Nomination puzzle

My DS has attended many SA days given by our MOC. It was made clear to
Him that demographics do play a role, ie., we live on the east coast, he was told it would be probably be easier to seek a nom to the USAFA, as compared to the USNA and the USMA.
 
lynn114 said:
My DS has attended many SA days given by our MOC. It was made clear to
Him that demographics do play a role, ie., we live on the east coast, he was told it would be probably be easier to seek a nom to the USAFA, as compared to the USNA and the USMA.
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I have heard similar sentiments. This is likely because east coast kids are more aware of USNA and USMA. I have friends in Oregon and Colorado. Everyone out there seems to want USAFA. Again, because it is what they know most about out.
 
If you add those numbers up, you get 1200 which is around the number they want to enter
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Don't forget the ~270 coming from NAPS/Foundation each year. Some of those are charged to MOCs, but many are charged to SecNav. Thus, with an entering class of ~1170 US citizens, you 're competing for about 900 direct appointment slots. The math still works out b/c quite a few MOCs don't have their full quota of 5 at the SA and may not have a qualified candidate in a given year.

But, as you can see, with a decreasing class size, if you don't win your MOC slate, the path to an appointment is more difficult because fewer are coming out of the National Pool/NWL than did 20 years ago. It is also why it helps to have more than one nom as it gives you more slates to win (recognizing that candidates in certain competitive areas won't be able to get more than one nom). Because the "other 9" from super-competitive states/districts are usually super-competitive candidates, they generally do well competing in the National Pool, which is how certain districts can have many more mids at USNA than the 5 charged to the MOC.

Also, while the Supe has 50 nom slots per year, the number typically used in recent years is much closer to 5.

Remember that one does not need a nom to be accepted to NAPS/Foundation (though many of those candidates do have noms).
 
lynn114 said:
My DS has attended many SA days given by our MOC. It was made clear to
Him that demographics do play a role, ie., we live on the east coast, he was told it would be probably be easier to seek a nom to the USAFA, as compared to the USNA and the USMA.
Click to expand...

No question ...its all about numbers, preferences and awareness. High School students on he East Coast are more aware of USNA and the Navy in general than kids here in the Midwest, so more apply, and the more get rejected. It's the opposite here in the Midwest, I didn't get into USAFA 30+ years ago (and it turns out to be the best thing that ever happened to me !). This does not mean that the candidates from these areas are any less qualified or competitive -- we have the stellar candidates, just not as many of them--getting a Nomination is usually not an issue, but they still have to win their MOC pool.
 
Actually, the picture is a little better than USMA 1994 indicated above, because there will be around 1500 appointment offers extended to attract an incoming class of 1200 doolies. This is because there are always a few hundred who choose other academies/colleges. So be encouraged! (my numbers apply to USAFA but I suspect they may be similar at all the academies).
 
Old Navy BGO said:
No question ...its all about numbers, preferences and awareness. High School students on he East Coast are more aware of USNA and the Navy in general than kids here in the Midwest, so more apply, and the more get rejected. It's the opposite here in the Midwest, I didn't get into USAFA 30+ years ago (and it turns out to be the best thing that ever happened to me !). This does not mean that the candidates from these areas are any less qualified or competitive -- we have the stellar candidates, just not as many of them--getting a Nomination is usually not an issue, but they still have to win their MOC pool.
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Remember, there are many moving parts and demographics is just one of them... I know of candidates from Colorado that have received appointments to USAFA, but not USNA (contrary to the "normal" guidance we received from MOC staff, BGO, etc. - ACT scores were well above the "middle 50%" scores shown in the USNA Class of 2021 Snapshot and EC/sports/leadership packages looked reasonable). Each of the SAs are looking for something a bit different, each candidate just needs to put together the strongest packet possible and hope that it works out for the best.

There is no way for us of the outside of the process to know the weighting of the all the objective and subjective factors used by each of the SAs to assess an applicant, so it is essentially impossible to determine why applicants are selected for some SAs and not others...
 
Proximity to a concentration of one service's facilities plays a strong role in candidate interest in the academy for that service. For example, San Diego, with a large number of navy and marine corps personnel, is always very competitive for nominations to USNA. There is little variance from year to year in the number of candidates seeking nominations to USNA.

In contrast, competitiveness for nominations to USMA and USAFA in San Diego vary more from year to year.
 
USMA 1994 said:
Seahunt said:
So 10 candidates may be competing for 1 to 5 spots within their district? If that is accurate -it sounds like there may also be an opportunity for other "at-large"spots if not all states / districts around the country fill all their spots? Is that in the ballpark?
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They are not really at large spots. They are restricted by law into how the class is filled. Here is the typical breakdown.

Primary are the competitive slots.
* Each MOC has 5 charged at one time so in theory 20% of each year has two openings - Approximately 650
* Service Connected Appointments - 100
* Presidential Appointments - 100
* Superintendent Appointments - 50
* National Waiting List by the next order of merit - 150
* Additional Appointees of the NWL to complete class competition goals - Approximately 150

If you add those numbers up, you get 1200 which is around the number they want to enter. The only geographic impact is for the first 650 MOC appointments
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Which nominations go toward the current NAPSters?
 
bub6 said:
USMA 1994 said:
Seahunt said:
So 10 candidates may be competing for 1 to 5 spots within their district? If that is accurate -it sounds like there may also be an opportunity for other "at-large"spots if not all states / districts around the country fill all their spots? Is that in the ballpark?
Click to expand...


They are not really at large spots. They are restricted by law into how the class is filled. Here is the typical breakdown.

