2019 USMA Cadet Court Martialed

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1337BeachedWhale1337 said:
By that logic, the evidence I have for OJ Simpson's innocence is the court ruling that he was innocent. That is irrefutable evidence that he is innocent.
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Not quite. A court verdict is not "guilty" or "innocent", it is "guilty" or "not guilty", ie 'not proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt'. Scottish courts actually have the verdict "Not proven".
 
1337BeachedWhale1337 said:
I have stated multiple times that I believe that the male cadet is most likely guilty. Look at Brian Banks. If everyone had just blindly believed the "victim", Banks would still be serving his sentence today. I see nothing morally wrong with not blindly trusting what a proposed victim says; if we did this, wrongful convictions would never be resolved. If my words offended you, I apologize for that. However, I don't think it is right to refuse even let the thought of a wrongful conviction cross our minds, especially in a case like this where evidence is far from abundant. I think Brian would agree with that sentiment.
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You need to get with the program and accept that the "institutional misogyny" and "toxic masculinity" at USMA is why this sexual assault happened. Clearly, that's were the blame should rest. CDT Whisenhunt was probably a paragon of chivalry when he arrived there, before he tragically fell victim to the dark influence of the patriarchy. The sooner you get on board, the further you'll go in the army. Hopefully, the female First Captain you'll arrive to in August will whip you into shape and set you on the path to righteousness.
 
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mmb5 said:
Not quite. A court verdict is not "guilty" or "innocent", it is "guilty" or "not guilty", ie 'not proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt'. Scottish courts actually have the verdict "Not proven".
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I was actually going to use the Scottish "not proven" analogy.
 
Sledge said:
You need to get with the program and accept that the "institutionaly misogyny" and "toxic masculinity" at USMA is why this sexual assault happened. Clearly, that's were the blame should rest. CDT Whisenhunt was probably a paragon of chivalry when he arrived there, before he tragically fell victim to the dark influence of the patriarchy. The sooner you get on board, the further you'll go in the army. Hopefully, the female First Captain you'll arrive to in August will whip you into shape and set you on the path to righteousness.
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The "police" are going to get you brother. I'll be there to bail you out though.
 
xyz321 said:
I appreciate that you don't intend to offend. What I have tried to make clear is that in sexual assault cases specifically, 6 of 1000 possible offenders are convicted. A wrongful conviction is the needle in the proverbial haystack of offenders that got away with it. Why are you having such trouble accepting this verdict? Truly asking, not being sarcastic. I just don't see it
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I would have trouble accepting any verdict in which the only evidence for conviction that I am can see is what was said by the victim, doesn't matter what the crime was.
brovol said:
Wrong again whale. While a conviction is conclusive proof that the defendant is guilty, an acquittal is not proof of innocence. It simply means that the defendant was not found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. In the civil case against OJ, for example, the plaintiff prevailed because the standard of proof was preponderance of evidence.

I think perhaps if you read a book or two you could get caught up to speed on this. Until then, again, I encourage you to leave it alone. You continue to speak out of school.
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Great, you know more about legal stuff than me. That doesn't eliminate your logical fallacies.

brovol said:
Lol. What evidence do I have that he is guilty? The conviction last week. Indeed, a certified conviction is irrefutable evidence that the defendant committed the crime, and is accepted as a matter of law in every court in the country.
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By that logic, 5 years ago one could have said George Stinney was guilty based solely on his conviction, and that his conviction was irrefutable evidence that he raped those people. 5 years ago it was irrefutable that George Stinney committed rape according to your logic. Clearly, it was not irrefutable evidence like you say, because he had his conviction vacated.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Stinney
 
Wrongly stated that George Stinney was convicted for rape, he was actually convicted for murder^ Same principle holds true.
 
Exactly. Not the same. And the murder victim was not around to testify. The rape victim is. Clearly the jury believed her. Why don't you?
 
1337BeachedWhale1337 said:
I would question the validity of any verdict in which the only evidence for conviction that I am can see is what was said by the victim, doesn't matter what the crime was.
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Question any verdict if you must, but I hope you can be fair to those future soldiers under your leadership/care who are victims of rape/sexual assault but without bruises, video, or witnesses.
 
xyz321 said:
Exactly. Not the same. And the murder victim was not around to testify. The rape victim is. Clearly the jury believed her. Why don't you?
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I am confused what you are referencing to here.
MomWPgirl said:
Question any verdict if you must, but I hope you can be fair to those future soldiers under your leadership/care who are victims of rape/sexual assault but without bruises, video, or witnesses.
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I don't think I have been unfair in any way to the female cadet in this case. I simply don't have enough evidence see enough evidence to decide what actually happened, and I have voiced this sentiment. Based on the responses here, I don't feel that society gives a very fair chance to those wrongfully convicted of crimes, and I would guess that this mindset leads to many cases like Brian Banks going unfixed. Is this mindset that I have observed necessarily bad? I'm not sure. This is a difficult subject, and I don't think the solution is black and white. On one hand, if you let off those where there isn't much evidence, you end up releasing a bunch of criminals into society. On the other hand, if you convict those who have very little evidence against them, you end up punishing some people that didn't deserve to be punished.
 
