What was your ACT?

This is not rocket science folks
1. The academies SUPER-SCORE. Take the ACT AND the SAT as many times as you can afford to take it. Your score can NEVER go down. It can ONLY GO UP. Anything a HS Guidance counselor tells you contrary to this; "FOR THE ACADEMIES" is completely wrong, and they need to go back to coloring in the corner.

2. Traditional Universities are different. Many of them are different from each other. Some take the HIGHEST Set Score. Some take the NEWEST TAKEN TEST. Some take only the FIRST TEST you SEND THEM. Some want you to send them ALL of the tests you've ever taken. Some just one; because they'll only accept one. You need to see what the school you're applying to has for a policy and go based on that. Take the test 2, 3, 4, 10 times if you want, and send in the best score to the school(s) you want to. Nothing says you have to send the test each and every time you take it. CAVEAT: There are some applications; like the ivy's, where the same application is used for more than one school. If a school asks for all of your tests, and you send them 2; but another school using that same application you sent 3-4, you might find yourself trying to explain why you didn't follow their rules.

And NO; the colleges do not know how many times you took the tests. College Board cannot release ANY tests that you don't permit. There is a privacy rule, and they aren't going to break that. So again; know what the schools are asking for before automatically sending them your scores. But again, for the academies, "Because they are the BEST universities in the country"; take the tests as many times as you can afford to. You can only improve. If a college/HS counselor tells you differently, then they either don't know about the academies, or they are idiots. That's for you to decide.
 
Separate reply concerning the Weighted Candidate Score.

Yes, it is pretty well broken down into categories.
Academics 60%,
leadership/Athletics/EC/Community/work/etc 20%
Admissions Panel/ALO Interview/CFA/Writing Sample/etc. 20%

As for "Subjectivity", that is a bit sketchy. There's a little subjectivity in academics. But that subjectivity is MOSTLY a calculation. However, there is SOME subjectivity. EXAMPLE: 5 Applicants, each has a 30 ACT in all areas. Each has a 4.0 gpa. Applicant #1 is home schooled, doesn't have any advanced classes available, but takes summer classes at local community college. Applicant #2 is in a rural school with NO AP, IB, or Honor's Classes. Applicant #3 is in public school and has just AP classes available and takes about half of them. Applicant #4 is in a private school that has BOTH AP and IB classes and DOESN'T TAKE ANY OF THEM. Applicant #5 is in a public school and is enrolled in the IB Program, takes ALL IB classes, takes additional AP classes as their electives.

As you can see, there is, and MUST HAVE SOME Subjectivity to academics; to make it fair.

Same with Extra Curriculum, Athletics, work, etc. They have to COMPARE one candidate who is involved with 2 varsity sports per year, with a person who is in 1 varsity sport per year, but is also in Band or another activity. Then compare them with the person who has 1 sport, but WORKS after school every day to help support their family. And in ALL of these activities, are you a LEADER IN ALL OF THEM; vs the person who has leadership in JrROTC, CAP, or Scouts, but in the REST of their activities like sports, band, work church, etc. they are just one of the "Team Members" and they don't have ANY ADDITIONAL LEADERSHIP. Obviously, there is going to be SOME subjectivity and weighting a little differently for each of these candidates.

And what about the ALO interview and CFA? I've interviewed a lot of applicants. NO TWO ARE THE SAME!!! Some blow the interview out of the water. SOME get BLOWN UP IN the water. CFA??? Is 8 pullups better than 5??? What if the 8 is by a 200 lb football linebacker, and the 5 is from a 100 lb female who does gymnastics??? Even if you keep it "GENDER SPECIFIC", what if the 5 was a 140 lb male who does cross country? The 5 may appear to be more impressive. So it COULD be a little subjective.

