Recruiting vs. Blue Chip?

Rocko said:
Why did it affect their academic achievements? There are MANY D1 athletes at the academy who also handled the Academics. Why are we making an exception for them?



What about all the candidates who were great athletes (But not D1 level) who worked very hard at their sports AND were also great academically etc. There are many who are turned down each year that fall into this category. Why does the D1 athlete who is NOT ready academically deserve a spot over this group?
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I already explained why it may have affected their academic achievement. Not all high schools are equal when it comes to academics and sports. In some high schools, just showing up gets you an A, while in others you have to work night and day to eek out a B. In some high schools, you can just join and participate in a team and earn a Varsity letter automatically as Junior, while others you have to train year round in order to make and stay on the team.

You are expanding the discussion beyond my initial point. I was focusing on D1 athletes who are accepted into the prep program. I gave a reason why they may be valued and given the chance in the prep program.

Once again, it all comes down to why does the academy seem to value D1 athletics so highly? The answer to that will likely provide the answer to most of everyone's questions.
 
Momba: Just one point of correction. If a recruited athlete has the grades and SAT/ACT that you're speaking of; B+ meaning a 3.5 ish and average ACT is around 28; then I would pretty much guarantee that they WOULDN'T be going to the prep school.

Now; if you define a B+ as being a 2.8-3.2 gpa; and you say AVERAGE ACT is around 24 (Which is BELOW MINIMUM STANDARDS for the academy); then I could see them possibly getting a Prep-School slot. But NOT if they are sitting with 28+ACT and 3.5 gpa. Not saying that it "couldn't" happen, just that I've seen way too many applicants, including athletes, who weren't offered the prep-school because their grades were TOO GOOD. And a B+ GPA and Average (For an incoming cadet ACT/SAT) is TOO HIGH.

Of course, there are many caveats. Example: 29+ ACT in ALL subjects EXCEPT Math, where they get a 21. Or; a 3.8 gpa, where the got "A's" in most everything except for every math class they took where they got a "C". Thus bringing them to a 3.7-3.8 vs a 3.9-4.0. In these cases, I could see where the prep-school may have been offered. But again; I've seen 4-5 Star nationally ranked athletes apply to the academy and they were turned down because the COACHES and Admissions knew that even with the prep school, they weren't going to be able to handle the academics and military lifestyle of the academy and air force.
 
Christcorp said:
Momba: Just one point of correction. If a recruited athlete has the grades and SAT/ACT that you're speaking of; B+ meaning a 3.5 ish and average ACT is around 28; then I would pretty much guarantee that they WOULDN'T be going to the prep school.

Now; if you define a B+ as being a 2.8-3.2 gpa; and you say AVERAGE ACT is around 24 (Which is BELOW MINIMUM STANDARDS for the academy); then I could see them possibly getting a Prep-School slot. But NOT if they are sitting with 28+ACT and 3.5 gpa. Not saying that it "couldn't" happen, just that I've seen way too many applicants, including athletes, who weren't offered the prep-school because their grades were TOO GOOD. And a B+ GPA and Average (For an incoming cadet ACT/SAT) is TOO HIGH.

Of course, there are many caveats. Example: 29+ ACT in ALL subjects EXCEPT Math, where they get a 21. Or; a 3.8 gpa, where the got "A's" in most everything except for every math class they took where they got a "C". Thus bringing them to a 3.7-3.8 vs a 3.9-4.0. In these cases, I could see where the prep-school may have been offered. But again; I've seen 4-5 Star nationally ranked athletes apply to the academy and they were turned down because the COACHES and Admissions knew that even with the prep school, they weren't going to be able to handle the academics and military lifestyle of the academy and air force.
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My bad. I was going for an in general not "all i's dotted and t's crossed" USAFA academic profile. I don't have all those numbers memorized.

I have also heard that the prep school has been used for those who qualify but didn't get a nomination. The athlete was recruited too late to receive a nomination, thus he was placed in the prep school: college recruiting rules impacting USAFA admission/acceptance as nomination dead lines may have already passed by the time the athlete is approached/recruited.
 
