Disappointed

Well, so much for the reassurance...Based on the replies thus far, the reality check is that this is a byproduct of the age in which we now live. Teenagers (not to offend those who still are) have always been impulsive, but now impulsivity has access to technology, and we are experiencing a dangerous "transparency" emboldened by a cloak of anonymity.

Although we all want the "big hammer" to come down on all this, the truth is that fear of punishment will not prohibit this behavior. The only way to stop this is to increase respect for self and others. These offensive sites are just as much about disrespect as they are about sexual gratification.

You can bet most of these people wouldn't want their sisters or girlfriends posted, but once they break up and no longer respect them? What better way to show the world just how little respect they have for this person than to post nude pictures of her online? Even if a photo was initially shared willingly, posting it is the ultimate form of betrayal and disrespect.

Talking to three teens about this yesterday, I got the impression that sending nude photos to boyfriends (perhaps this is reciprocated - not sure) is almost like a "next step" in the progression of a relationship (at least in some circles). I said that I see this a lack of respect for oneself. The two girls with whom I was speaking didn't look like they got the self-respect part of what I was saying, but I think they did get the part about how sending a photo doesn't guarantee it will only be seen by the recipient, and about how this sort of thing could impact the career of a young officer.

An article I read quoted a female Marine who felt that training together from day one would make units stronger and generate more respect all the way around. I see value in that. I hope that even though the advancement of time and technology present greater opportunities for these negative sites to develop, that a conscientious effort and consistent modeling of respect for all persons by parents, teachers, coaches, and commanding officers will create an environment where young people moderate each other. That's really our only hope.

Thanks for the great thoughts, all. The cynic in me ties QA1517's comment about "defiant people" to what I posted earlier about the "double life" I see some kids living. The idealist in me wants to see MU-type sites return to the way of "small private groups [that] rarely saw the light of day" that jcleppe mentioned. The optimist in me hopes with Day-Tripper that "In 20 years, when they are fathers of teenage girls, they will undoubtedly regret the decisions they've made. Most will have led upstanding lives in the interim."

Despite this "broad dirty brush," this forum proves to me that the military is still filled with honorable people like my dad, and I hope my DD is fortunate enough to follow in his footsteps. May she and all the other DS/DDs represented here continue to champion the cause of modeling respect for self, others, and country in every area of their lives.
 
The outrage over this incident, or series of incidents, is certainly appropriate.

But perspective is needed.

But this is not My Lai. Hundreds of absolutely innocent & unarmed Vietnamese civilians were butchered over an hour or so by young American GIs aged between 18-24.

It is not Abu Grahib. A generation of Iraqis, hell maybe several generations, had their opinion of Americans turned negative, hostile or even violent by the images there. It marked the turning point of the American occupation, in a bad way.

It is not even Tailhook. Female Naval personnel numbering almost 100 were physically assaulted by drunken male (Navy & Marines) "comrades" over several extremely drunken hours in Las Vegas in 1991. The offenders were entirely commissioned officers, not high-school dropout enlisted personnel.

Absent digital photography and the internet, the current scandal breaks down to a lot of immature guys (whom probably are without real-life girlfriends) doing a lot of big-guy talking, cyber-style. Unfortunately, unlike a lot of BS over a few beers at e-club in my day, the same attitudes in 2017 have caused a major scandal.

Maybe that's progress. Expose harmful speech and such.

But let's remember, no one was raped, or otherwise physically harmed or killed.

This isn't like soldiers of the Syrian army dunking people's heads into buckets of gasoline and then lighting them on fire. Which happens almost every day.

As a father of three sons and a male myself, I must confess I might feel more strongly if I had daughters. If I wasn't a former Marine, I might not feel as defensive either.
 
Day-Tripper said:
The outrage over this incident, or series of incidents, is certainly appropriate.

But perspective is needed.

But this is not My Lai. Hundreds of absolutely innocent & unarmed Vietnamese civilians were butchered over an hour or so by young American GIs aged between 18-24.