So USMA 1994 is correct that there is little subjectivity in the development of each candidate's WCS. However, there is subjectivity when comparing your accomplishments, with your capabilities and your opportunities. That's why I've mentioned numerous times, don't worry if your school doesn't offer the IB program and only SOME AP classes. Don't worry if your school is small and doesn't offer MAIN varsity sports like football. Part of your application needs to be stressing how you did the MOST with what you HAVE TO WORK WITH. The 3.6gps applicant who ONLY HAD Honor's classes available, will get a better WCS score in that area, than the 3.9 applicant who had AP, Honors, and IB classes available and DIDN'T TAKE ANY OF THEM!!! But sometimes, the academy and your ALO doesn't always KNOW YOUR LIMITATIONS. That's where you have to see this as a JOB INTERVIEW OF YOUR LIFE, and SELL YOURSELF. If you couldn't do sports and activities, because you had to take care of raising your little sister and brother so your single mom could work 2 jobs to feed you; YOU NEED TO TELL this to the academy and your ALO. This isn't the time to be HUMBLE. They will know if you had AP, IB, honor classes. But they won't know about your extra curricular limitations unless you tell them. And this isn't to say you should be thinking of excuses of WHY you couldn't do some things. We, (ALO's) have heard all the EXCUSES. If a limitation is legitimate, we'll confirm it. If it's an EXCUSE, we'll know it.

People have to realize, for every limitation or conflict you had to overcome, there is someone out there THAT OVERCAME MORE!!! You are competing with kids who had no AP/IB type classes available, so they took night or summer courses at the community college. At the same time, they were involved in 1-2 varsity sports per year; where they became the captain. At the same time, they are working on weekends to contribute money to the family income. And they are helping their neighbors and community who are in need. Yes, there are some applicants that had ALL of the OPPORTUNITIES a kid could want. Some don't have many opportunities at all. Unfortunately, most kids have a lot more opportunities than they realize, but they have MORE EXCUSES than they should.

Just do the best, with what you have, and that's all you can be expected to do. Best of luck.
 
This is the USAFA forum, and although my son earned an appointment to USAFA, he doesn't go there and I'm not as in tune with that admissions formula so I certainly won't correct anything christcorp said as it is valuable information, but the WCS at USMA I think is even more objectively scored. I don't believe any actual points are given for the FFR interview, or for things like community service. The CFA is worth 10% of the total score, and the better you do the higher your score. Not strictly a pass/fail.

I agree that there certainly is subjectivity in the admissions evaluation process; not as much in the candidate scoring, however, but in the determination as to which candidate they will take, as the academy isn't required to award all spots to the candidates with the highest WCS. A candidate from an under-represented class may be awarded a spot over someone who isn't, even with a lower WCS. Or the people making the decisions may see something in someone's record or history which causes them concern about character, or something else which leads to that person not getting an appointment, even with a very high WCS.

All the candidates can do, regardless of the process, is build that score as high as they can. The ACT is the best way to do that because it carries so much weight.

As to HS counselors, I agree again with christcorp. Some are fantastic, and very knowledgeable. Others are clueless when it comes to the academies. I think unless they have had several students go through the process, or are willing to take the time and learn, they are prove to misguiding a student. Any counselor who suggests only taking the tests twice is clueless.
 
....another point which deserves emphasis. Each academies website breaks this stuff down pretty good. And after experiencing the entire process vicariously through my son last year as he applied (with success) to three academies, I can say that USAFA provides the best online breakdown by far, and my son found USAFA's admissions team very excellent to deal with. I am a "Go Army" guy, but have been very impressed with AFA in all respects, and have nothing but good things to say about them (except during Army/Air Force week). Navy on the other hand......
 
DS had a 29 in 7th grade, but by sophomore year of HS he brought it up to a 36, but I have no idea how you think this helps. The admissions boards at all of the academies look for more than a test score. Give them your absolute best. If it's not a 36, take it again until you can't take it.
 
brovol said:
....another point which deserves emphasis. Each academies website breaks this stuff down pretty good. And after experiencing the entire process vicariously through my son last year as he applied (with success) to three academies, I can say that USAFA provides the best online breakdown by far, and my son found USAFA's admissions team very excellent to deal with. I am a "Go Army" guy, but have been very impressed with AFA in all respects, and have nothing but good things to say about them (except during Army/Air Force week). Navy on the other hand......
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Totally agree with your comments on USAFA. I have experience in HS Counseling and College Admissions. My DD was appointed for class of 2021 (uber excited). She applied to USCGA and Navy as well. Still waiting to hear from them but our experience with AF has been seamless. They are really on top of the admissions process and providing information both on their website and by phone.
 
