nomination question

Many moons ago, there was this popular game called "you know Jack".
Who knows? I'm not going to say that I'm going to be the first to set foot on mars or find a cure for cancer but one thing I've ascertained is that the future is bright if one puts in the effort and time to reach a goal. It's understandable that the 1st Class Cadet took offense and so did you. It wasn't meant to be. It shows the camaraderie among fellow coasties which is admirable.
I have recently taken an extensive tour of one of your sectors at a major port. I was very impressed with the way the liaison explained every facet of the USCG's mission as best as he/she can. I've learned that only the enlisted get to do the fun stuff like: jump off helicopters and rescue boaters in peril or get in a zodiac despite foul weather/choppy waters. I also plan to go to New England and visit the campus someday. Maybe dispel some of the myths perpetuated by watching "the Guardian". You are partially right in saying that I'm window shopping but it would be a stretch to say you know who I am or quickly judge solely on past posts but thanks, I plan to be a BFD someday.
 
Maybe dispel some of the myths perpetuated by watching "the Guardian". You are partially right in saying that I'm window shopping but it would be a stretch to say you know who I am or quickly judge solely on past posts but thanks, I plan to be a BFD someday.

Haha, most cuttermen will be the first to dispel the Guardian myths...


And maybe one day you will be a BFD, good.
 
So I figured I'd venture into this fray so LITS and his bretheren can skewer me as much as we skewer him on the USMMA forum.

I really don't have any thoughts to add or strong opinions as to whether or not Congressional Nominations as a requirement for entry or the specific processes are good or bad. As I'm pretty new here and I agree understanding where you get your perspective from is important, I'm a 1982 USMMA grad; my son is a USMMA 2012 grad, and I've been an active USMMA alum and Admissions Field Rep for the majority of the thrity years since I graduated.

I think the simpliest most straight forward anser to the original "why" question is an eqally vauge "because it's the law" - actuall "laws" plural as each process has slightly different language in the US Code for USMA, USNA, and USAFA. For USMMA it's the languague in 46 CFR 310 (specifically 46 CFR 310.53).

I would like to add a couple of points to the discussion in response to some of the posts that I think may add a little value to this discussion - not on the why but on the effects that the nomination process has on entering classes, etc that are likely relevant here to some of the posters.

First as LITS" noted (my paraphrase sorry if it's not exact):

"That for places with thousands in a class what about the tine (but not the smallest) USMMA?"

I leave describing how USMA, USAFA, and/or USNA nominations work to experts or at least people more directly familiar with those inistitutions than I. In the case of Kings Point, since USMMA does NOT have at least one spot in each class for each of the 535 nominating authoities, the CFR allocates a number of spots for each state. Each MOC from that state can nominate up to ten candidates for an entering class. Those individuals compete against that subset of candidates with complete application files for that state's spots in the class first. If they are not selected they are then placed into the National Pool and any unused spots are competed for on a National Basis. So for example, let's take my current home state of Virginia. Per the CFR, Virginia has 5 allocated spots in the entering class. VA also has 11 Congerssional Disricts and like every other State two US Senators, so teoretically there could be as many as 130 people competing for those 5 allocated spots at USMMA in the current incoming Class.

In fact given that in recent years VA usually far exceeds the number of residents offered appointments then the allocated five, it's probably safe to say there are likly in excess of 100 highlyqualified candidates with nomninations from VA each year to USMMA. So those five spots are filled very quickly and then the rest Likely 95 - 125 are placed into the Nationl Pool. Given the highly competative nature of seeking an appointment from Virginia, for lots of easy to see reasons - Norfolk, DC, Fort AP Hill, QUantico, etc. it's entirely possible that someone from VA has an easier time getting an appointment out of the National Pool than they do getting an appointmkent for one of "their state's spots". My view is this is generally true for anyone from one of the "Top Five Source States" for any of the SA's requireing nominations. This is not to say anyone from one of the States that seldom uses all their spots has an easy time of it. In ALL cases their are minimums astablished annually to things like Standardized Test Scores, PFT and of course DODMERBB requirements. Everyone entering a class must meet that class' minimums, even if that means there is a nominee from a state with an open appointment spot. So as noted by MedB, everyone at every academy can remain proud and confident that minimum standards are upheld, even when there is a nomnination by an elected official required.