Folks... debating law, logic and life experiences with a first year cadet seems an exercise in folly.

Whale: you are entitled to your opinions and have the luxury to offer them in anonymity. Have fun with it.
 
1337BeachedWhale1337 said:
I am confused what you are referencing to here.

I don't think I have been unfair in any way to the female cadet in this case. I simply don't have enough evidence see enough evidence to decide what actually happened, and I have voiced this sentiment. Based on the responses here, I don't feel that society gives a very fair chance to those wrongfully convicted of crimes, and I would guess that this mindset leads to many cases like Brian Banks going unfixed. Is this mindset that I have observed necessarily bad? I'm not sure. This is a difficult subject, and I don't think the solution is black and white. On one hand, if you let off those where there isn't much evidence, you end up releasing a bunch of criminals into society. On the other hand, if you convict those who have very little evidence against them, you end up punishing some people that didn't deserve to be punished.
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I noticed from your previous posts that you are completing your plebe year. Please take a long hard look at what people are saying on this thread. Take the time to actually learn about sexual assault, and the barriers to reporting. Pay attention to your sharps training. Next year you will be expected to lead people. Female cadets included. Read John Krakauer's book, Missoula. Your continued doubt and refusal to process information make me highly skeptical of your leadership. It is time to grow up.
 
For all posting on this thread...

Have you ever been raped?

No, then you have little to no concept of the trauma.
Unfortunately, even if not outwardly evident, the victim will always for the rest of her or his life blame themselves. Asking, did I do something to invite this or not do enough to stop or prevent this.

Both cadets will be haunted by this til the day they die.
 
USMCGrunt said:
Folks... debating law, logic and life experiences with a first year cadet seems an exercise in folly.

Whale: you are entitled to your opinions and have the luxury to offer them in anonymity. Have fun with it.
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Good Point. However, he may be leading my cadet candidate. What do I do with that ?? I am a bit frightened by that idea. I shall, however, quit my folly!
 
xyz321 said:
Next year you will be expected to lead people. Female cadets included.
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Not sure what the point of this remark was. I have no gender bias, nor am I aware of myself ever having demonstrated anything of the sort. I appreciate your concern for my leadership, even if I don't necessarily feel it is warranted.
 
xyz321: trust the Army, the Academy, the instructors, Whale's peers and life itself to sort through those details and "right the ship" or "cut bait."

Most likely, you won't have much of an impact on Whale via this avenue.
 
1337BeachedWhale1337 said:
Not sure what the point of this remark was. I have no gender bias, nor am I aware of myself ever having demonstrated anything of the sort. I appreciate your concern for my leadership, even if I don't necessarily feel it is warranted.
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I just told Capri I would stop so this is my last response. You have demonstrated gender bias and a lack of compassion in this entire thread. How would you respond to a cadet, male or female who reported a sexual assault. Your response here makes one think you would ask for video evidence. Have you read the articles referenced on freeze response and non linear memory? Or are you more interested in defending your position? This is a very concerning deficiency. I am hopeful it will be noticed before it damages someone
 
USMCGrunt said:
xyz321: trust the Army, the Academy, the instructors, Whale's peers and life itself to sort through those details and "right the ship" or "cut bait."

Most likely, you won't have much of an impact on Whale via this avenue.
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Thank you!
 
xyz321 said:
You have demonstrated gender bias and a lack of compassion in this entire thread. How would you respond to a cadet, male or female who reported a sexual assault. This is a very concerning deficiency. I am hopeful it will be noticed before it damages someone
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I would like you to quote one sentence I wrote that demonstrates gender bias or a lack of compassion. If I did so, I am completely unaware of it, and I apologize greatly for doing so. If I actually did something demonstrating gender bias or a lack of compassion, I do indeed have a deficiency that needs to be addressed, and I will do my best to address the issue immediately.

I would respond by reporting the sexual assault to the proper authorities and letting them handle the situation.
 
xyz321 said:
Doubting the conviction and by extension the victim IS demonstrating both. I am attaching Another reference. And I am done. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1705531/
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So if the victim were male and the criminal were female, would I still be gender biased? Or is it only gender bias when I question something in a manner that doesn't favor a woman? Do you even know what gender I am? Are you sure you're not actually the one with gender bias? I can guarentee you, if this was the exact same scenario with genders reversed, a female raping a male, I would question the verdict in the exact same way. But I guarantee you if what I just mentioned was the case, you wouldn't be saying I am gender biased. THAT is gender bias for you, what you're doing right now. I am not the one that is gender biased. You are.
 
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