Don't forget that your test scores should naturally increase as you advance in HS - a spring test now should score better than last fall. DS took his 2nd ACT June of his Jr. year and saw a nice bump up in 2 of the categories vs. the Feb test. [Remember ACT theoretically measures what you have already learned; SAT looks at aptitude for future learning.]

You should see a big jump from 10th to 11th grade; the PSAT taken in 10th grade includes a projected SAT score for 11th graders based on this.
Unless you take summer courses or test prep I'm not sure a Sept test will be that much different vs previous spring but who knows.

As stated above for SAs there is ZERO RISK to taking the tests again. If you are paranoid just wait and send your scores later; its only about $12.
 
Do a prep class during the summer or independent study during the summer so that you are warmed up, improved and ready for the September test.
 
VelveteenR said:
Well, no. The policy of the college counseling office at our son's high school was no more than two attempts at either test. They've been in the business of preparing students for top colleges for over a century and a half. I'm not here to argue about HS policies, merely to point out that students who perform well in a single sitting don't need to chase points; they've proven they can do the work and time is better spent elsewhere. Anyone who doesn't agree is free to repeat tests as many times as they want. My comments are not targeted at those who need to get their scores into the competitive range but, as so many here can attest, you do not need perfect scores to be admitted to a service academy.
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Personally, I wouldn't allow a high school counselor to limit the number of times our son or daughter was allowed to take their ACT test because that's not their decision. I'd present the logic as to why that was less than ideal advice. Smart counselors who understand logic would bend their policies for the good of the student. If they didn't, then they are not-so-smart (or lazy) counselors.

With that said, either a student can control when and where their ACT scores gets released or not. And the answer is known; you can. I'd also stress as Christcorp accurately suggested, people attempting to control who gets what score needs to add a caveat; your counselor has to be in the loop so that they don't go in autopilot and sent everything to everyone.

For USAFA, and independent with getting into the SA, "chasing a higher point of two" still adds value for some. But my following point assumes the incoming cadet is interested in the Scholars program. In case those who are reading this didn't know, the ACT score is used as part of the algorithm in determining something called an “Academic Composite Score”. This internal USAFA generated score is calculated by admissions in an effort to predict the academic success of the student. Hence, the higher the ACT is (by chasing a couple of points) adds to the composite score points. About 60 students out of the 1,xxxx class per year are asked if they would like to apply and some decline. Other can apply, but the Academic Composite Score is the main criteria.

For those who do not know, the Scholars program is a small group of cadets that are groomed to apply for scholarships like the Rhodes, Marshall, and others. Statistically speaking, the Scholars program participants are often recipients / placed in the top rated graduate and medical school programs. That's not to say others who elected not to participate don't get into the most competitive programs offered like MIT/Harvard. They do. But that program helps.

I predict your HS counselor has no working knowledge of what I just mentioned which is understandable. But it's why I think it's smart to chase points. Because you never know when those extra points help when a student is borderline for attending a specific school or even a program. But if chasing points causes you to fall short in other areas, it's not smart.
 
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Sorry to knock counselors but do NOT put your destiny in someone else's hands. Take their opinion but make your own decisions.
I have a sore spot for how counseling has devolved from targeting highest possible aspirations to 'its all OK - don't worry.'

You will get 100% better advice for SA prep on these forums than from the average HS counselor.
 
brovol said:
The problem is though that an applicant does not know what scores he/she might need to get an appointment, and theoretically could need perfection if the competition in that district is so high that the candidate needs to match, all other things being equal. The other element is that all candidates are not necessarily measured by the same standard, and that a white male competing within the NWL may need a higher ACT score than a nonwhite male or female.