I'll go a step further and diverge for a second and say, all that being true, I for one would have no problem with a son or daughter of a fallen service member recieving a Presidential Appointment to any of the three Academies that have them, and not have that entering PC be subject to any part of this process or minimums. If that happened and they made it through the four years at USMA, USAFA, or USNA, I'm sure they'd be an honor to the service they commissioned into.

Secondly of possible specific interest to Hard-Charger:

I note Hard-Charger indiates their location as VA-11 and apparently their first choice is USNA. Unfortunately for you, I don't know the numbers this year but for the Classes of 2015 and 2016 competition for Congressman Connoley's district's nominations to USNA have been some of the most competative in the nation, as has Competition for nominations from VA-8, VA-1, and VA-10. Further in the case of VA-10 and VA-11 each of those districts has had on the order of 3-5 appointees each year. Last year's prinicipal from VA-11 was a sophmore NROTC student from UVA with a GPA of 3.5+. It is for that reason that in prior years a couple of us in the area worked with a 1996 USMMA graduate who was on then VA-11 Congressman Davis' staff to get him to allow his interviewing board to talk to interviewees for USNA appointments about USMMA. Congressman Davis required each aplicant to designate a first choice and that was the only academy he considered that applicant for that year. He stayed true to his position - he had real considered reasons for it and we respected him for it, however in his last three years in office he allowed the USMMA graduate and the senior USNA graduate on his board to talk to the candaidates for his #5 - 9th alternate for USNA and those who were not going to get consideration/ ranking for a nomination for USNA about their chances for a nomination and appointment to USMMA and what it meant/entailed. Subsequent to that decision, the amount of appointees AND more importantly in my view successful graduates for USMMA coming from VA-11 has gone up markedly. Not specically sure how the curren board handles it but the people on the board have not changed and as I said VA-11 is a very high source of appointees to both USNA and USMMA. For reference and since the interview board for VA-10 is a USMA grad who takes pride in such things, last year VA-10 was the leading source for entering PC to West Point's Cass of 2016. I wish you luck in your quet and don't loose hope regardless of whether your goal is USCGA, USNA, USMA, USAFA or USMMA.

Like I said I'm not trying to enter into the debate as to wether Congressional Nominations are good or bad - especially here on the USCGA forum - just trying to add some additional food for thought on how it works for USMMA as well as how it works in two highly competative districts in Northern VA.
 
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That's all really good information jasper.


My question to you, given a choice betwee not having federally mandated nominations and having federally mandated nominations.... which would you prefer, personally?
 
That's all really good information jasper.


My question to you, given a choice betwee not having federally mandated nominations and having federally mandated nominations.... which would you prefer, personally?

Only because you asked, I think nominations add to the process and I favor them, especially in the case of USMMA.

Before I go on, I want to state - I'm not trying to throw a bomb into the USCGA discussion, as I recall the recent efforts by Congressman Cummings and don't wish to have moltov cocktails lobbed back at me. I don't think it has to be an either/or. Just because I think nomiiations work and help USMMA doesn't mean I have an opinion relative to any of the other forur academies or their processes.

In the case of USMMA, I think where it's done properly, and I think that's the majority of the 535 nominating authorities, it helps the school "get the word out" to some qualified applicants who otherwise might not even consider or be aware of USMMA. I know several fellow alumni, who are now leaders in the maritim industry that never heard of USMMA until they went to look at getting a nomination for one of the other three schools that require it. After all we don't have a pretty advertisment like USCGA does in "Eagle" - not a slight in any way, when I thought of possibly going to USCGA, that's what attracted me to consider New London though ultimately USMMA was my first choice, I had sailed on a Tall Ship as part of Op-Sail '76 - Eagle is a great recruiting tool as well, IMO, as a sailor, as a seamanship laboratory.

