Benefits of attending a Senior Military College ROTC vs regular civilian college ROTC

Major_Jared said:
What about getting active duty, though?
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A SMC will give you the opportunity to go Active Duty even if you fall below the Active Duty Cutoff as long as you still get the PMS recommendation. Just realize that if you are that low on the OML that you need the SMC to get you AD, the SMC will not help in branching. Branching is done at the national level and you will be on the same branching OML as every ROTC cadet in the country. If your goal is Infantry then you would need to be higher on the list and if you're high enough to get infantry then you would be high enough to get AD from a non SMC school.
 
VMI2017+3 said:
That's correct. They're "campus based" because the application is submitted through your unit chain of command.
VMI is unique because (this is as it was described by my PNS, I don't know exact details) any extra contracts for each class (as in class of 2018 for example) that aren't filled by a certain point in time approaching graduation and/or became unfilled by people losing their contract go to the VMI ROTC unit to give to VMI cadets in order to fill those slots. The Army unit here has recently been picking up 2/c cadets (class of 2018) on those contracts.
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Hey thanks for all the information, but can you answer this question?

Since you're already at an SMC, do you know whether the majority of cadets that request for active duty get it?

I understand that if you perform horribly academically (bad GPA) and in ROTC (low APFT score), then that person will probably not receive active duty even at an SMC.

But if you perform average and meet the minimum/necessary requirements, is it hard to get that PMS recommendation? I'm curious how many cadets request active duty but are denied at an SMC.
 
Jcleppe said:
Major_Jared said:
What about getting active duty, though?
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A SMC will give you the opportunity to go Active Duty even if you fall below the Active Duty Cutoff as long as you still get the PMS recommendation. Just realize that if you are that low on the OML that you need the SMC to get you AD, the SMC will not help in branching. Branching is done at the national level and you will be on the same branching OML as every ROTC cadet in the country. If your goal is Infantry then you would need to be higher on the list and if you're high enough to get infantry then you would be high enough to get AD from a non SMC school.
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I see. I guess if you have an above 3.0 GPA and excellent APFT scores, and perform relatively well at ROTC activities, will getting that PMS recommendation be difficult at an SMC?
 
Major_Jared said:
I see. I guess if you have an above 3.0 GPA and excellent APFT scores, will getting that PMS recommendation be difficult at an SMC?
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If you have above a 3.0 and an excellent APFT you would likely be above the AD Cutoff and make Active Duty at a traditional ROTC battalion as well as a SMC.
 
Jcleppe said:
Major_Jared said:
I see. I guess if you have an above 3.0 GPA and excellent APFT scores, will getting that PMS recommendation be difficult at an SMC?
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If you have above a 3.0 and an excellent APFT you would likely be above the AD Cutoff and make Active Duty at a traditional ROTC battalion as well as a SMC.
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I know that between 2011-2015, the Army went through downsizing/shrinking so getting AD was much harder even those with good scores. Thank's to Trump, he'll be increasing the strength of the military. Do you think in the class of 2021, the Army will not be downsizing like they did in the past few years? I hope not.
 
Major_Jared said:
Hey thanks for all the information, but can you answer this question?

Since you're already at an SMC, do you know whether the majority of cadets that request for active duty get it?

I understand that if you perform horribly academically (bad GPA) and in ROTC (low APFT score), then that person will probably not receive active duty even at an SMC.

But if you perform average and meet the minimum/necessary requirements, is it hard to get that PMS recommendation? I'm curious how many cadets request active duty but are denied at an SMC.
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So I don't have statistics on how many people wanted AD but didn't get it. I haven't heard of anyone getting stuck in reserve forces that didn't ask for it, but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened. Also, it's going to depend on who the PMS is obviously.
 
Major_Jared said:
I know that between 2011-2015, the Army went through downsizing/shrinking so getting AD was much harder even those with good scores. Thank's to Trump, he'll be increasing the strength of the military. Do you think in the class of 2021, the Army will not be downsizing like they did in the past few years? I hope not.
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In reality the Army has been commissioning nearly the same number of Active Duty officers each year for a while. The average has been about 75% +- that wanted Active Duty received it. The number of cadets is not the issue, it is how those cadets perform each year, one year the average GPA may be 3.2, the next it may be 3.4, it depends on how that year's cadets do in school.

