What would be an example of a "medical turnback"
Failing Out of BCT
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What would be an example of a "medical turnback"
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LITS, this is awesome.
Going through Plebe Summer now. Well, I'm not; my Plebe son is, but you know what I mean. Whether it is in the letters/notes I write or the phone call we just had this past Sunday, I always hope I am saying and doing the right things, but I'm pretty sure I closed one of my recent letters with "I"m so proud of you".
I am proud, but he knows that. I do say "I love you" . . . all the time, and I love him no matter what . . . but maybe that part is harder to remember when he's trying to run, learn "Rates", run, get through the evolutions, and run some more.
Thank you for the reminder that "I love you no matter what" is what he really needs to hear.
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I may have put too much emphasis on that "proud" part. I'm certainly not telling you to not let them know you're proud of them. And whether you say it or not, each kid doesn't want to let down the people at home cheering them on.
No problem saying "We're proud of you."
No problem saying "We're proud of you."
BlahuKahuna
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Any injury or illness that causes you to miss too much training and report with the next year's class. Broken limbs or torn ligaments are fairly common. Just because you're hurt or sick doesn't always mean you'll be dropped from training, it is really case by case.
BlahuKahuna
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Anecdotal note to the case by case nature of turnbacks-the time that the injury/illness occurs during basic matters too. My flight lost a basic (now a 2018'r) for a fractured arm pretty early into 1st BCT, but another basic who subluxed something in his knee at the assault course was able to stay since he had already completed every course at least once and was well into 2nd BCT.
The different kinds of Form 18s (those are records of medical care with instructions for bedrest, self-paced exercise, etc) can affect whether a basic can stay or not too. A basic who has 8 days of bedrest is obviously different than someone who just can't do pushups or run.
Just things to keep in mind when looking through pictures on webguy
The academy generally does a really good job of taking care of sick/hurt basics.
The different kinds of Form 18s (those are records of medical care with instructions for bedrest, self-paced exercise, etc) can affect whether a basic can stay or not too. A basic who has 8 days of bedrest is obviously different than someone who just can't do pushups or run.
Just things to keep in mind when looking through pictures on webguy
The academy generally does a really good job of taking care of sick/hurt basics.
Christcorp
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Ramius. You've known me way too many years. You know you have to read my context. Right after the comma when I said there's nothing wrong with failing, I said: "assuming you give it your all". As hard as we may try and as much passion that we give 110%, sometimes we fail. There are many things I've given my all and still didn't succeed. If a person gives it their all, they'll be able to sleep at night whether they succeeded or failed at the task/goal at hand.
But that's not to say that failure is easy to swallow. Sometimes failure even means people die. I've been in the unfortunate position to see that side of it too. When we did everything we thought was right. When we thought we couldn't have done it any better or differently. The outcome was definitely not what we hoped for. But there's definitely a difference between failure and fault.
But that's not to say that failure is easy to swallow. Sometimes failure even means people die. I've been in the unfortunate position to see that side of it too. When we did everything we thought was right. When we thought we couldn't have done it any better or differently. The outcome was definitely not what we hoped for. But there's definitely a difference between failure and fault.
Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, I think that there is a such thing as failing days during basic. I had a kid in my basic flight who had a huge attitude problem and would constantly be causing problems. If I do recall correctly, there might have been a day or two during first beast that it was determined that he did not "pass" that day. I can only imagine that it would be very extremely rare for someone to fail 8 days and subsequently be kicked out however the failure system is real.
MombaBomba
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Every basic there at some point breaks. My son told me this before he went off to the academy for BCT in June (he did his research). All sorts of methods are used (mental, physical). Then it is a matter of picking themselves up and being built up again. Some basics may break individually, some may do it in a group, some may do it openly, some may do it in private, some may share their experience with others, and some may keep it to themselves. The breaking is never pretty, but the building is where the "beauty" is created.
My son has shared some things with us, both good and bad, funny and serious, ugly and beautiful. But no matter how tough things are, he still says this is where he wants to be. In the end, each basic has to fully believe that the reward is definitely worth the cost.