Further I think given what USMMA is suppossed to be - a training institute for leaders in the maritime industry - which is a multiculutral, global industry - geographic, ethnic, cultuaral, etc. diversity is even more important then the other Academies. As such, I think the subjectivity and the fact that it does indeed ensure that not everyone coming into the relatively small entering classes of ~300 are at the same level, from te same place, etc. is an important first step in learning how to deal with other cultures and perspectives as well as working with those who don't have the same skills as you do/I did. I often think back to how my Plebe Roomate taught/tutored smart sectionmates from Tennessee and South Carolina in Calculus because they didn't have good math backgrounds from highschool. From that right off the bat we all learned teamwork and how while those few classmates weren't great at "Calc" they brought other things to the table we Northeasterners didn't that were complimentary and just as important to our success as a group, etc. Do I think everybody learns that at an Academy - yes, but for us at the USMMA, especially "B-Splitters" it's important to learn it well during plebe year before we go to sea for our first sea year.

Then during sea year we learn all sorts of things - no not that stuff - but other important stuff that's fun too - like how to really work with, among, and get productivity out of unionized shipmates, foriegn longshoremen, etc. Things that frankly, arrogant snots like most of us were/are when we show up on "I-Day" on top of the world really don't even begin to understand. Add the inevitable "homogeny" that starts and grows amongst us all during our time at an SA, and it can be disasterous in the Maritime Industry, and in my view even moreso than in the military. In many, many ways, the Maser of a Commercial Vessel Underway, has virtualy no equal in practical or legal authority other than the CO of an SSBN on patrol and running quiet - no I'm not saying he controls Ballistic Missiles but his legal authority is pretty interesting when you read initernational maritime law. However, to be effective, he or she, must really understand multicultural organizations and international relations - and I believe the diversity, as well as the confidence, and humility, I got and I know my son got starting with his interview and going through the congressional nomination process helps/helped - a significant degree.

So I'm not saying it's the same for everyone or every academy, but that's my view and the basis of it.
 
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In the case of USMMA, I think where it's done properly, and I think that's the majority of the 535 nominating authorities, it helps the school "get the word out" to some qualified applicants who otherwise might not even consider or be aware of USMMA. I know several fellow alumni, who are now leaders in the maritim industry that never heard of USMMA until they went to look at getting a nomination for one of the other three schools that require it.

You know, I had not thought of that. I went to a "academy day" in Nashville and walked by a USMMA booth.... stopped and talked. My BGO also pushed me to consider USMMA as I was applying to USNA and USCGA.... so I did. And the more I saw, the more I liked. Even within the academy day community there, it was a relative unknown. I can see how the process would draw some attention to it.
 
Further I think given what USMMA is suppossed to be - a training institute for leaders in the maritime industry - which is a multiculutral, global industry - geographic, ethnic, cultuaral, etc. diversity is even more important then the other Academies. As such, I think the subjectivity and the fact that it does indeed ensure that not everyone coming into the relatively small entering classes of ~300 are at the same level, from te same place, etc. is an important first step in learning how to deal with other cultures and perspectives as well as working with those who don't have the same skills as you do/I did. I often think back to how my Plebe Roomate taught/tutored smart sectionmates from Tennessee and South Carolina in Calculus because they didn't have good math backgrounds from highschool. From that right off the bat we all learned teamwork and how while those few classmates weren't great at "Calc" they brought other things to the table we Northeasterners didn't that were complimentary and just as important to our success as a group, etc. Do I think everybody learns that at an Academy - yes, but for us at the USMMA, especially "B-Splitters" it's important to learn it well during plebe year before we go to sea for our first sea year.


I understand what you're saying here, but I don't agree that a lack of the nomination process would hurt this. I was a TN guy. My best friend was a TX guy. My future then brother-in-law was a RI guy. His future brother-in-law was a CT guy. My roommates were from TX, MS, MA and Honduras. I had girlfriends from PA, NH and VA (at different times of course). Nearly every state was prepresented, including our Wyoming classmate who got a shout out from Vice President Cheney.
 
In the case of USMMA, I think where it's done properly, and I think that's the majority of the 535 nominating authorities, it helps the school "get the word out" to some qualified applicants who otherwise might not even consider or be aware of USMMA.