My son was told last year by a West Point RC that to be the leader in our district he needed to get to a 31 on his ACT, and have a great CFA. He told us that there was a female reaplicant who had a 30 ACT, and although the rest of her resume wasn't as good, she was the leader in the clubhouse, and if my son wanted to win that particular spot, he should shoot for the 31. He ended with a 32, with 34s in math and science.

My son didn't study for a 31 or a 32 on the ACT. He studied to do as well on the dumb test as he possibly could, and every time he looked at the scores he got on an ACT there was no particular score that he couldn't imagine, be that high or low. And I think that is how it is with most kids. Some of the great subscores he got on ACT tests were because he just felt he knew the material and performed well as a result; and then a couple were, as he put it, the grace of God, friggin luck (he got the 34 in science on his last exam, never had a science sore over 28 prior to that, and had no inclination that he did well on that test). But all a kid can do is work as hard as possible to get the best scores possible.
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I will leave the group with this on the subject of test scores and let people use the information to make up their own decisions. It is clear that we agree on some points and disagree on others. I think the best advice to candidates and there parents is to understand how the process works for the majority of candidates and that is through the competitive slate process. There are always a few exceptions like the example MN-Dad-2016 uses, but most kids know if they have what it takes to be a Rhode Scholar and are doing those things anyway. The WCS is used to decide slate winners and for the most part does a very good job in ensuring the best and brightest are selected. There will always be deserving kids that do not get an appointment because the academies are bound by Federal Code to follow certain steps.

If a candidate does a true self-evaluation, they will know how there test scores, GPA, leadership etc stacks up against other potential applicants. With that evaluation, they need to look in the mirror and honestly assess where they can improve. They do not need this forum or anyone else telling them that they are worthy or not. We need to remember while the kids applying to the academies are usually exceptional; they still need to chase their passions and live their lives. If they can honestly look in the mirror and say "I have done everything I can do" then there is no point in chasing a point or two on anything. They should focus on other areas where they have a passion and think they can do better. I have helped my DD navigate this process for over two years with help and guidance from friends and classmates and have a pretty good understanding of how the process works. My DD had a strong application in the prior year and did not get an offer due to a principal nominee. She did not chase a point here or there to try to improve her application but instead put all of her efforts in her future, doing well in pre-med college classes, participating in ROTC and being an DIV I athlete. Those things have a bigger impact on her WCS if she applied again but would also support her future goals and passions if she decided to remain at her regular college.

There are two things in the above post that I do not necessarily agree with and feel strongly enough that I must add something. All candidates are evaluated against the same standard in terms of the WCS development. The WCS is used to determine who will win each competitive slate. Christcorp explained the development earlier in the post but it is mostly objective. The next 150 candidates off the NWL have to be chosen by this score as well. Once all of the competitive slates and the NWL candidates are identified, then they will start looking at diversity goals to fill the class. The WCS may be used to help rank individuals in those categories but it is not the primary driver for these selections. There was a post a few days ago that showed the class stats of 2016 and close to 75% on the other appointees where recruited athletes. The remaining few appointments will be given to help meet the rest of the diversity goals and diversity means more than just sex or race. So if you are a white male from a middle class background whose parents attended college, the likely hood of making it as an additional appointee is not very good but the services needs this diversity as the officer corps needs to be representative of the soldiers they lead. I would also tell you that being a white female recruited athlete from the same middle class background was not enough to get an offer last year as an additional appointee.

It looks like your RC gave your son some great feedback but you are only focusing on one of the pieces of information. The piece of information with the most impact is that she as a re-applicant, not necessarily that she was a female. The Academic portion of the WCS gives a great advantage to college applicants as it is not available to high school students. You son would need to have higher test scores and class rank to overcome the boost she got from her semester of college. I am glad that it worked out for your son and hope he is doing well.