Don't be so quick to thank the President, increasing the military budget is only his proposal, the President does not make the budget, that's the job of Congress. On top of that the Army has planned at least 4 years ahead on how many new officers they will take for Active Duty. That number can change a bit each year just as it did this year when they added an extra 200 or so cadets to AD after the initial accessions had been completed.
 
VMI2017+3 said:
So I don't have statistics on how many people wanted AD but didn't get it. I haven't heard of anyone getting stuck in reserve forces that didn't ask for it, but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened. Also, it's going to depend on who the PMS is obviously.
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Are you pursuing a Navy ROTC scholarship? I read somewhere that since Navy and the Air Force doesn't have a reserve, unlike the Army, all contracted or on scholarship cadets will go active duty. Is this true?
 
Major_Jared said:
Are you pursuing a Navy ROTC scholarship? I read somewhere that since Navy and the Air Force doesn't have a reserve, unlike the Army, all contracted or on scholarship cadets will go active duty. Is this true?
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The Air Force has a reserve and a national guard. There is also a Navy Reserve. NROTC and AFROTC only commission cadets/MIDNs into AD though.
 
Jcleppe said:
In reality the Army has been commissioning nearly the same number of Active Duty officers each year for a while. The average has been about 75% +- that wanted Active Duty received it.
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What about for an SMC? I'm assuming that that number (75% wanting active duty got active duty) is higher.
 
Major_Jared said:
What about for an SMC? I'm assuming that that number (75% wanting active duty got active duty) is higher.
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I'm going to try and be gentle here.

If you are this concerned about making Active Duty and where you should go based on whether it will be easier to get Active Duty, you need to give some serious thought to whether your making the right choice in starting down this path at all.

To be honest, I'd spend less time trying to figure out the easiest way to get Active Duty and start thinking about what you need to do to be successful in both school and ROTC.
 
Jcleppe said:
I'm going to try and be gentle here.

If you are this concerned about making Active Duty and where you should go based on whether it will be easier to get Active Duty, you need to give some serious thought to whether your making the right choice in starting down this path at all.

To be honest, I'd spend less time trying to figure out the easiest way to get Active Duty and start thinking about what you need to do to be successful in both school and ROTC.
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Well, I want to know the difference between how cadets at civilian ROTC and SMC are offered active duty. College is a big investment, so understandably I will have many questions.
I know I want to do ROTC and make the military out of my career.
 
Major_Jared said:
Jcleppe said:
I'm going to try and be gentle here.

If you are this concerned about making Active Duty and where you should go based on whether it will be easier to get Active Duty, you need to give some serious thought to whether your making the right choice in starting down this path at all.

To be honest, I'd spend less time trying to figure out the easiest way to get Active Duty and start thinking about what you need to do to be successful in both school and ROTC.
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Well, I want to know the difference between how cadets at civilian ROTC and SMC are offered active duty. College is a big investment, so understandably I will have many questions.
I know I want to do ROTC and make the military out of my career.
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Major_Jared - '... how cadets at civilian ROTC and SMC are offered active duty... ' This has been explained numerous times. The basics are the same regardless of ROTC or SMC. You apply, an OML is created based on three years of performance with all others nationally, those above the line needed for AD are granted AD. A small number below the line are granted AD from SMC's if recommended by their PMS.

There is not a '... difference between how cadets at civilian ROTC and SMC are offered active duty ...' with the exception of those below the AD line at an SMC with PMS recommendation. It is based on your performance academically, physically, and as a leader.

Don't aspire to AD from an SMC below the AD line. If academic performance, physical readiness or emotional maturity are low participants will struggle at an SMC or regular ROTC. There are no 100% guarantees and luckily for the soldiers you might lead, 'needs of the service' will prevail.

You are aware that once in the military your performance is reviewed periodically and not all are retained for a career on AD right?

Edit: Tried to change a sentence above to If academic performance, physical readiness or emotional maturity are low participants will struggle at an SMC or regular ROTC.
 