MombaBomba said:
I have also heard that the prep school has been used for those who qualify but didn't get a nomination.
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You are referring to IC recruits that were qualified and didn't get a nomination and not the 1000+ of WELL qualified non IC athletes that already had a nomination.....right?
 
aglages said:
You are referring to IC recruits that were qualified and didn't get a nomination and not the 1000+ of WELL qualified non IC athletes that already had a nomination.....right?
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Yes. It's one of those things I heard. I don't know how true it is. But if I have heard it, I am sure others have as well. I am usually the last to hear, so I figured maybe I could be the first to ask openly.

So much is said "behind closed doors." Rumor central is still as busy as ever.
 
aglages said:
"Air Force football is one of just six schools to have a 90 percent Graduation Success Rate (GSR) each of the last three years. The Falcons are the only service academy, Mountain West Conference school and public institution to be over 90 percent each of the last three years."

http://www.goairforcefalcons.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/120114aab.html
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That's excellent!

The article didn't specify how the stat was complied. Did you see anywhere else if the 10 percent which didn't graduate included those who choose to voluntarily leave the academy and/or are dismissed due to violations?
 
aglages said:
I have to admit Boozebin that your son is the first example I've heard of the reverse at USAFAPS. Congrats to you both.....I'm sure he'll be a great airman.:thumb:
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Thanks for the complement Aglages, we'll just have to wait and see on the great ariman part. He has all the tools but he's stubborn knucklehead like I was at that age.:yllol:
 
Boozebin said:
Yes my very own DS:thumb:. I have been pretty open about that in other post when I give advice about doing a sport in HS. He did not play a single sport in HS.

My DS had all the other boxes checked in what we would call the no brainer category. High SAT/ACT check, High GPA check, Leadership check, Boy State check, etc. but no sports, and CFA slightly above average on all scores. He did not get a nomination therefore no appointment.

He was offered a AFA Prep slot and is there now. Failed his first two PFT but is now killing it. Academically he's pulling A's in all his classes and is the Training NCO for his squad and tutors his CC mates and will more than likely be taking Physics and Calc at the Hill next semester.

So in my opinion yes, he is one of those cadets that are academically qualified but not physically qualified. It does happen, no where near the scale of the reverse I agree with you there but there are those types of CCs in the Prep.

While I agree with you 100% that the numbers don't look good for the recruited athletes but they don't look good for the diversity and Priors either.

Now is it because of the vetting process before they get to the Prep school or is it because of how they're trained while at Prep that affects their chance at the SA? I tend to lean to the latter.

Hell I wouldn't call myself an ideal Airman before I enlisted many moons ago but the AF sure knew how to mold me the way they wanted to and I can honestly say I'm a better man today because of it.:biggrin:
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Booze, from what you wrote your son IS physically qualified since he scored slilghtly above average on all parts of the CFA. Doing sports while desirable, is not required to get an appointment. It appears he did not get direct appointment because he did not have a nomination which IS required. I'd imagine if he had gotten a nomination then he would have been a direct admit.

From what you post he is a great candidate but just needed the nomination. The Academy recognized this and gave him the golden ticket. Good for your son and good for the Academy. :thumb:
 
MombaBomba said:
Did you see anywhere else if the 10 percent which didn't graduate included those who choose to voluntarily leave the academy and/or are dismissed due to violations?
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Sadly...all the information I have is what I read in that article. I am hoping that what it seems to say....is accurate and not either a play on words or a inflated stat based only on seniors that were still on the team as of Nov 1st 2014, have red hair and were born in months ending in "r". :cool:
 
Rocko said:
Booze, from what you wrote your son IS physically qualified since he scored slilghtly above average on all parts of the CFA. Doing sports while desirable, is not required to get an appointment. It appears he did not get direct appointment because he did not have a nomination which IS required. I'd imagine if he had gotten a nomination then he would have been a direct admit.

From what you post he is a great candidate but just needed the nomination. The Academy recognized this and gave him the golden ticket. Good for your son and good for the Academy. :thumb:
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Thanks Roko:thumb:

But I think that's the crux of this entire discussion. It's such a black box. Applications go in and offers come out. How the admission creates that mix is black magic to all of us so we question when we hear about these great kids that don't get in like CC has been saying in all his post.

As you can see I'm a huge champion for Prep (Gee I wonder why):eek: but I'm not blinded to the fact that historically the numbers are against you so something needs to change but I strongly believe it's not the intake process but how the program prepares them for the Hill.
 
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