Not sure I understand that point. As an Admissions Partner I have attended several Congressional Academy Nights even though USCGA does not require a nomination, we still present at Congressional Academy events (when a member of congress has one -- many do not). If you have a great district office with a quality selection board the system can work. However, there are those members of congress who, for a number of reasons, don't and students from those districts can be looking at a considerable road block.
 
In the case of USMMA, I think where it's done properly, and I think that's the majority of the 535 nominating authorities, it helps the school "get the word out" to some qualified applicants who otherwise might not even consider or be aware of USMMA.

I agree, but would also take it one step further. Here in California we are about as far away from all of the Service Academies as you can get. The USCGA did have a representative at our Congressional Academy Day but they definitely were not featured the same as the other academies. It was more like they just mentioned that you could go to the back of the room and talk to a USCGA representative if you would like. The other academies all had someone up on stage speaking. Also, we only went to one Academy Day presentation.

The other source of information we have about the academies is actually bigger. Each year, our Congressman issues a press release with his nominees and our local newspaper runs a full page article featuring the Principle Nominees to the “four” service academies and lists the names of all the other nominees. They don’t even mention the Coast Guard Academy.

They discuss the prestige of attending the Service Academies and have a picture of each Principle Nominee along with a write up discussing their academic, athletic and leadership accomplishments. It was mostly from these annual full page articles in our newspaper that we were aware of the prestige of the Academies and the high caliber of students they were attracting. I think it is a really good recruiting tool that gets some of our top students to apply for a nomination.

When my son received his Principle Nomination I was really surprised at how many people called and congratulated me when they saw the article about him in the newspaper. I think it is unfortunate that the USCGA does not get this same kind of exposure. It is a fine academy and I think they would get the attention of more of our top students if they did.
 
I agree, but would also take it one step further. Here in California we are about as far away from all of the Service Academies as you can get. The USCGA did have a representative at our Congressional Academy Day but they definitely were not featured the same as the other academies. It was more like they just mentioned that you could go to the back of the room and talk to a USCGA representative if you would like. The other academies all had someone up on stage speaking. Also, we only went to one Academy Day presentation.

The other source of information we have about the academies is actually bigger. Each year, our Congressman issues a press release with his nominees and our local newspaper runs a full page article featuring the Principle Nominees to the “four” service academies and lists the names of all the other nominees. They don’t even mention the Coast Guard Academy.

They discuss the prestige of attending the Service Academies and have a picture of each Principle Nominee along with a write up discussing their academic, athletic and leadership accomplishments. It was mostly from these annual full page articles in our newspaper that we were aware of the prestige of the Academies and the high caliber of students they were attracting. I think it is a really good recruiting tool that gets some of our top students to apply for a nomination.

When my son received his Principle Nomination I was really surprised at how many people called and congratulated me when they saw the article about him in the newspaper. I think it is unfortunate that the USCGA does not get this same kind of exposure. It is a fine academy and I think they would get the attention of more of our top students if they did.

That's unique to your area. At my academy day each service has a representative on stage, and each spoke.
 
Jasper, Is it true that USMMA's nomination law is different from the other academies in that one may obtain a congressional nomination from any congressperson in their State; not just their home district?
 
Jasper, Is it true that USMMA's nomination law is different from the other academies in that one may obtain a congressional nomination from any congressperson in their State; not just their home district?

I too like the CRS publication that LITS referenced here but find in answering this direct question it's a little vague, IMO.

The short direct answer is yes, for USMMA a nominating authorty can nominate anyone from anywhere in the state, they do not have to be from their district. The law is different the applicable law is found in 46 CFR 310 - sorry didn't go and check the exact subparagraph for you this time its somewheere between 46 CFR 310.50 and 46 CFR 310.60 though.

As a longer answer though, as this is different many Members are unaware they can nominate residents of their State who are not residents of their district. Also many just as a matter of policy and course do not and will not do so as it doesn't fit the parameters of the processes they have in place. That said it never hurts to ask them to consider doing so IMO.
 
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