Plan b college is angry

I didn't put a deposit down on any of my 'plan B' colleges. One college in NY sent a survey asking why I didn't accept their offer and also informed me that if I wanted to transfer to their school after a semester or 2, they have special transfer option for prior admitted students. I thought that was nice.
 
jl123 said:
Glad it worked out. You are correct that it is significantly different than double depositing at two civilian colleges, but many colleges may not see it that way. I am completely in favor of having a Plan B as long as the Plan B college agrees to it. There is too much risk to doing it on the sly.
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What is the risk? Other than losing the deposit which is fairy insignificant? Our college counselor saw no issue with securing a spot at B school just in case, at the very most each college may have a couple of kids that are service academy bound that do this. If it were hundreds , that's different
 
Idlewild said:
What is the risk? Other than losing the deposit which is fairy insignificant? Our college counselor saw no issue with securing a spot at B school just in case, at the very most each college may have a couple of kids that are service academy bound that do this. If it were hundreds , that's different
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Your situation may be different since your deposit was at a state school that possibly does not use the Common Application or have a policy against double depositing. Hopefully your college counselor knows the rules and kept you within them. In that case the only risk is the inconsequential loss of a deposit.

In most cases the actual risk of using a secret Plan B is dealing with anxiety as you pray that Plan B (or your college counselor) does not follow through and report the violation to the service academy, thereby making you the test case for what the academy will actually do in this instance (no one on this forum knows what SA admissions will do).

I know of several instances where Plan B said no problem, best of luck to you. I also know of four cases in which appointed candidates were caught using a Plan B without the Plan B's knowledge and were confronted about the violation. In all cases they were distraught at the possibility that service academy admissions might be contacted. They were polite, humble, and apologized. Fortunately, there was no follow through in these cases and the extent of the "punishment" was a few shattered nerves.

In none of cases did the candidate or family tell the college to take a hike or dare them to follow through, as some on this forum have suggested is the appropriate response. The reason I am so argumentative on this issue is that in one of those cases the idea and advice to deposit at a Plan B came from this forum - without the benefit of my sage advice about possible consequences. ;)
 
jl123 said:
Your situation may be different since your deposit was at a state school that possibly does not use the Common Application or have a policy against double depositing. Hopefully your college counselor knows the rules and kept you within them. In that case the only risk is the inconsequential loss of a deposit.

In most cases the actual risk of using a secret Plan B is dealing with anxiety as you pray that Plan B (or your college counselor) does not follow through and report the violation to the service academy, thereby making you the test case for what the academy will actually do in this instance (no one on this forum knows what SA admissions will do).

I know of several instances where Plan B said no problem, best of luck to you. I also know of four cases in which appointed candidates were caught using a Plan B without the Plan B's knowledge and were confronted about the violation. In all cases they were distraught at the possibility that service academy admissions might be contacted. They were polite, humble, and apologized. Fortunately, there was no follow through in these cases and the extent of the "punishment" was a few shattered nerves.

In none of cases did the candidate or family tell the college to take a hike or dare them to follow through, as some on this forum have suggested is the appropriate response. The reason I am so argumentative on this issue is that in one of those cases the idea and advice to deposit at a Plan B came from this forum - without the benefit of my sage advice about possible consequences. ;)
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I must have missed something- there is an actual rule that you can't make a deposit at another school? Just for the academies? Where is this official Policy listed ? We had talked to the private schools that were options as well and (other than Notre Dame which we did not even ask because it wasn't a viable option financially) none of them had an issue with it. I apologize but I didn't realize there is an actual official policy against it- our very experienced guidance counselor said nothing about it either.

In reading though the posts- I don't recall seeing anything about it being a violation, thought it was being discussed as more of an ethical issue.
 
By the time a thread gets to page 7, there are so many different topics being discussed that it makes it difficult to know how is responding to what.
 
Idlewild said:
I must have missed something- there is an actual rule that you can't make a deposit at another school? Just for the academies? Where is this official Policy listed ? We had talked to the private schools that were options as well and (other than Notre Dame which we did not even ask because it wasn't a viable option financially) none of them had an issue with it. I apologize but I didn't realize there is an actual official policy against it- our very experienced guidance counselor said nothing about it either.

