A New Course for the Military

The US wasn't established as some sort of hands-off approach to small government.

The citizens of the 13 colonies of 1776 considered themselves to be Englishmen, with all the rights of Englishmen. They didn't mind the "big government" of that era, i.e taxation, but resented not having a say in the matter. "No taxation without representation" was their slogan, not simply "No taxation". Had King George III granted the citizens of Boston and New York and Philadelphia seats in the House of Commons & the House of Lords, we'd be singing God Save The Queen in 2017.

And the introduction of Social Security in 1933 and Medicare in 1965 (among many other federal programs) were genuinely popular at inception and only grew with popularity over time.

The American people love their Big Government, its space program, its interstate highways, its air traffic safety regulation, its mandatory vaccinations, its public schools, its food & medicine safety regulations, its regulation of Wall Street and banks, its armed forces, its gov't subsidies of corn, wheat, sugar and milk, etc., its federal aid to police departments, its uncorrupted court system & prisons, its border guards, its Coast Guard, its insurance of bank deposits, its dams & hydro-electric power grids, its dependable Postal Service, its US Marshals Service, FBI, Secret Service, Treasury Agents.....ad nauseum.

Not to mention ROTC scholarships, government-paid health insurance for spouses & kids while on active duty, GI Bill education benefits, GI Bill mortgage guarantees, etc.

When government-financed science developed polio vaccines nobody was crying about government getting too involved in our business.

When federal law enforcement crushes the Mafia nobody waves a Tea Party/Gadsen flag in protest.

Most of those protesting against "Big Government" inevitably benefit from it in some form or another.
 
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The US wasn't established as some sort of hands-off approach to small government.

The citizens of the 13 colonies of 1776 considered themselves to be Englishmen, with all the rights of Englishmen. They didn't mind the "big government" of that era, i.e taxation, but resented not having a say in the matter. "No taxation without representation" was their slogan, not simply "No taxation". Had King George III granted the citizens of Boston and New York and Philadelphia seats in the House of Commons & the House of Lords, we'd be singing God Save The Queen in 2017.

And the introduction of Social Security in 1933 and Medicare in 1965 (among many other federal programs) were genuinely popular at inception and only grew with popularity over time.

The American people love their Big Government, its space program, its interstate highways, its air traffic safety regulation, its mandatory vaccinations, its public schools, its food & medicine safety regulations, its regulation of Wall Street and banks, its armed forces, its gov't subsidies of corn, wheat, sugar and milk, etc., its federal aid to police departments, its uncorrupted court system & prisons, its border guards, its Coast Guard, its insurance of bank deposits, its dams & hydro-electric power grids, its dependable Postal Service, its US Marshals Service, FBI, Secret Service, Treasury Agents.....ad nauseum.

Not to mention ROTC scholarships, government-paid health insurance for spouses & kids while on active duty, GI Bill education benefits, GI Bill mortgage guarantees, etc.

When government-financed science developed polio vaccines nobody was crying about government getting too involved in our business.

When federal law enforcement crushes the Mafia nobody waves a Tea Party/Gadsen flag in protest.

Most of those protesting against "Big Government" inevitably benefit from it in some form or another.

I just finished a book called Fear City, about the near bankruptcy of NYC in 1975. It was a city that also loved its programs and government support...

But it's heart was bigger than its wallet.
 
What about the spanish American war? Was there any draft put into place? In my history class that was a war that was big but not big. We covered it because Theodore Roosevelt participated in it and was part of it but not in depth.

No draft in the Spanish-American War, which lasted less than a year.

Big factors: Spanish Empire was decrepit and dying, Cubans & Puerto Ricans (and, initially, Filipinos) welcomed US as liberators, & US was a rising industrial giant.

Did I mention that the Spanish army sucked?
 
The US wasn't established as some sort of hands-off approach to small government.

The citizens of the 13 colonies of 1776 considered themselves to be Englishmen, with all the rights of Englishmen. They didn't mind the "big government" of that era, i.e taxation, but resented not having a say in the matter. "No taxation without representation" was their slogan, not simply "No taxation". Had King George III granted the citizens of Boston and New York and Philadelphia seats in the House of Commons & the House of Lords, we'd be singing God Save The Queen in 2017.

And the introduction of Social Security in 1933 and Medicare in 1965 (among many other federal programs) were genuinely popular at inception and only grew with popularity over time.

The American people love their Big Government, its space program, its interstate highways, its air traffic safety regulation, its mandatory vaccinations, its public schools, its food & medicine safety regulations, its regulation of Wall Street and banks, its armed forces, its gov't subsidies of corn, wheat, sugar and milk, etc., its federal aid to police departments, its uncorrupted court system & prisons, its border guards, its Coast Guard, its insurance of bank deposits, its dams & hydro-electric power grids, its dependable Postal Service, its US Marshals Service, FBI, Secret Service, Treasury Agents.....ad nauseum.

Not to mention ROTC scholarships, government-paid health insurance for spouses & kids while on active duty, GI Bill education benefits, GI Bill mortgage guarantees, etc.

When government-financed science developed polio vaccines nobody was crying about government getting too involved in our business.

