Tesla or EV auto anyone?

Ihavenoidea said:
Again... I am all for someone driving what they want. You want a EV, then get a EV. You want a huge SUV then go for it. I just don't love to hear from EV people that everyone should drive a EV because they are so much cheaper and better. That is just not really true. EV's have some great benefits. Quiet, technology, air pollution levels, performance, and I think they look cool. Saving money is just not one of them.
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Several of those articles seem focused on the warranty length, which is certainly a valid concern, versus life expectancy. But a 100k warranty length is different from service length. Powertrains in ICE cars frequently have 100-120k warranties, yet we know many people with ICE cars well past that. I'd say the same applies to EVs.

I know some EV people act like they're going to save you a million dollars, solve world peace, and so much more. They're ideological and annoy me just like any other ideologically driven person. I think the figures for the Model 3 and Camry you bring up are useful though. A $10k difference. That's what a person needs to know if just looking at possible savings. Figure in their price per KWH, gas costs in their area, etc. Of course expected length of car ownership. It's fairly simple math in the end.

Yet, even if the math works out where it's more expensive for the EV, I'd still pay it because I'm a tech nerd that enjoys "push pedal, go fast" at times. Plus, the car can make farts sounds which my little boys love. :p
 
Ihavenoidea said:
Time and temps are the biggest killers to any battery, and it is difficult to test time without actually taking the time to do it. The first Tesla's did not come out until 2012, so we haven't been 20 years yet.
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This is certainly true. We have seen EVs with solid range past 200k miles, but those were obviously high-mileage drivers.
 
time2 said:
Lack of a national charging standard and established infrastructure is a BIG deal when driving out of town/on vacation/etc. with an EV. Personally, I think more effort should have been put into that upfront if you truly wanted to make these more viable for everyone.
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This is why I'm happy to see the OEMs adopt the NACS standard for 2025 and onward.
 
My wife is on the board of an electrical utility in the upper midwest. The issue of installing quick charge systems, such as Tesla's is a HUGE issue. A system often requires the installation of a new substation. They have been examining installations along interstates and other freeway/highways systems. Current rate structures do not provide funding for these investments and public utilities commissions are not allowing for rate increases in new rate cases before PUCs. The cost of copper is making upgrades very challenging to utilities within their current rate structures. Until the cost of charging systems is allowed by regulators and passed on to the rate payers (that's you and me), we're going to have EVs pretty much limited to daily use.

In the upper Midwest, Plains, and intermountain west, an EV makes no sense unless it is for urban commuting. As your only car - not a good idea anytime soon. And in my part of the world, it's below freezing for 6 months of the year and below zero for days at a time. EVs in cold weather get very poor travel distance per charge and the EV system has to be used for heating. This is a big, wide-open country. Yes, Norway has found ways of using EVs in the winter but Norway is typically much warmer than, say, North Dakota, Minnesota, Montana, etc.
 
We own two conventional but my BMW is getting a little long in the tooth and I'm not far from replacing it.
At this time, the most likely replacement is a BWM plug-in hybrid. It uses the same gas engine as its fully-gas
counterpart PLUS an electric motor that is additive when necessary so the overall horsepower available is
greater. That said, I rarely punch my current car hard enough to need the twin turbos as it is so I'd probably
use the electric power for regular driving and that means my ride to work would be all electric. At that point, if
I'm lucky enough to snag a charger spot in our garages, my ride home will be FREE (no charge for the chargers
at work) and if I don't get a spot then part of my ride home will be gas the same as it is now. One drawback is that
the actual gas tank is a few gallons smaller than the "regular" model tank.

Acquisition Cost is not much more than the all-gas model. I'd have already jumped but currently holding off due
to some family responsibilities.
 
time2 said:
There are already some parts of the country where we use more electricity on the hottest days then we can produce, so where all of the added electricity to charge EV's will come from is an open question.
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Respectfully, this is a false narrative. At least for the 90% of folks who charge at home. You plug in and it charges in middle of night when rates are cheapest...because demand is very low. Industrial plants have done this forever...higher rates 2-8PM during summers traded off for very low rates in middle of night (ours is 1.8 cents/kWh for example). This is because on an industrial scale electricity has to be used...it can't really be stored. Bringing on additional gen capacity takes a bit of time so when everyone gets home from work on a hot day and cranks AC the capacity has to be increased ahead of time. If you charged your vehicle at this time of day then above would be a concern...but it really isn't done that way.

I'll bow out as I see the same slanted arguments on here that seem to be tied to if you're left vs. right on the political spectrum. The engineer in me gets driven completely crazy with these conversations as no one wants to take time to understand the science/facts. It is what it is I guess....
 
Well maybe false narrative to you but reality to me. I live/work in the midwest at a large company and on the hottest days of the year for the past several years, the local utility will ask all of the big industrial users to take steps to voluntarily reduce our electrical usage to help ease the overall demand. Clearly they can't produce enough to meet the peak demand. This was before any big push for EV's which obviously need electricity to recharge.
 