BTW, it only took my DD two days to decide that she would give up her plush country club college to start over and chase her dream of going to West Point and being an Army officer. Beat Navy!
 
USMA 1994 said:
There are always a few exceptions like the example MN-Dad-2016 uses, but most kids know if they have what it takes to be a Rhode Scholar and are doing those things anyway.
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I'm not so sure about that.... If you asked our son if he felt he had a chance to be a finalist, I know the thought would have never entered his brain. After all, he was struggling to get his ACT score up by taking it multiple times, taking ACT programs in order to learn how to test faster, etc. It was USAFA's exceptional instructors and mentoring that planted the seed which later helped him be picked as a finalist.

Doors open other doors, which opened up even more doors. IMHO, (I don't make the rules), higher ACT scores open doors. Schools that limit the amount of ACT tests taken IMHO, are going to trim SOME students true potential. I would not participate or agree with that logic.
 
Remember too, there are only so many hours in a day. On more than one occasion, I have recommended to an applicant, that they forego any further act or sat testing, so they could concentrate on other areas that they needed work on. Usually leadership type activities. I know other ALO's who have done the same. But mind you, these aren't usually the 28 ACT scorers. The 3 times I recommended settling for the scores they had, were individuals who had 31-32 or higher ACT score, BUT ALSO had 4.0 gpa in the IB program or almost all AP classes. In this case, their academics weren't going to go up much getting a 36 on an act test.

But these individuals were weak in leadership, sports, cfa, volunteering, and/or other areas. Except for the physical fitness and medical evals, the academies aren't much different than most other highly sought after schools. Those schools also want to see leadership, community service, sports or other team activities, clubs, etc. It may sound cold, but I've asked every applicant I've interviewed, if they thought they were good enough to get into Harvard, Yale, USC, mit, and similar schools. If they don't think they are good enough to get in there, then there's no reason they should think they are good enough to get into one of the military academies. Some think they're good enough, but can't afford it. That's different. There's ways around financial hurdles. But at least they are thinking the right way.

But unless you're part of the no-brainer crowd, you should be taking the act and/or sat tests as many times as possible for the academies. And those who are in the no brainer crowd, usually know who they are. It's not arrogance, but if your top 5 schools, including the academies, include the Ivy and prestigious type schools that are highly competitive, then you're probably in that crowd.

That's not to say those who apply to the academies but don't apply to the top tier schools are sub par. Most times they aren't applying to those top tier schools because of ignorance. They usually think they can't afford it, so they don't consider it. I can honestly say, that approximately 80-85% of those receiving an appointment to one of the academies, probably would have been competitive applying to a top tier school if they wanted to. Most simply don't realize that it's possible.
 
USMA 1994 said:
I will leave the group with this on the subject of test scores and let people use the information to make up their own decisions. It is clear that we agree on some points and disagree on others. I think the best advice to candidates and there parents is to understand how the process works for the majority of candidates and that is through the competitive slate process. There are always a few exceptions like the example MN-Dad-2016 uses, but most kids know if they have what it takes to be a Rhode Scholar and are doing those things anyway. The WCS is used to decide slate winners and for the most part does a very good job in ensuring the best and brightest are selected. There will always be deserving kids that do not get an appointment because the academies are bound by Federal Code to follow certain steps.

If a candidate does a true self-evaluation, they will know how there test scores, GPA, leadership etc stacks up against other potential applicants. With that evaluation, they need to look in the mirror and honestly assess where they can improve. They do not need this forum or anyone else telling them that they are worthy or not. We need to remember while the kids applying to the academies are usually exceptional; they still need to chase their passions and live their lives. If they can honestly look in the mirror and say "I have done everything I can do" then there is no point in chasing a point or two on anything. They should focus on other areas where they have a passion and think they can do better. I have helped my DD navigate this process for over two years with help and guidance from friends and classmates and have a pretty good understanding of how the process works. My DD had a strong application in the prior year and did not get an offer due to a principal nominee. She did not chase a point here or there to try to improve her application but instead put all of her efforts in her future, doing well in pre-med college classes, participating in ROTC and being an DIV I athlete. Those things have a bigger impact on her WCS if she applied again but would also support her future goals and passions if she decided to remain at her regular college.