In reading though the posts- I don't recall seeing anything about it being a violation, thought it was being discussed as more of an ethical issue.
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  • Almost every college has a policy against being committed to more than one school after May 1st. The Common Application has a clause that must be electronically signed that states the applicant agrees not to have accepted offers from more than one college after May 1st. The "submit" button on the application will not work until that statement is signed.
  • You can accept multiple offers and make deposits before May 1st, but must withdraw all but one by May 1st. You can accept an offer from a wait list after May 1st, but must immediately withdraw from the other school.
  • Yes, the colleges are using leverage and intimidation, but that knowledge is of little help to someone that has been caught.
  • If a college willingly agrees to be a backup there is no problem.
  • To my knowledge, colleges do not share lists of students that have accepted their offers of admission. The way most get caught is by telling the Plan B the reason they will not be attending instead of giving no reason and letting Plan B think they were simply taken off wait list at another school.
  • The other way some get caught is by their high school. Some colleges send high schools lists of students from that school that have accepted their offers of admission. Some high schools worry that students violating this policy will hurt admissions chances for future students applying to that college.
  • Many high school college counselors belong to a professional organization that, as a condition of membership, requires them to report violations of the double deposit rule to every college to which the applicant was accepted. Some take that obligation seriously. One of the four cases cited above involved a high school college counselor confronting the family with the violation.
  • A few years ago the Dean of Admissions at Harvard stated in an interview that they would withdraw their offer of admission to any student found to be double deposited, but there is no publicly known case of anyone having their admission rescinded at any college for violating this rule. It is likely a scare tactic.
  • To my knowledge no one has ever been reported to a service academy for violating this rule.
  • I doubt a Plan B would actually report a violation to a service academy and I doubt service academy admissions would be familiar enough with these rules to view it as a moral/honesty issue. However, given the higher level of ethics and honesty service academies expect, I would not advise taking that chance.
  • Bottom line: Find a Plan B that will agree to be Plan B.
 
My child just reported to USMA for r day. We asked her plan B if they would accept a deposit in case if injury. They refused but offered deferral paperwork. We decided to go without a plan b. I imagine if something happens in these 6 weeks we could go back and ask if they would still take her. ( big 10 university). In hindsight, no plan b was the right thing to do. The nerves hit pretty hard in the week before r day, and she said plan b might have been too tempting. I truly agree that plan b should agree. Anything less would feel dishonest to me. Others may disagree, but I wanted to share our experience
 
jl123 said:
  • Almost every college has a policy against being committed to more than one school after May 1st. The Common Application has a clause that must be electronically signed that states the applicant agrees not to have accepted offers from more than one college after May 1st. The "submit" button on the application will not work until that statement is signed.
  • You can accept multiple offers and make deposits before May 1st, but must withdraw all but one by May 1st. You can accept an offer from a wait list after May 1st, but must immediately withdraw from the other school.
  • Yes, the colleges are using leverage and intimidation, but that knowledge is of little help to someone that has been caught.
  • If a college willingly agrees to be a backup there is no problem.
  • To my knowledge, colleges do not share lists of students that have accepted their offers of admission. The way most get caught is by telling the Plan B the reason they will not be attending instead of giving no reason and letting Plan B think they were simply taken off wait list at another school.
  • The other way some get caught is by their high school. Some colleges send high schools lists of students from that school that have accepted their offers of admission. Some high schools worry that students violating this policy will hurt admissions chances for future students applying to that college.
  • Many high school college counselors belong to a professional organization that, as a condition of membership, requires them to report violations of the double deposit rule to every college to which the applicant was accepted. Some take that obligation seriously. One of the four cases cited above involved a high school college counselor confronting the family with the violation.
  • A few years ago the Dean of Admissions at Harvard stated in an interview that they would withdraw their offer of admission to any student found to be double deposited, but there is no publicly known case of anyone having their admission rescinded at any college for violating this rule. It is likely a scare tactic.
  • To my knowledge no one has ever been reported to a service academy for violating this rule.
  • I doubt a Plan B would actually report a violation to a service academy and I doubt service academy admissions would be familiar enough with these rules to view it as a moral/honesty issue. However, given the higher level of ethics and honesty service academies expect, I would not advise taking that chance.
  • Bottom line: Find a Plan B that will agree to be Plan B.
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I genuinely had no idea- our oldest was a recruited D1 athlete so he had a signing day early in his senior year so this wouldn't apply. Our daughter was medically DQ'd briefly around the May 1 deadline so it would not have applied to her either as technically she couldn't accept admission as it was rescinded. Our counselor is top notch and actually spoke to the state school (also a Big10) directly for us and offered to help at any other schools as needed.
 