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AROTC Parent said:
Major_Jared said:
Jcleppe said:
There is not a '... difference between how cadets at civilian ROTC and SMC are offered active duty ...' with the exception of those below the AD line at an SMC with PMS recommendation. It is based on your performance academically, physically, and as a leader.

AROTC Parent's comments are mostly on point. At an SMC, Army ROTC Cadets must in addition to being recommended by the PMS, successfully complete the ROTC Program and be medically and physically qualified for active duty. The successful completion and rcommendation of the PMS are key and in practice cadets are measured against the other cadets in the Cadet Command - especially for branch selection. Those at SMCs who don't make it, however, are relatively few as cadets self select during their four years. At SMCs unlike at civilian schools with ROTC Programs, all Cadets are required to remain in ROTC and typically the Army ROTC Program is the default program - even though they have no intention of commissioning. Today less than half of SMC graduates enter the military as there are too many other opportunities. So there is the great possibility there are juniors and seniors on the cusp who decide late they do want a contract and frankly are not qualified. They typically are the ones who do not receive a recommendation from the PMS. Technically, at an SMC, those in the Army Program who meet the minimum academic requirements and receive the recommendation of their PMS at SMCs, are required by law to be offered active duty. In practice, the process of selection is similar to those in civilian school ROTC Programs, and cadets pretty much know by their Senior year if they are going to be selected.
Below is the US Code of Laws provision providing for active duty if recommended by the PMS:
10 USC 2111(a) Support for ROTC
(e)Assignment to Active Duty.—
(1)
The Secretary of the Army shall ensure that a graduate of a senior military college who desires to serve as a commissioned officer on active duty upon graduation from the college, who is medically and physically qualified for active duty, and who is recommended for such duty by the professor of military science at the college, shall be assigned to active duty.
(2)
Nothing in this section shall be construed to prohibit the Secretary of the Army from requiring a member of the program who graduates from a senior military college to serve on active duty.
(f)Senior Military Colleges.—The senior military colleges are the following:
(1)
Texas A&M University.
(2)
Norwich University.
(3)
The Virginia Military Institute.
(4)
The Citadel.
(5)
Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University.
(6)
The University of North Georgia.

(e)Assignment to Active Duty.—
Pub. L. 104–106, div. A, title V, § 545(a), Feb. 10, 1996, 110 Stat. 317; amended Pub. L. 105–85, div. A, title V, § 544(d)–(f)(1), Nov. 18, 1997, 111 Stat. 1745, 1746; Pub. L. 106–65, div. A, title V, § 541(c), Oct. 5, 1999, 113 Stat. 607; Pub. L. 113–66, div. A, title V, § 583, Dec. 26, 2013, 127 Stat. 776.)
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At my son's SMC this year cadets below the line did not receive the required PMS recommendation and did not receive active duty.
Since that happened several have since been offered active duty by Cadet Command.
In fact I read on this forum that Cadets may not be able to chose Reserve due to the impending ramp up.
If you want active duty get a good GPA and APFT.
 
Major_Jared said:
kinnem said:
Pick a college you will thrive at. If it's an SMC, great. If it's a "civilian" college that's great too. Terrific officers come out of both paths, and in the end much depends on your standing on the OML. If you're not high enough the SMC ROTC commander will not recommend you, and the "guarantee" requires that recommendation. If you go to a reglar college, do well academically, do well in ROTC, and keep your nose clean you'll get your active duty wish and have all the tools you need to command your first platoon.

Pick your lifestyle and college and go for it based on what you think you would enjoy over the next 4 years.
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I understand that if you perform horribly academically (bad GPA) and in ROTC (low APFT score), then that person will not receive active duty even at an SMC.

If you perform average and meet the minimum/necessary requirements, is it hard to get that PMS recommendation? I'm curious how many cadets request active duty but are denied at an SMC.
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You seem to think that getting active duty is going to come from somewhere other than your own hard work, motivation, ability to lead and ability to play well with others. To the contrary, it will only come from these things - no matter where you go to college. If you don't measure up, you won't get active duty, no matter where you go to college. And if you don't meet minimum standards, you won't commission no matter where you go to college.
 
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