There are two things in the above post that I do not necessarily agree with and feel strongly enough that I must add something. All candidates are evaluated against the same standard in terms of the WCS development. The WCS is used to determine who will win each competitive slate. Christcorp explained the development earlier in the post but it is mostly objective. The next 150 candidates off the NWL have to be chosen by this score as well. Once all of the competitive slates and the NWL candidates are identified, then they will start looking at diversity goals to fill the class. The WCS may be used to help rank individuals in those categories but it is not the primary driver for these selections. There was a post a few days ago that showed the class stats of 2016 and close to 75% on the other appointees where recruited athletes. The remaining few appointments will be given to help meet the rest of the diversity goals and diversity means more than just sex or race. So if you are a white male from a middle class background whose parents attended college, the likely hood of making it as an additional appointee is not very good but the services needs this diversity as the officer corps needs to be representative of the soldiers they lead. I would also tell you that being a white female recruited athlete from the same middle class background was not enough to get an offer last year as an additional appointee.

It looks like your RC gave your son some great feedback but you are only focusing on one of the pieces of information. The piece of information with the most impact is that she as a re-applicant, not necessarily that she was a female. The Academic portion of the WCS gives a great advantage to college applicants as it is not available to high school students. You son would need to have higher test scores and class rank to overcome the boost she got from her semester of college. I am glad that it worked out for your son and hope he is doing well.

BTW, it only took my DD two days to decide that she would give up her plush country club college to start over and chase her dream of going to West Point and being an Army officer. Beat Navy!
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All due respect, I agree with your assessment of how the WCS works. it is very objective, and in terms of scoring an applicant, everyone is treated exactly the same. It is more a mathematical formula than anything, and does not factor race, gender, or anything else. I said as much in my post. But if you are suggesting that the selection process itself, once the scores are in, does not consider race or gender, we strongly disagree. It does. I was not reporting what I concluded after a conversation with the USMA RC; I was reporting what HE said. The admissions office has certain goals in terms of underrepresented classes, and the reason those goals need to be set is because there are less women and minorities who apply to the academies than there are non-minority men. Look at the numbers of applicants in each category from the class profiles. If you took the top ten percent of applicants in each category (non-minority males, women, and minorities) each would have very comparable, and equally impressive resumes and admissions statistics (like ACT/SAT scores). However, because there are so many non-minority males who apply, the top quarter of applicants will have pretty impressive applications, and admissions does not even need to get into the next three quarters in order to fill most spots. The underrepresented classes have far less applications, and thus, less on the high end, middle and low end. The academies encourage and recruit more underrepresented class individuals to apply. This is not a kept secret, and there is nothing at all wrong with it.

I certainly cant speak to your DD's situation, and obviously don't know her application numbers. It sounds like she is an impressive young lady, and I am sure that is the case. Perhaps her first year she had a particularly strong candidate in front of her (which is likely the case). And we both agree that WP likes re-applicants, for good reason. And I dont even remotely suggest that for a woman to be admitted their numbers were less. I know that is not the case. But I also know that underrepresented applicants are desired as they achieve set goals.

Every candidate is scored objectively. then with that score admissions makes decisions in each of the competitive slates. It does not have to be that the highest WCS wins every slate. Other factors are considered.
 
Very interesting and insightful discussion on tests and frequency of taking them thus far. I would like to add that it is not necessarily the student who controls the release of test scores. In my DS school district, and I would assume state wide in FL, ALL standardized test scores to include SAT, ACT, FSA, FCAT, and whatever other alphabet tests they have taken in their high school career is on their transcripts - school automatically receives test scores as well as the State of Florida (FLSFA to be specific - to which is shared with any state school the student applies to). My DS HS transcripts are 15 pages long....extra postage required...unless some college is good enough to accept them via Parchment.
 