When federal law enforcement crushes the Mafia nobody waves a Tea Party/Gadsen flag in protest.

Most of those protesting against "Big Government" inevitably benefit from it in some form or another.

I just finished a book called Fear City, about the near bankruptcy of NYC in 1975. It was a city that also loved its programs and government support...

But it's heart was bigger than its wallet.

NYC still has Big Government. Works fine today. 1970s were an aberration, caused mostly by moving of manufacturing jobs to the South in the post-Ww2 era. Right-wing ideology would have us believe otherwise, but it ain't so. Try buying a condo in Williamsburg for less than$800,000. The Bronx isn't burning anymore, it's gentrifying. NYC today has less murders per capita than in early 1960s. Part of Big Government is having 40,000 NYPD cops on duty for good pay, good benefits. Plus firemen & public school teachers. Big Government works.
 
NYC still has Big Government. Works fine today. 1970s were an aberration, caused mostly by moving of manufacturing jobs to the South in the post-Ww2 era. Right-wing ideology would have us believe otherwise, but it ain't so. Try buying a condo in Williamsburg for less than$800,000. The Bronx isn't burning anymore, it's gentrifying. NYC today has less murders per capita than in early 1960s. Part of Big Government is having 40,000 NYPD cops on duty for good pay, good benefits. Plus firemen & public school teachers. Big Government works.

I'm not sure this reflects how big the government was. And while the movement of manufacturing jobs contributed, that was no where close to cover the debts three mayors stacked up over the years....
 
NYC still has Big Government. Works fine today. 1970s were an aberration, caused mostly by moving of manufacturing jobs to the South in the post-Ww2 era. Right-wing ideology would have us believe otherwise, but it ain't so. Try buying a condo in Williamsburg for less than$800,000. The Bronx isn't burning anymore, it's gentrifying. NYC today has less murders per capita than in early 1960s. Part of Big Government is having 40,000 NYPD cops on duty for good pay, good benefits. Plus firemen & public school teachers. Big Government works.

I'm not sure this reflects how big the government was. And while the movement of manufacturing jobs contributed, that was no where close to cover the debts three mayors stacked up over the years....

I won't deny for a second the fiscal mistakes made by Lindsay & Beame (and who the 3rd, Wagner?), but "Big Government" in and of itself was not to blame.

NYC was saved by the 401K and deregulation of Wall Street, making it a company town to this day as much as Detroit was from 1910-1980.
 
I won't deny for a second the fiscal mistakes made by Lindsay & Beame (and who the 3rd, Wagner?), but "Big Government" in and of itself was not to blame.

NYC was saved by the 401K and deregulation of Wall Street, making it a company town to this day as much as Detroit was from 1910-1980.

Wagner was technically 1st. The deregulation of Wall Street had nothing to do with it. Major cuts and companies (including city pensions) buying city paper and bonds.

Free schools, free college, numerous hospitals, clinics, daycares, high salaries for public servants, redundant services, suspect debt offerings, increased spending...


And the big save was, after extreme cuts, the federal government backing new debt offerings.
 
And I won't go down the accounting road and crazy debt instruments.... based on "magic."
 
What 1930s-1940s public spending was unsustainable? Just curious. Following FDR (1945 on) the US enjoyed (and continues to enjoy) unprecedented prosperity. Federal deficit spending didn't become excessive until the 1980s, forty years after FDR's demise.

The size of government exploded under FDR. You're going to make me find the book I just read on it.... but I don't have it with me.

You're also ignore some years of stagflation and slow growth.

The federal government DID enlarge dramatically under FDR, but the economy enlarged even more.

Stagflation wasn't FDR's fault, in happened from the 1970s to early 1980s. Caused by a myriad of factors, including declining post-Vietnam defence budgets, OPEC oil boycotts & then oil production cuts, Nixon taking the US off the Gold standard, etc.

But even with that, not to mention the 1957-1958 Recession, 1987 Stock Market Crash, 1990-1991 Recession, 2001-2002 Recession and 2008-2009 Great Recession, from 1941-to-the-present the United States has continued to become more wealthier and powerful against all expectations.

In 1945 the world was in ruins with the exception of the US. Nowadays we have lots of competition and still outperform everyone.

In 1961 we feared the future belonged to those Sputnik-producing Soviets.

In 1989 we feared the future belonged to those Honda-producing Japanese.

In 2017 we fear the future belongs to those I-Phone producing Chinese.

The future, as it as did in the past, belongs to America, even with (or because of?) our Social Security, Medicare & Obamacare.
 
I'm just not so sure of that. I wish I was. I think the debt we've accumulated is a pit we can't get out of. And that is dangerous.

It took more than 20 years for the market to recover (1954)....
 
And I won't go down the accounting road and crazy debt instruments.... based on "magic."

Big Government doesn't mean Big Debts.

Pre-1789 France and pre-1917 Russia, both ardent defenders of conservatism of their eras, were racked with unpayable levels of debts, which were accrued without benefitting their populations a whit.

Or are you referring to the notorious CDOs of Wall Street pre-2008?
 
Big Government doesn't mean Big Debts.