Primary are the competitive slots.
* Each MOC has 5 charged at one time so in theory 20% of each year has two openings - Approximately 650
* Service Connected Appointments - 100
* Presidential Appointments - 100
* Superintendent Appointments - 50
* National Waiting List by the next order of merit - 150
* Additional Appointees of the NWL to complete class competition goals - Approximately 150

If you add those numbers up, you get 1200 which is around the number they want to enter. The only geographic impact is for the first 650 MOC appointments
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Which nominations go toward the current NAPSters?
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It could be any one of sources for which they are eligible - they may be eligible for multiple sources. For example, a prior service NAPSter from a military family will be eligible for Service Connected, Presidential, and MOC nominations.

That is all part of the juggling act as admissions figures out how to attribute nominations to get the best class possible.
 
usna1985 said:
Some states and/or districts may not have a sufficient number of qualified candidates to nominate 10 (for one spot) or even nominate anyone. In the past, there were districts where no one even applied for a nom, though that is no longer the case.

First, if a district (or state) has ONE applicant for a nom, that applicant can get the nom. If that candidate is qualified for an appointment, he/she will be appointed. (BTW, don't assume that person isn't supremely qualified -- most often it's not a matter of qualification but the number of qualified applicants).

If there are no applicants/qualified applicants in a state/district, here's what is supposed to happen. No one from that district is nominated/appointed That means that slot goes unfilled and there is an "extra" slot available to candidates in the national pool. Someone appointed out fo the national pool would be charged to SecNav, not to the district/state with no qualified candidates.

It is illegal to charge a candidate from one district/state to another district/state since the law imposes a residency requirement. I won't say it doesn't happen, but it shouldn't based on the law.

The other option is a Superintendent's nomination. He has up to 50 per year. So, if USNA really, really wants a candidate who doesn't have a nom, this is one source. In recent years. fewer than 5 candidates per year have reportedly received Supe's noms. So, while it's available, it's not anything a candidate should count on.
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This is the first I'm hearing of a superintendent nomination. Is it possible to initiate the process or is it only used for a special case as described above?
 
Is it possible to initiate the process or is it only used for a special case as described above?
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One cannot apply for a Supe's nom. It's somewhat like a SecNav nom -- it's a source to which appointees can be charged but is not a source to which they can apply.
 
usna1985 said:
One cannot apply for a Supe's nom. It's somewhat like a SecNav nom -- it's a source to which appointees can be charged but is not a source to which they can apply.
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Ohh ok. Thought for a second I was missing out on a nomination source haha
 
My DD's application status shows "Presidential" for nomination even though we didn't get an email or letter about it. (Dad is retired Navy) Does that mean she should still interview with her Congressman next week for USNA and if so, does that make her more competitive if she gets the Congress nom as well? She's applying for both USAFA and USNA and was blessed to recently get a Sen Nom for USAFA. Hopefully she gets into to one of the Academies. This process is so confusing!
 
Presidential noms are not competitive. If you qualify you get one. That alone could be enough but may not be (about 800 people qualify for the 100 appointments that can be slotted to the President). Thus, your DD should definitely continue with her MOC noms. If she has more than one nom, she has more chances to be appointed. For more details on this topic, suggest you read the Nomination FAQ sticky at the top of the Nominations forum.
 
If a candidate posts that they received a MOC and a direct appointment, does that mean that their MOC uses a slate where they designate a top candidate and if they are the top candidate, they receive an immediate appointment?
 
Seahunt said:
If a candidate posts that they received a MOC and a direct appointment, does that mean that their MOC uses a slate where they designate a top candidate and if they are the top candidate, they receive an immediate appointment?
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No way of telling what method is used for the nom. Appointments come from the respective Academy. Even if a nom is in hand, the SA has to review all other aspects of the application. It could be the case where the MOC made his/her decision and submitted nom list to SA well before deadline for slate submissions. SA looked at application, noted nom, said yep, we are offering an appointment now, based on our confidence in this candidate and the competitive situation. The faucet is open, and we will see appointments stream out in various bursts.
 
bub6 said:
Which nominations go toward the current NAPSters?
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NAPSters are required to apply for all eligible nomination sources: MOC, senator, vp, and if eligible, presidential or others. If NAPSter does not get a nom from traditional sources, they will be charged to Sec of Navy.
If a NAPSter does not apply to all eligible nom sources, it could cost them their appointment. This is mandatory.
 
Skipper07 said:
lynn114 said:
My DS has attended many SA days given by our MOC. It was made clear to
Him that demographics do play a role, ie., we live on the east coast, he was told it would be probably be easier to seek a nom to the USAFA, as compared to the USNA and the USMA.
Click to expand...

I have heard similar sentiments. This is likely because east coast kids are more aware of USNA and USMA. I have friends in Oregon and Colorado. Everyone out there seems to want USAFA. Again, because it is what they know most about out.
Click to expand...

Let's hope this helps my DS: applying to USNA, USCG and USAFA. (Man it's been a lot of essays! I think I have heard all of his so much I could almost recite most of them by heart!)
 
I hope this is the right place to ask this, I figure there is no need to start another thread:

My DS has gotten a Nomination from one MOC to USAFA (Yippeeee!) Is there anything he can do to hope that he gets one to USNA from another of our MOC's? He got all his applications in way back in early November. OR, is it all just a waiting game at this point?

Looking at things, he may have a better chance of being looked at by USNA and USCG because of our geographic location (Pacific Northwest) as there just might not be as many applicants from our area to the way east coast places. (Of course, this could all be speculation- who knows.)

So many nerves, so much waiting. Patience, patience, hoping for patience. ;)
 
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