I am bringing this threat back because of what is going on with University of California Irvine. They sent out a group of acceptance letters earlier this year with about 500 accepting them. The school has now come out and took back these acceptances back claiming that either the students were late with scores or transcripts or first semester 12th grade grades werent good. As you know, everyone has to accept by May 1 or so. The school didnt realize their mistake prior to May but sometime in late July. I guess it took them 4 months to figure out someone was late with their transcripts. That means that all of these students are screwed as it is probably way too late to accept the offers from the other colleges. Here is my point, lots of people on this thread or possibly another thread talked about the morality/ethics of making deposit on a civilian college while waiting for the academies to respond. Or even the issue with putting deposits on two civilians schools although I never thought that was ever an issue. The colleges only talk about morality and ethics when it benefits them. When the colleges screws up and there is talk that their is no screw up just that the University took in way to many students, morality flies out the window and what is is good for the college is good ethics. If you are going worry about something, worry about your children and their future, the college can worry about themselves. This really pisses me off because even if what UC Irvine is telling the truth, they shouldtnt be allowed to do so after the May 1 deadline. They are telling the students to appeal the college. Personally, I would be filing a lawsuit.
 
It would be better to start a new thread if you want to discuss a specific situation/school. No one reads all 6 prior pages and many different situations are being jumbled together.
 
Humey said:
Here is my point, lots of people on this thread or possibly another thread talked about the morality/ethics of making deposit on a civilian college while waiting for the academies to respond.
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No one has questioned the ethics of making a deposit at a civilian college while waiting for the academies to respond. It is clearly within all guidelines and common sense to do so.

With respect to UC Irvine and the University of California system, some facts and conclusions:
  • The UC system has its own application and, to my recollection, has no prohibition against making deposits at other schools outside the UC system (I don't think they allow multiple deposits within the system).
  • Transcripts are not required or allowed to be submitted until after acceptance. Admissions decisions are based on self reported grades. Transcripts are then submitted by enrolling students for verification against self reported grades. A deadline is set to receive transcripts to allow time for verification. This process is a time bomb waiting to explode, as it did at UC Irvine.
  • The UC system is the most politically corrupt, biased, and mismanaged system of higher education in the country - it serves its own interests and not those of the students or taxpayers of California (not that I have any opinion on this subject ;)).
  • Accepted students intending to enroll in the UC system that do not protect themselves are rolling the dice with their education.
  • Comparisons of UC Irvine and the UC system with other university systems are specious.
 
will do
jl123 said:
Humey said:
Here is my point, lots of people on this thread or possibly another thread talked about the morality/ethics of making deposit on a civilian college while waiting for the academies to respond.
Click to expand...
No one has questioned the ethics of making a deposit at a civilian college while waiting for the academies to respond. It is clearly within all guidelines and common sense to do so.

With respect to UC Irvine and the University of California system, some facts and conclusions:
  • The UC system has its own application and, to my recollection, has no prohibition against making deposits at other schools outside the UC system (I don't think they allow multiple deposits within the system).
  • Transcripts are not required or allowed to be submitted until after acceptance. Admissions decisions are based on self reported grades. Transcripts are then submitted by enrolling students for verification against self reported grades. A deadline is set to receive transcripts to allow time for verification. This process is a time bomb waiting to explode, as it did at UC Irvine.
  • The UC system is the most politically corrupt, biased, and mismanaged system of higher education in the country - it serves its own interests and not those of the students or taxpayers of California (not that I have any opinion on this subject ;)).
  • Accepted students intending to enroll in the UC system that do not protect themselves are rolling the dice with their education.
  • Comparisons of UC Irvine and the UC system with other university systems are specious.
Click to expand...
I wasnt using UC Irvine because they allow or not allow deposits outside the system. My point is that all schools will do what is good for the school regardless of ethics or morality. However, they expect the student to be ethical in terms of acceptances and deposits. Dont worry about the colleges because they make out fine in the end plus they keep your deposit money. As for making deposits, I dont think the colleges appreciate you accepting a spot and sending in money and then later declining because you got accept to one of the academies.
 
Humey said:
will do
jl123 said:
Humey said:
Here is my point, lots of people on this thread or possibly another thread talked about the morality/ethics of making deposit on a civilian college while waiting for the academies to respond.
Click to expand...
No one has questioned the ethics of making a deposit at a civilian college while waiting for the academies to respond. It is clearly within all guidelines and common sense to do so.

