North Korea threatens strike on Guam

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My vote would go to option #2. The slow, continued strangulation of the regime.
If you actually think that is a possible option you haven't read enough about North Korea.
Hell, it worked over 45 years with the Soviet Union and their empire.
What worked over 45 years with the Soviet Union? They collapsed because they overspent trying to compete with us in an arms race. What the hell does that have to do with North Korea being "strangled" by sanctions as @Raimus proposed
 
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North Korea's economy is not very reliant on trade, so could someone please explain to me how this economic strangulation is supposed to work :rolleyes:

I don't see how a collapse would take place even if 100% of trade was cut off from them... Anyone care to explain how this collapse would happen?
 
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Isn't youth great?
Aren't ad hominem remarks great? If I make a feeble argument, attack it, rip it to shreds, and show me why I'm wrong. Simply saying I'm young and naïve provides nothing to the discussion.

Talking about hundreds or thousands or more being killed is easy on here. Trying to stop your buddy from leaking out in your arms while ignoring the roar of the firefight is a whole different ballgame.
Talking about hundreds of millions or more being killed is easy on here. Trying to cover your mother's body from being destroyed by a nuclear bomb while the entire country is going to **** is a whole different ballgame.
 
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Are you willing to assume the responsibility for hundreds millions of people dying because we failed to fight North Korea before they obtained advanced nuclear technology?

Are you willing to assume the responsibility for thousands, possibly millions of Koreans and Americans dying because we fought North Korea unnecessarily? No, you're not, because it's not your responsibility to assume, thankfully. As unfortunate as it is for you to read about in books and on the internet, the responsibility for hundreds of millions of North Koreans dying is not our responsibility to assume.
When I said that quote, I was simply paraphrasing what @Raimus said since he asked me the following question:
Are you willing to assume responsibility for that, or do you think continued, slow economic strangulation of the DPRK and eventual overthrow of their dictatorship is a better plan?
There are terrible things happening around the world on a daily basis, that's the reality of this world. Unless our interests outweigh our risks, we don't get involved. As a future officer, you need to understand that we don't just watch sobby commercials or news stories on some sad part of the world and decide to organize a militarized mission trip to make all the bad things go away. It just doesn't happen like that. And your oath will be to the U.S Constitution, not that of North Korea, Russia, or some other far off land where bad men are doing bad things to other people. Our interests trump all others, regardless of how that makes you feel.
And I believe that it is our interest to preemptively strike North Korea. It is not my decision to do that, and if the US decides not to do that I will continue to give my best effort to serve the US, but I believe that the correct decision is to attack. The human rights issues are not the reason I believe we should attack. I am sure there were many people in the military in the Vietnam-era that did not agree with the war, and I am sure many of them still did their jobs fine. I don't see why it isn't possible for me to do the same, to have my own opinion but still fight for the United States in whatever course of action they elect to take.

So, maybe I've missed it since I only briefly read the other threads, what exactly are the list of reasons you want us to strike NK? I was under the impression the hundreds of millions of NK citizens that would be saved was point #1.

To the rest of your post, that is great that you will support the course of action chosen. It's not like you, or I, or anyone below the 4 star level has much of a choice anyways. However, I think one key issue many people find with your points and why you face such criticism is that you have a "Strike now or else we're doomed" mentality. And there are a lot of people much more educated on the subject giving candid advice of why your suggested course of action is not a good idea. That's why you see these threads turning to jokes

I'm quite a few time zones ahead of you and have some time to waste so in the meantime I'll try to find your other points.
 
I think I have it now:

Nukes that can range US + Greatest human rights violation of all time = Strike now

Is that essentially it?

Yea, and this might come off as harsh to you and others on the forum, but with what we (we being America) have on our plate right now, the North Korean citizen is not my interest. Even if you put them in a Sarah Mclachlan commercial. I'd say it's even more complicated than that. Now to us, North Korean citizens live pretty poorly, but how many of them know that? To their standards, are they living poorly? They are generations and generations deep with the mindset that they are great. If they were "freed" tomorrow and the gates of the country were opened, where do you think they would go? I would say the vast majority would probably stay where they are.

Yea, the nuclear capability is a potential threat, but I don't see how a preemptive strike is the way to go on this. There are a lot of capabilities that you aren't privy too, but regardless I don't think you're fully read on the subject. Especially if these are your two main points. There's a lot at stake here.
 
For God's sake will someone Ban this Troll, it's an embarrassment to this forum. We put up with a fake Marine for too long, do we really need to put up with a fake cadet.
 
North Korea's economy is not very reliant on trade, so could someone please explain to me how this economic strangulation is supposed to work :rolleyes:

I don't see how a collapse would take place even if 100% of trade was cut off from them... Anyone care to explain how this collapse would happen?