By beauty, here is an example and it is mentioned in webguy. There were basics seriously struggling with the AFT test (1.5 mile run). Those basics that completed it, kept running around the track to catch up with the struggling stragglers from behind. They continued to run with the stragglers, encouraging them to continue and stayed with the stragglers until the stragglers crossed the finish line.
My son has shared some things with us, both good and bad, funny and serious, ugly and beautiful. But no matter how tough things are, he still says this is where he wants to be. In the end, each basic has to fully believe that the reward is definitely worth the cost.
By beauty, here is an example and it is mentioned in webguy. There were basics seriously struggling with the AFT test (1.5 mile run). Those basics that completed it, kept running around the track to catch up with the struggling stragglers from behind. They continued to run with the stragglers, encouraging them to continue and stayed with the stragglers until the stragglers crossed the finish line.
I'm not sure this is correct. BCT may be designed to stress cadets physically and mentally...but I don't think it breaks them. By the end of BCT they may have a new found respect for where their perceived limits are....but I doubt many actually find the point where they can't take the physical or mental testing anymore. Those that actually do "break" might be some of the ones that don't complete BCT. JMPO...
Hi Aglages,
That every cadet "breaks" sooner or later at the SA's is pretty commonly accepted as fact. Perhaps you are reacting to the word itself and having a strong reaction to your definition of what it means. Let me share some examples...
Story #1 - My DS was in pretty darn good shape... better than good. He set the all-time record for his large HS for Fitnessgram (as a junior no less) and maxed several CFA categories, blah blah. He shared with us that even he "broke" physically at USAFA and we were shocked at first until he told us that the cadre make sure of it by sometimes swapping out trainers as needed until you can't possibly keep up. No matter how in shape you are, you simply cannot do more reps than 4 people combined that also get to rest in between!
It's what happens next that matters... do you just give up? Do you stop putting out? Do you quit on yourself or the squad? Or do you keep pushing past your limits?
Story #2 - My DD was lucky enough to be in a beat session with her BCT2 lead cadre on the day they took over. This guy was intense and beat that small group of 6 or so cadets hard.... really really hard. There were groans, some sobbing, etc. Remember he's doing it with them too and struggling right along side them. Just then he says to them in the most confident voice.... "I know you are all breaking physically, but I won't let you give up on yourself. When you think you can't do one more, just look in my eyes and take strength from me. We will do it together and we WILL get through it together"
DD said here was this crazy mean guy she had just met an hour or two earlier and now he's inspiring the hell out of them and dragging them along to a place they never thought they could go. Cadets that had quit trying, tried again, the sobs turned to snarls and tears became ones of pride instead of defeat as they went from broken to triumphant.
(By the way this young leader is what 20 years old? And we wonder about the value of our SA's as leadership training? Awesome)
Yeah, they break... but it's an empowering and a profound experience when it's done as part of growing and becoming a future leader of our nation's finest.
That every cadet "breaks" sooner or later at the SA's is pretty commonly accepted as fact. Perhaps you are reacting to the word itself and having a strong reaction to your definition of what it means. Let me share some examples...
Story #1 - My DS was in pretty darn good shape... better than good. He set the all-time record for his large HS for Fitnessgram (as a junior no less) and maxed several CFA categories, blah blah. He shared with us that even he "broke" physically at USAFA and we were shocked at first until he told us that the cadre make sure of it by sometimes swapping out trainers as needed until you can't possibly keep up. No matter how in shape you are, you simply cannot do more reps than 4 people combined that also get to rest in between!
It's what happens next that matters... do you just give up? Do you stop putting out? Do you quit on yourself or the squad? Or do you keep pushing past your limits?