Did not read all posts so no idea if this is already covered:
1. Weather can impact range with some EVs My boss is in a lemon law lawsuit w/ Mercedes because his range is 30-40% of advertised range, during the winter in the NE US. Dealer had car for more than 50 days and slightly improved issue only. Avoid Mercedes EVs.
2. Confirm battery warranty for original owner vs second owner if you plan to say transfer the car to one of your kids, eventually.
3. Confirm extended warranty options and consider 'em. Nightmare stories online of Tesla's needing work / new battery pack and costs are staggering.
4. Confirm if you have a charging option at work, or near work/ on your ride home, and what that costs. Do you have a job where you can go down and move it after 3 hours, so the other drivers can also charge? Confirm what charging from a nationwide network is included in the lease or purchase.

To me, an EV is great if you have a local job say 5 miles from home, can do most shopping online or a local grocery store, and live an an area where at off-peak times you can charge without it costing a ridiculous rate. ANd, you can drive it for a few days without worry of "running out". Some parts of the country have very few cheap home charging options. It's also great if you're say married with both a hybrid or full gas car that can take the non EV and drive 400 miles each way, and just need 5 minutes to fill up the tank in the middle.

Pro - battery pack degradation or issue aside, less parts to replace in an EV engine.

Buddy's Volvo EV is really nice but they can't drive it up to their in-laws 100 miles away for a few hours since charging would take too long there on a regular outlet, and the limited charging network stations up there are often full.

Con: most EV owners I know like it, but won't buy another one when it's time to buy a new car. Not the cost savings they thought would be coming vs high gas prices.

Check your state and federal incentives to confirm what state has the best options. Also, check a site called "slick deals.net (no spaces) for some EV/ hybrid car leasing specials in CA and other states - sometimes they post some great deals (need to sort through some bad deals to find 'em.
Cross country, technically could be done, just like you can ride a vespa from NC to Maine - yes, could, but not convenient or easy. A lot of time waiting for it to recharge, or waiting for available spot to charge it in, which on peak highways the wait can be substantial - research those delays before getting into this.

Hope any of that helps.
 
justdoit19 said:
Anyone own one? As a primary car? One of mine is wanting to purchase a Tesla. I have no frame of reference. Sure, it sound great to ‘not buy gas’. But how does it all work, practically, for day to day ops? Is recharging easy and convenient? How restrictive will this be (he will have to look for an apartment that has charging ports? Is that a pain? What about a cross country trip…do you have to plan it differently to account for charging?).

Honestly, to me, it makes sense as a 2nd car. I’m not seeing the benefits…only challenges. But, again, no experience in my family or circle of friends.
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I drive a Tesla and my DH drives a gas guzzling big truck. If you get a Tesla you need to first understand the charging station infrastructure in your city. Also, look at the charging impact to your power bill. If the increase in your power bill is higher than the monthly price of gas for a regular vehicle, then it’s not worth it to buy. There’s much more to think about after that, but it’s a start.
 
dddad said:
When I last did the math, it didn't sensibly, from a value perspective, allow for me to purchase of an EV. Perhaps there will come a day when it will make better economic sense. And, hopefully, the range of these vehicles and charging time will make sense for our relatively long drives by then. As of now, I'm steering clear. The fact that we can pump gas into a car/truck in just a few minutes is not something I'm quite willing to give up. Maybe someone on this forum can explain how they manage this issue on a 400-800 mile trip??
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Super chargers are pretty fast. Not a few minutes, but enough for a Power Nap of 15 minutes. Works for me
 
USNA_STEM_Prof said:
Several of those articles seem focused on the warranty length, which is certainly a valid concern, versus life expectancy. But a 100k warranty length is different from service length. Powertrains in ICE cars frequently have 100-120k warranties, yet we know many people with ICE cars well past that. I'd say the same applies to EVs.

I know some EV people act like they're going to save you a million dollars, solve world peace, and so much more. They're ideological and annoy me just like any other ideologically driven person. I think the figures for the Model 3 and Camry you bring up are useful though. A $10k difference. That's what a person needs to know if just looking at possible savings. Figure in their price per KWH, gas costs in their area, etc. Of course expected length of car ownership. It's fairly simple math in the end.

Yet, even if the math works out where it's more expensive for the EV, I'd still pay it because I'm a tech nerd that enjoys "push pedal, go fast" at times. Plus, the car can make farts sounds which my little boys love. :p
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The earthly hippies are wrong. The battery dump after it dies is a worst impact than anything else. At the end of the day, I drive mine because it’s fast, fun and S3XY. The last piece is actually a Tesla acronym for the different models they have.
 
Shiny Navy said:
The earthly hippies are wrong. The battery dump after it dies is a worst impact than anything else. At the end of the day, I drive mine because it’s fast, fun and S3XY. The last piece is actually a Tesla acronym for the different models they have.
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Battery recycling / reuse is certainly a challenge. I just view “battery dump” as an engineering problem that needs to be solved.