It is not Abu Grahib. A generation of Iraqis, hell maybe several generations, had their opinion of Americans turned negative, hostile or even violent by the images there. It marked the turning point of the American occupation, in a bad way.

It is not even Tailhook. Female Naval personnel numbering almost 100 were physically assaulted by drunken male (Navy & Marines) "comrades" over several extremely drunken hours in Las Vegas in 1991. The offenders were entirely commissioned officers, not high-school dropout enlisted personnel.

Absent digital photography and the internet, the current scandal breaks down to a lot of immature guys (whom probably are without real-life girlfriends) doing a lot of big-guy talking, cyber-style. Unfortunately, unlike a lot of BS over a few beers at e-club in my day, the same attitudes in 2017 have caused a major scandal.

Maybe that's progress. Expose harmful speech and such.

But let's remember, no one was raped, or otherwise physically harmed or killed.

This isn't like soldiers of the Syrian army dunking people's heads into buckets of gasoline and then lighting them on fire. Which happens almost every day.

As a father of three sons and a male myself, I must confess I might feel more strongly if I had daughters. If I wasn't a former Marine, I might not feel as defensive either.
Click to expand...





As a mother of 3 (2 daughters and a son), I respectively add that I can be horrified at your incidents mentioned above and also outraged at this latest. When my angelic kids get in trouble and say "well at least it's not as bad as what my friend Joey did last week", my response is "this is not about outcomes, this is about expectations." My expectations for those serving our great country are high. I refuse to believe that they cannot meet those expectations.
So glad no one was assaulted or raped or burned or tortured but it's still not OK.
Lastly, If your mother or sister or cousin had to serve or lead those "immature guys" who have now seen her in less than professional attire, you may feel differently.
 
I have both a daughter and a son that serve. I have found it interesting that my son has expressed more disappointed and outrage over this than my daughter. His "perspective" may be a factor of his little sister's service but would like to think he is just an honorable guy.
 
I have a daughter that is a freshman in ROTC and will be moving on to West Point next year. Early in this entire process my wife talked about the culture and environment for women as a reason not to attend West Point.

I told her that the culture that makes up of the services is very similar to the culture of all Americans as the services are just a subset of the population. I also told her that the officer corps is a better overall group of individuals than the normal population and they would do a better job at protecting and policing there own. Bad things can happen anywhere but I truly feel that the cadets and fellow officers will do a better job protecting their brothers and sisters from harm. I can actually say that I never saw anything that came close to sexual assault and I as well as 99.9% of my classmates would have stopped it. I feel my daughter is safer at a Service Academy than she is at a normal college.

Now there where jokes and behind the behind the back comments between the cadets and they have evolved into the types of issues we see today. As I have matured, I realize that these are also a form of sexual harassment and are not acceptable. Rome was not built in a day though and I think we have come along way into being a more inclusive country. We need to keep educating our children and teaching them the appropriate values.
 
ktnatalk said:
Finally. An admiral with a clearance pulled while sitting in that job is as useful as a ( ). Feel free to fill in the blank.
Click to expand...

They will be made an example of, if flag officers being publicly arrested and actual prison sentences being handed down are any indication of things to come. These are all civilian proceedings. After those are done. Navy can consider recalling retired members back to active duty for court martial or administrative proceedings on charges not covered by civilian law - the always-handy "prejudicial to good order and discipline" and "bringing discredit to the service." And, "knew or should have known" will get many.

All senior officers get briefings and ethics training. All day meeting with your contractor at his office, they bring in Subway sandwiches and iced tea, ok. Ossetra caviar, working ladies, wine? Uh, no.
 
The Navy 7th Fleet-Fat Leonard Scandal, if you feel like plowing through the investigation specifics and charges of this latest group arrested:

https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/948061/download

If allegations are true, they knew exactly what they were doing, did it deliberately and recruited others to drink the KoolAid. Sorry - drink the Cristal Champagne (I had a glass in France once), the Remy Cognac, eat the Ossetra caviar/lobster, smoke the Cohibas, sleep in the 5-star harbor view suites, exercise with paid exercise partners.

@brovol for your professional review: are their foie gras gooses cooked?
 
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