Pre-1789 France and pre-1917 Russia, both ardent defenders of conservatism of their eras, were racked with unpayable levels of debts, which were accrued without benefitting their populations a whit.

Or are you referring to the notorious CDOs of Wall Street pre-2008?

No, I'm referring to NYC's not accounting for federal aid and taxes that hadn't been collected, and when revenues did not materialize, ignoring the liability.

The state engaged in it too.
 
What are some big governments with big programs that don't have big deficit spending, that, if not controlled, hasn't ended in big debts?
 
I'm just not so sure of that. I wish I was. I think the debt we've accumulated is a pit we can't get out of. And that is dangerous.

It took more than 20 years for the market to recover (1954)....

An individual should acquire debt when they are in their prime earning years, say 25-45 years old, as an investment. Then grow more conservative as they age and their income no longer grows, with retirement coming.

A nation-state knows no such limitations as a human being. It can grow bigger, richer and able to borrow more and more as time goes on

But I agree with you that the US needs to find ways to address its long term debt. When Social Security/Medicare make up 40% of the annual budget, reform is required. The political will to do so isn't there to do so currently. But, luckily, when the Baby Boomer generation dies off (by around 2030 or so) federal outlays for Social Security/Medicare will plummet.

Ever wonder why the Chinese don't discourage smoking & the Russians don't discourage vodka? It makes budgetary sense. Fewer old Chinese & Russians to support with government pensions. Cruel, but monetarily efficient.
 
An individual should acquire debt when they are in their prime earning years, say 25-45 years old, as an investment. Then grow more conservative as they age and their income no longer grows, with retirement coming.

A nation-state knows no such limitations as a human being. It can grow bigger, richer and able to borrow more and more as time goes on

But I agree with you that the US needs to find ways to address its long term debt. When Social Security/Medicare make up 40% of the annual budget, reform is required. The political will to do so isn't there to do so currently. But, luckily, when the Baby Boomer generation dies off (by around 2030 or so) federal outlays for Social Security/Medicare will plummet.

Ever wonder why the Chinese don't discourage smoking & the Russians don't discourage vodka? It makes budgetary sense. Fewer old Chinese & Russians to support with government pensions. Cruel, but monetarily efficient.

I'm not sure if put much faith into Russia or China's budgetary decisions. Not in 1998... not now.
 
Big Government doesn't mean Big Debts.

Pre-1789 France and pre-1917 Russia, both ardent defenders of conservatism of their eras, were racked with unpayable levels of debts, which were accrued without benefitting their populations a whit.

Or are you referring to the notorious CDOs of Wall Street pre-2008?

No, I'm referring to NYC's not accounting for federal aid and taxes that hadn't been collected, and when revenues did not materialize, ignoring the liability.

The state engaged in it too.

Well, in those politician's defence, the economy moves at the pace of a lightning bolt whereas government moves at the pace of a glacier.

And democratically-elected leaders, by their nature, cannot make revolutionary changes without voter consent.

Being mayor of NYC in 1960s-1970s would have severely tested the Jeffersons, Franklins, Lincolns, etc.
 
An individual should acquire debt when they are in their prime earning years, say 25-45 years old, as an investment. Then grow more conservative as they age and their income no longer grows, with retirement coming.

A nation-state knows no such limitations as a human being. It can grow bigger, richer and able to borrow more and more as time goes on

But I agree with you that the US needs to find ways to address its long term debt. When Social Security/Medicare make up 40% of the annual budget, reform is required. The political will to do so isn't there to do so currently. But, luckily, when the Baby Boomer generation dies off (by around 2030 or so) federal outlays for Social Security/Medicare will plummet.

Ever wonder why the Chinese don't discourage smoking & the Russians don't discourage vodka? It makes budgetary sense. Fewer old Chinese & Russians to support with government pensions. Cruel, but monetarily efficient.

Interesting book called Red Ink hits on the budget process, the hole we're in and the kind of cuts (they're huge) that need to happen (but likely wouldn't). It also goes into the nondiscretionary budget items... which is very scary.
 
Well, in those politician's defence, the economy moves at the pace of a lightning bolt whereas government moves at the pace of a glacier.

And democratically-elected leaders, by their nature, cannot make revolutionary changes without voter consent.

Being mayor of NYC in 1960s-1970s would have severely tested the Jeffersons, Franklins, Lincolns, etc.

But not the Ed Kochs?
 
What are some big governments with big programs that don't have big deficit spending, that, if not controlled, hasn't ended in big debts?

The key is CONTROLLING those expenditures. FDR promoted Social Security when the average US family had 6 kids. It made actuarial sense in 1933, and in 1953 and even in 1973. But in 2017 when the birthrate is threatening to hit 2 kids per family, it needs adjusting. Or more immigrants under the age of 30.
 
The key is CONTROLLING those expenditures. FDR promoted Social Security when the average US family had 6 kids. It made actuarial sense in 1933, and in 1953 and even in 1973. But in 2017 when the birthrate is threatening to hit 2 kids per family, it needs adjusting. Or more immigrants under the age of 30.

It's no where near control now... and there's little will to change that.

Reminds me of a scene in Jurassic Park... about control.... and illusions.
 
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