Story #2 - My DD was lucky enough to be in a beat session with her BCT2 lead cadre on the day they took over. This guy was intense and beat that small group of 6 or so cadets hard.... really really hard. There were groans, some sobbing, etc. Remember he's doing it with them too and struggling right along side them. Just then he says to them in the most confident voice.... "I know you are all breaking physically, but I won't let you give up on yourself. When you think you can't do one more, just look in my eyes and take strength from me. We will do it together and we WILL get through it together"
DD said here was this crazy mean guy she had just met an hour or two earlier and now he's inspiring the hell out of them and dragging them along to a place they never thought they could go. Cadets that had quit trying, tried again, the sobs turned to snarls and tears became ones of pride instead of defeat as they went from broken to triumphant.
(By the way this young leader is what 20 years old? And we wonder about the value of our SA's as leadership training? Awesome)
Yeah, they break... but it's an empowering and a profound experience when it's done as part of growing and becoming a future leader of our nation's finest.
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Hi Aglages,
This idea that every cadet "breaks" sooner or later is commonly accepted as fact. Perhaps you are reacting to the word itself and having a strong reaction to your notion of what it means. Let me give you an example...
Story #1 - My DS was in pretty darn good shape... better than good. He set the all-time record for his large HS for Fitnessgram (as a junior no less) and maxed several CFA categories, etc etc. He shared that even he "broke" physically at USAFA, and cadre makes sure of it by sometimes swapping out trainers until everyone does. No matter how in shape you are, you cannot do more reps than 4 people combined that get to rest in between!!!
It's what happens next that matters... do you give up? Do you stop putting out? Do you quit on yourself or the squad? Or do you keep pushing past your limits?
Story #2 - My DD was lucky enough to be in a beat session with her BCT2 lead cadre on the day they took over. This guy beat that small group 6 hard.... really hard. There were groans, some sobbing, etc and remember he's doing it with them too. Just then he says to them in the most reassuring voice.... "I know you are all breaking physically, but I won't let you give up on yourself. When you think you can't do one more, just look in my eyes and take strength from me. We will do it together and we WILL get through it together"
DD said here wast this guy she had just met an hour or two earlier and he's inspiring the hell out of them and dragging them along to a place they never thought they could go. Cadets that had quit trying, tried again, the sobs turned to snarls and tears turned from ones of defeat into pride as they went from broken to triumphant.
(By the way this young leader is what 20 years old? And we wonder if if our SA's are worth it? Awesome)
Yeah, they break... but it can be an empowering and a profound experience when it's done as part growing into a future leader of our nation's finest.
This idea that every cadet "breaks" sooner or later is commonly accepted as fact. Perhaps you are reacting to the word itself and having a strong reaction to your notion of what it means. Let me give you an example...
Story #1 - My DS was in pretty darn good shape... better than good. He set the all-time record for his large HS for Fitnessgram (as a junior no less) and maxed several CFA categories, etc etc. He shared that even he "broke" physically at USAFA, and cadre makes sure of it by sometimes swapping out trainers until everyone does. No matter how in shape you are, you cannot do more reps than 4 people combined that get to rest in between!!!
It's what happens next that matters... do you give up? Do you stop putting out? Do you quit on yourself or the squad? Or do you keep pushing past your limits?
Story #2 - My DD was lucky enough to be in a beat session with her BCT2 lead cadre on the day they took over. This guy beat that small group 6 hard.... really hard. There were groans, some sobbing, etc and remember he's doing it with them too. Just then he says to them in the most reassuring voice.... "I know you are all breaking physically, but I won't let you give up on yourself. When you think you can't do one more, just look in my eyes and take strength from me. We will do it together and we WILL get through it together"
DD said here wast this guy she had just met an hour or two earlier and he's inspiring the hell out of them and dragging them along to a place they never thought they could go. Cadets that had quit trying, tried again, the sobs turned to snarls and tears turned from ones of defeat into pride as they went from broken to triumphant.
(By the way this young leader is what 20 years old? And we wonder if if our SA's are worth it? Awesome)
Yeah, they break... but it can be an empowering and a profound experience when it's done as part growing into a future leader of our nation's finest.