Yes and no. It is true that many high schools have test scores on the transcripts. But that doesn't necessarily mean they include all tests taken multiple times. Plus, a school can't just ask for someone's transcripts. The student must have them sent. And finally, universities only deal in official act and sat scores that are sent from college board or equivalent. They don't accept act or sat scores that are on your transcript. Not saying they won't see it if it's on your transcript, but the admissions office is busy and only process the official scores sent to the , not ones on your transcript.
 
Christcorp said:
Yes and no. It is true that many high schools have test scores on the transcripts. But that doesn't necessarily mean they include all tests taken multiple times. Plus, a school can't just ask for someone's transcripts. The student must have them sent. And finally, universities only deal in official act and sat scores that are sent from college board or equivalent. They don't accept act or sat scores that are on your transcript. Not saying they won't see it if it's on your transcript, but the admissions office is busy and only process the official scores sent to the , not ones on your transcript.
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I don't disagree entirely. The point being that if someone was applying to an institution and trying to mask test lower/earlier scores from an SA, for example, and only report their best effort, the transcript with scores will potentially show a history without the student intending it to. Not a factor with schools that superscore but could be in other cases already described.

Not sure how the SAs pull or receive scores because USAFA has double entries for DS scores although we only sent them once. As to whether a university will accept from sources other than college board, we have experience with two (one public and one private) that accepted the scores off the transcripts and made admissions decisions.

Perhaps Florida is the only state that universities do this....UF doesn't even want a transcript...its all self reported until accepted.

Obviously there are many different processes and procedures out there that HS and Universities use. Just trying to kill time in this quiet forum time...almost too quiet.
 
For those of you who seem concerned, ignorance would never be a word attributed to the college counseling office at our son's high school. The New England boarding schools have been in this business a long, long time; no one there is "coloring" in any corners. Our son got a stellar education along with stellar counseling and taking those tests once did not penalize him at any school he applied to. He must have just gotten lucky I guess. ;)

Carry on.
 
VelveteenR said:
For those of you who seem concerned, ignorance would never be a word attributed to the college counseling office at our son's high school. The New England boarding schools have been in this business a long, long time; no one there is "coloring" in any corners. Our son got a stellar education along with stellar counseling and taking those tests once did not penalize him at any school he applied to. He must have just gotten lucky I guess. ;)

Carry on.
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My philosophy is to listen to an expert's opinion and then compare their view with another perspective exclusively when I define the advice as critical. In this thread, I know your local expert will have counselors that disagree with him/her; ours did. Putting it another way and for the benefit of future thread readers, ask your HS counselor what's wrong with the idea of controlling which college gets what ACT score and when (as I laid out earlier). Then post their response and help us all learn why "only 2 ACT tests" make sense using that approach.

With that all said, ignorance is defined as the lack of knowledge. http://www.dictionary.com/browse/ignorance . I, like nearly everyone on this board, lacks the knowledge in the complex nature of SA admissions. Therefore, I'm the 1st to admit, I'm "ignorant" (a.k.a. lack knowledge) with various aspects of this entire SA process let alone the details of specific universities. I'll go out on a limb and suggest that a lot of posters on this board will have more knowledge on SA admissions than your specific counselor. So why take their advice as fact? To use an analogy, just because I went to the Mayo last week for medical advice (which I did) doesn't mean that they are automatically right because they are rated higher than the clinic down the street. Next up for me, a 2nd medical opinion.

Inadvertently, if I called your counselor "ignorant", that word carries a connotation that can be taken personal. Now, if your college counselor was also an ALO, I would suggest he/she was much more of an expert in relation to SA's. So IMHO, "one size fits all" advice is suspect; "elite" HS or not.

Most importantly, I'm honestly happy it worked out for you. :) The technique that our family employed also worked out for our college students (HMS AF doctor and pending Army dentist graduating from your fine state of AZ in June).
 
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