To be it’s similar to the FUD around nuclear power. Nuclear waste is a problem, but I can wrap my mind around “here’s nuclear waste I need to figure out” versus coal plant particulate spewed into the air. I view the battery issue similarly is all. I recognize this is a simplification, but I think it encircles the general truth.
 
Its going to be situational. I dont use electricity so this is mostly based on my observation. I live in Los Angeles and work around 7.5 miles from my office. My building has multiple charging stations. My supermarket has charging station. Even the large shopping mall i go to has one. So for those in the LA area, its easy to charge up your car especially if you put one in your house. Having said that, i would be concerned if i had to travel to Las Vegas which is 250 miles away. Oh sure, there are charging stations along the way including a Telsa charging station. My point is that it depends on where you live, how far you normally travel and how often do you like to travel outside of your city. That is going to determine how practicable they would be for you. It would seem to me that on practical sense, having a car that has both electric and gas would be the way to go.
 
time2 said:
Well maybe false narrative to you but reality to me. I live/work in the midwest at a large company and on the hottest days of the year for the past several years, the local utility will ask all of the big industrial users to take steps to voluntarily reduce our electrical usage to help ease the overall demand. Clearly they can't produce enough to meet the peak demand. This was before any big push for EV's which obviously need electricity to recharge.
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They ask to reduce at peak times...not at 3 AM. Just not how it works. You're welcome to research it more, but that's how our grid is designed and balanced.
 
justdoit19 said:
Anyone own one? As a primary car?
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I can see the value in a secondary, round town car, but not as a primary car. 99% of my work is to /from work, Less than 18 miles per day. However, if I want to travel, I would never put up with having to hunt for a charger and then waiting patiently to charge up. When I travel, my average stop is less than 5 minute gas and go.l
Georgia Hokie said:
has a 290 mile range so that's never an issue.
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That range decreases dramatically when the OAT is -20 degrees F. One of my law partners has one, and can't make a round trip to our state capitol and back in the winter.

What are the government subsidies for E-cars these days ? Will the e-car be as attractive when subsidies and incentives go away ?
 
I drive a Tesla model Y and DH drives a midsize SUV. We have short commute for work so it works nicely for that. I only need to charge once every couple of weeks. I can do a round-trip a couple of hours plus away without needing to charge. We installed charger at home using the 220 VAC line in our garage. Being in a warmer state, haven’t had issues with cold temperatures for battery. And I have no intentions of moving to a colder state. 😏 We have taken it on long trip three states away. Ideally, we find hotels with charging along the way. But as we got further away from the main highway it sometimes got a little dicey. I still enjoy driving the car very much. Love the zippy pick up and speed! My biggest issue was the time I ended up with a flat tire, there is no spare and you MUST pull over when you get a warning otherwise you will shred tire with no chance to patch and risk major damage.
 
I have a 2021 Model 3 Long Range with 60,000 miles. I drive between 2200-3000 miles a month for work. I have a L2 charger at the house. I weekly have 2 commutes which are 225 miles RT. I’ve only used a super charger a few times. I purchased it to turn my company’s mileage reimbursement program in to a profit center and not a maybe break even program. I also have a 2021 LX570 which I traded a 2020 T4R Pro (98,000 miles) for. As you can see I don’t care about how much gas I use

If a persons commute is a reasonable distance, there is almost no reason not to drive an EV except personal preference. My LX uses over $200 in gas a week (work and personal). My MONTHLY electric cost is $75-$80 at home with similar usage

If one drives reasonable, you can the same wear out of a set of tires as with any other vehicle. I replaced my OEM that came on it at 58,000 miles. I did replace with higher performance Michelin Pilot Sports AS. There was a decrease in efficiency. Everything and anything on an EV can reduce range. It does on an ICE vehicle also, but people choose to ignore this, just fill up again. Almost no one mathematically figures out what the real mpg they have any longer with a dash display showing an approximate in about ever ICE vehicle now (often inaccurate)

If I lived in town and never drove very far, I absolutely could use one as a primary driver. My lifestyle needing to tow boats, riding dirt mountain roads, need for “truck” type material hauling dictates I have another vehicle

If you want to have some good laughs, join some of the Tesla FB groups. I’ve left (or got kicked out) of many because they will show you just how clueless and idiotic Americans are with cars. RTFM would answer 98% of the questions, I’ve seen people believe and ask if they needed to use the “special” air at a Service Center because it’s a Tesla.

As far as fires… hybrid, ICE, EV in that order of vehicle fires. Does it happen. Absolutely, stats show 25/100,000 for an EV. Ever notice it’s mostly only Tesla that gets all the bad EV press? Look deep and the articles/authors have connections to the ICE industry mainly.

I’m no fanboy, I can see an EVs spot in the transportation realm. I will probably always have a version. They just fun to drive. Especially when you drag race someone in a hellcat, beat them, see the look of astonishment and disbelief as you just smile, wave and drive away, it’s an ego boost
 
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