Christcorp
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Just my opinion; but "Break" is a mysterious word. Does the cadre/academy care if you break physically or mentally? No; not really. Do they really care if you succeed in the individual tasks set forth? No; not really. It's more complicated than that. We could get into some philosophical discussion about it, but one of the main purpose of basic training; (Officer or enlisted - for as many years back as it's every existed in any branch of the military); is to break the "Individuality" of the cadet. Don't worry, they'll get it back.
But to understand the military is to understand that it's ultimate goal is to develop a "Team" that can accomplish specific goals. But because of the nature of the military and war, it's almost impossible for goals to be accomplished by an individual. No one person can defeat an opposing military force.
So, during BCT, you take 1000+/- individuals from 50 states, numerous US Territories, numerous countries...... with different background, morals, values, experiences........ different religions, goals, expectations, dreams....... different families, economics, and beliefs..... And some how, you find what they have in common, and you use that to teach them to work together. The objective is not to carry a 10 foot log that weighs 300 lbs a certain distance. The goal is to have individuals work together and become a team to accomplish the task. Accomplishing the task is simply the reward of the team and confidence building. This will happen all the way through BCT as well as through academics. Is it possible to be a loaner and do it all on your own. The majority; probably yes. But you won't survive in the military. If you make it through the academy and go full time active duty, you'll probably last your minimum 5 years and you'll get out. You'll have hated most of your time over that 9 year period.
So don't see the word "Breaking" / "Breaks" as some sort of goal or inevitable degradation. It's simply putting these 1000 cadet's lives into perspective. They are no longer the big fish in a small pond. Being ranked #1 in your high school class means absolutely nothing. Having spent 4 years in JrROTC is irrelevant. CAP is another name for "Hat". Captain of the football team is a distant memory. But when it's all done with........ and your "Individuality" is restored, and you go through the rest of the academy and your time in the "Real" Air Force, you'll be prepared to make decisions that don't just affect you, but you'll have the skills and empathy to make decisions that are for the good of the "Team" (Whatever size that is) and the Air Force as a whole.
But to understand the military is to understand that it's ultimate goal is to develop a "Team" that can accomplish specific goals. But because of the nature of the military and war, it's almost impossible for goals to be accomplished by an individual. No one person can defeat an opposing military force.
So, during BCT, you take 1000+/- individuals from 50 states, numerous US Territories, numerous countries...... with different background, morals, values, experiences........ different religions, goals, expectations, dreams....... different families, economics, and beliefs..... And some how, you find what they have in common, and you use that to teach them to work together. The objective is not to carry a 10 foot log that weighs 300 lbs a certain distance. The goal is to have individuals work together and become a team to accomplish the task. Accomplishing the task is simply the reward of the team and confidence building. This will happen all the way through BCT as well as through academics. Is it possible to be a loaner and do it all on your own. The majority; probably yes. But you won't survive in the military. If you make it through the academy and go full time active duty, you'll probably last your minimum 5 years and you'll get out. You'll have hated most of your time over that 9 year period.
So don't see the word "Breaking" / "Breaks" as some sort of goal or inevitable degradation. It's simply putting these 1000 cadet's lives into perspective. They are no longer the big fish in a small pond. Being ranked #1 in your high school class means absolutely nothing. Having spent 4 years in JrROTC is irrelevant. CAP is another name for "Hat". Captain of the football team is a distant memory. But when it's all done with........ and your "Individuality" is restored, and you go through the rest of the academy and your time in the "Real" Air Force, you'll be prepared to make decisions that don't just affect you, but you'll have the skills and empathy to make decisions that are for the good of the "Team" (Whatever size that is) and the Air Force as a whole.
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Christcorp
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P.S. (I wanted this as a separate post). This is why the academy admissions emphasizes Organized Sports and Leadership so much. Yes, they care if you're physically fit, but they aren't trying to field an athletic department of kids destined for the NBA, NFL, MLB, etc... They want individuals who are "Predisposed" to working as a team to accomplish goals that aren't possible to be accomplished individually.