With respect to UC Irvine and the University of California system, some facts and conclusions:
  • The UC system has its own application and, to my recollection, has no prohibition against making deposits at other schools outside the UC system (I don't think they allow multiple deposits within the system).
  • Transcripts are not required or allowed to be submitted until after acceptance. Admissions decisions are based on self reported grades. Transcripts are then submitted by enrolling students for verification against self reported grades. A deadline is set to receive transcripts to allow time for verification. This process is a time bomb waiting to explode, as it did at UC Irvine.
  • The UC system is the most politically corrupt, biased, and mismanaged system of higher education in the country - it serves its own interests and not those of the students or taxpayers of California (not that I have any opinion on this subject ;)).
  • Accepted students intending to enroll in the UC system that do not protect themselves are rolling the dice with their education.
  • Comparisons of UC Irvine and the UC system with other university systems are specious.
Click to expand...
I wasnt using UC Irvine because they allow or not allow deposits outside the system. My point is that all schools will do what is good for the school regardless of ethics or morality. However, they expect the student to be ethical in terms of acceptances and deposits. Dont worry about the colleges because they make out fine in the end plus they keep your deposit money. As for making deposits, I dont think the colleges appreciate you accepting a spot and sending in money and then later declining because you got accept to one of the academies.
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  • Most colleges act ethically and deal with diversions from the rules on a case by case basis. Like some people, some colleges do things that make others cringe.
  • No college has a problem with a student that places a deposit and then gets accepted off a waiting list to another college or accepted to a service academy. That is well within the written policies and accepted by every college in the nation.
  • Your argument to look out for #1 fails to address the risks and consequences of that action (well documented in other posts so won't repeat here).
 
jl123 said:
Humey said:
will do
jl123 said:
Humey said:
Here is my point, lots of people on this thread or possibly another thread talked about the morality/ethics of making deposit on a civilian college while waiting for the academies to respond.
Click to expand...
No one has questioned the ethics of making a deposit at a civilian college while waiting for the academies to respond. It is clearly within all guidelines and common sense to do so.

With respect to UC Irvine and the University of California system, some facts and conclusions:
  • The UC system has its own application and, to my recollection, has no prohibition against making deposits at other schools outside the UC system (I don't think they allow multiple deposits within the system).
  • Transcripts are not required or allowed to be submitted until after acceptance. Admissions decisions are based on self reported grades. Transcripts are then submitted by enrolling students for verification against self reported grades. A deadline is set to receive transcripts to allow time for verification. This process is a time bomb waiting to explode, as it did at UC Irvine.
  • The UC system is the most politically corrupt, biased, and mismanaged system of higher education in the country - it serves its own interests and not those of the students or taxpayers of California (not that I have any opinion on this subject ;)).
  • Accepted students intending to enroll in the UC system that do not protect themselves are rolling the dice with their education.
  • Comparisons of UC Irvine and the UC system with other university systems are specious.
Click to expand...
I wasnt using UC Irvine because they allow or not allow deposits outside the system. My point is that all schools will do what is good for the school regardless of ethics or morality. However, they expect the student to be ethical in terms of acceptances and deposits. Dont worry about the colleges because they make out fine in the end plus they keep your deposit money. As for making deposits, I dont think the colleges appreciate you accepting a spot and sending in money and then later declining because you got accept to one of the academies.
Click to expand...
  • Most colleges act ethically and deal with diversions from the rules on a case by case basis. Like some people, some colleges do things that make others cringe.
  • No college has a problem with a student that places a deposit and then gets accepted off a waiting list to another college or accepted to a service academy. That is well within the written policies and accepted by every college in the nation.
  • Your argument to look out for #1 fails to address the risks and consequences of that action (well documented in other posts so won't repeat here).
Click to expand...
Dont agree. Colleges will do what benefits them.
 
Fairhope dad said:
I paid a deposit for my son at Auburn. He was medically dq'd from USMMA after Indoc. Auburn honored his tuition scholarship and engineering department scholarship. If I didn't pay the deposit way back before he made his decision he would be paying for his school now. You never know what may happen.
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Fairhope dad. I know this is an old post, but i have some questions for you if you are available.
 
Louisiana said:
Fairhope dad. I know this is an old post, but i have some questions for you if you are available.
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@Louisiana DS had full NROTC scholarship for Rutgers, as the backup for his USNA appointment. We paid the $300 deposit for Rutgers (insurance policy) not expecting a refund. All NROTC midshipmen (Navy and Marine Option) are given a mandatory three-week New Student Indoctrination (NSI) at Naval Station Great Lakes during the summer prior to their freshman year. DS had great conversation with NROTC leadership at Rutgers and they scheduled him for a late summer NSI cycle 3 so if he were turned away from USNA due to injury before I-Day he would have his Rutgers NROTC parachute. The Monday after we dropped DS off at Annapolis, we called Rutgers & emailed his NROTC advisor. Both could not have been nicer.
 
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