.

P.S. "would you like any fries with that," humanities majors are just as intelligent as engineers. People with masters in CJ don't work at McDonalds

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For a career in law enforcement / FBI, I'd recommend USCGA or KP followed by active duty Coast Guard as they are a law enforcement organization. One benefit of KP for that type of future career is that as a great part of sea year you get to deal with people from all backgrounds (to put it nicely.) This experience both abroad and at home working with shipyard workers, longshoremen, etc., gives you a broad range of skills that you will not get anywhere else that could be helpful down the road.

That's a good thought since any law enforcement experience would be great for my future. That said, I've been told by several people I know or have talked to from the FBI that they honestly don't look for law enforcement (granted there are MANY former cops there), they look for, as I was told specifically, "people who can get a job and move up the ladder." I have not applied to the USCGA , but I think KP or Annapolis will be just fine for me

I guess this all comes down to one thing I always been told: do something you love doing and find someone who will pay you for it. Now, I could become an engineer if I wanted to (physics and calculus are NOT my strongest subjects, but I do OK), but I think I would be miserable. So the question becomes, do I do what the Navy is looking for in order to have a better chance of gaining that first rate education, or do I stick to what I want to do and try and go from there?...hmmm

Do what interests you. Being miserable is, quite obviously, no fun. It's as much about the journey as the destination. Don't make yourself unhappy needlessly because you think, possibly, that there will be a payoff in the distant future. There are many roads into federal law enforcement. I have classmates in the Secret Service, and all had different majors and varying levels of military experience. Again, do what you enjoy and be the best at it.

usnahopeful2014 said:

I guess this all comes down to one thing I always been told: do something you love doing and find someone who will pay you for it.

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You nailed it there. That was my program which took me to KP, then to 42 countries aboard cargo ships, racing yachts, and sail training vessels- almost every day is fun.

Here's a partial list of KP grads in the FBI- there are alot more....

Class of 1994
Organization Name: US Government - Department of Justice, FBI
Position: SPECIAL AGENT
Business Address 1: 26 Federal Plaza
Business City: New York
Business State: New York

Class of 1991
Profession: Engineer & Architect
Organization Name: FBI
Position: Mechanical Engr
Business City: Quantico
Business State: Virginia

Class of 1993
Organization Name: Federal Bureau of Investigation
Position: Special Agent
Business Address 1: 300 Ala Moana Blvd. Room 4-320
Business Address 2: Kalanianaole Federal Building
Business City: Honolulu, HI
Business State: Hawaii

Class of 1983
Organization Name: U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation
Position: Special Agent
Business Address 1: 1250 Poydras Street
Business City: New Orleans

Class of 1990
Organization Name: U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation
Position: Special Agent
Business Address 1: FBI Building
Business Address 2: Bldg. 75, Room 241
Business City: Jamaica
Business State: New York

Class of 1983
Organization Name: U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation
Position: Special Agent
Business Address 1: 11000 Wilshire Boulevard
Business Address 2: #1700
Business City: Los Angeles
Business State: California

Class of 1979
Organization Name: U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation
Position: Special Agent
Business City: San Francisco
Business State: California

Class of 1947
Organization Name: U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation
Position: (RET)Special Agent
Business Country: United States

Class of 1984
Organization Name: U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation
Position: Special Agent
Business Address 1: 1240 East 9th Street
Business City: Cleveland
Business State: Ohio