First, the purpose of sanction is to stop North Korea from further developing their nuclear capabilities, not collapsing the regime.

The current sanctions are full of holes. I am sure you can do an internet search of North Korea + Sanctions + not working and find bunch of articles. From what I remember how North Korea avoid sanctions or earn foreign currency are

- illegal activities: selling drugs, counterfeiting goods and US dollar
- exporting labor: North Koreans working in foreign countries, where NK government keeps majority of their rights warnings
- fake or third party company to launder money: something like calling a company SKorea LLD to make the customer believe it's a South Korean company
- China: they ignore/control economic activities with North Korea
- North Korean expat community in Japan: this might be outdated, but this communtiybused to send signifcant amount of money to NK.

So these activities described above and some are just enough to keep the regime going and develop their nuclear capabilities. Think about itwhy isn't NK spending money to upgrade their tanks and airplanes, beside China and Russia won't selling weapons to them? It's not cost effetive, spend a billion to develop nuclear capabilities vs buy 50 MIG 29. Buying 50 MIG 29 will upgrade their Air Force, but won't shift the air power balance in their favor.

So stopping activities mentioned above will "strangle" North Korean economy. But since China don't want North Korea to collapse, they won't do it.

Suppose China changes their mind and apply full international sanctions against North Korea. North Korea has to prioritize their spending- stop developing nuclear weapons or downgrade Kim and his entourage's life style.
 
First, the purpose of sanction is to stop North Korea from further developing their nuclear capabilities, not collapsing the regime.

So stopping activities mentioned above will "strangle" North Korean economy. But since China don't want North Korea to collapse, they won't do it.

Suppose China changes their mind and apply full international sanctions against North Korea. North Korea has to prioritize their spending- stop developing nuclear weapons or downgrade Kim and his entourage's life style.
I'm not sure how exactly this would work. Kim is free to spend the entirety of the GDP of North Korea however he pleases. If he wants to spend less of it on grain even thought that means millions of people will starve to death, he can do that. Currently defense spending takes up 23.3% of their GDP. If North Korea loses money from sanctions, what is stopping Kim from increasing this figure to 50, or 75%? Kim doesn't have to keep all of his people alive, and he won't if it means he can't have nukes.

Do you really believe we are going to be able to sanction North Korea hard enough that their nuclear program comes to a complete halt? North Korea's GDP last year was 28 million US $. In 2015 they exported 2.83 billion dollars worth of goods and imported 3.47 billion. That is not a very large portion of their economy that is coming from trade. Even if all imports and exports were cut off completely, Kim could simply let a few million people starve and continue his merry way with his nuclear program.
 
We need to sanction China, they are obviously not doing enough. China only understands in $$. Fastest growing U.S. & Canadian Realestate owners are Chinese, biggest international students in U.S. colleges & boarding schools are Chinese, & biggest U.S. investors in hopes to obtain green card & pathway to U.S. Citizenship are Chinese. Trust me, if China wanted to, they can put an end to Crazy Kim!
 
I'm not sure how exactly this would work. Kim is free to spend the entirety of the GDP of North Korea however he pleases. If he wants to spend less of it on grain even thought that means millions of people will starve to death, he can do that. Currently defense spending takes up 23.3% of their GDP. If North Korea loses money from sanctions, what is stopping Kim from increasing this figure to 50, or 75%? Kim doesn't have to keep all of his people alive, and he won't if it means he can't have nukes.

Kim is not free to spend the entirety of the GDP of North Korea however he pleases. Say I am irresponsible and decide to spent all of my pay check on buying guns. I can do it. No one can't stop me, except I can't pay my other bills and eventually no gas, electricity, no TV, no cell phone, no food, and foreclosure of my house.

On a side note, whaever your source is, NK spending 23.3% of their GDP is a guess. After all NK is a closed society and not likely they allow third parties to review their budget and the GDP is also a guess. So NK could be spending 10, 20, 30, or 40% of their GDP on defense already. Another thing for you to consider is that GDP is a western concept, so it might not be an applicable way to measure NK's economy.

My guess is that Kim will spend as much as he can, but won't cross certain
Lines. After all, if everyone dies, who is going to work for him?
 
The UN approach is completely worthless. They are a Communist organization. Google their actions for yourself over history.
 
My father (history) stated many years ago that when he was an Officer in many many foriegn countries that there were 2 groups of people that were always respected and did we're not messed with. They were Americans and French Foreign Legend.
 
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Don't expect China to do anything under any circumstances. Remember don't try to equate the freedom Democratic way of life on those who never had it or earned it. Square in a round hole syndrome.
 
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