Post-Graduate Engineering Possibilities

If the OPs objective after Five-and-Dive is to be a hands-on engineer, I'd have to agree he could be somewhat disadvantaged in the job market. USNA doesn't teach engineering in the same way that schools like MIT and GT do. USNA is training, first and foremost, leaders. That said, my husband's California-based satellite communications company can't seem to hire SA grads with engineering degrees fast enough. They don't do the day-to-day engineering work - they're managers, VPs, or director-level people. As in the military, they're in charge of managing others and working toward a common purpose. Their discipline and teamwork make them highly desirable - and highly paid. So, it all boils down to what type of job the OP wants when he leaves the Navy.
 
I agree with 2020vision. I was actually not an engineering major at USNA, but sort of fell into in my civilian career early on and then earned an MS in systems. If your goal is align a career with what a young engineer from GT or VT would do right out of college as a junior engineer you won’t have the experience. As you can see the views on an engineering degree from USNA vary. A USNA education is well rounded. The engineering dept is very good, small classes, dedicated staff. You won’t ever have a class taught by a TA. The professors are dedicated. They love helping Mids and mentoring them. There are research opportunities and internships, but they won’t be the same as at MIT. And that is a good thing. USNA is producing officers, not engineers. There are still plenty of opportunities in these fields. I have watched my classmates colleagues and others move through their engineering careers and all my USNA friends have done very well whether it was engineering, teaching or even politics.

If you want to serve your country, then a SA is a great place. Sure your could go to MIT or GT and study engineering, but if you do ROTC you will have many of the same obligations such as labs, PT, summer training and then 5 years of service. You won’t have 3 months of summer to intern as you will have at least a 4 week period you are on cruise or some other training. When you complete your service, companies tend to hire officers for their leadership and management ability in engineering firms. They bring a wealth of experience in time manamegement, leadership, management, communication skills among many others.
 
If it's Aerospace he's looking at, I have a couple of friends high up in the field. They told DS to go to a top 20 engineering school, do well, then go get your master's degree at MIT or GT or another top five school. MIT is a little bit of a crapshoot unless you really really stand out - so many applicants, it's a head-scratcher why some don't get in. It's much easier to get in as a grad student than an undergrad - providing you did well. That's the Plan B civilian route for DS.
 
Time Management, communication and leadership is a big selling point. Whatever their Major they are trained to be leaders. That counts a lot from what I have been told.
 
I've had this conversation with DS over the last three months (he's a junior shooting for USNA with engineering interest but his primary goal is to be an officer). I did ask questions on this forum about USNA rigor w/r to engineering and did some due diligence with colleagues, SA grads that are now engineers, and engineering professors at engineering-heavy schools. I am satisfied that USNA does a very good job of laying the foundations for engineering for the disciplines they offer majors in.

I think it is important for anyone going to SAs (and non-SAs) who eventually wants a technically based engineering career (as opposed to a management/leadership career) to understand that you really need to think about going to graduate school - an MS for sure. That's not to say that you cannot have a technically based engineering career with a BS (many do) but it is now becoming much more common to see MS degrees with additional specialization. The advantage of entering an MS program is that you have the opportunity for (a) "remedials" - i.e. undergraduate-level classes that fill in the specializations that you might have missed in your undergraduate program or background classes you may need if you are, for example, pursuing a civil engineering MS with a mechanical engineering BS and (b) developing specializations through graduate research, graduate-level classes, seminars, etc. that make you more prepared. Engineering programs at the undergraduate level, first and foremost, train young minds to become problem solvers. That's what you do in undergraduate engineering programs - you become inculcated in solving problems. Many undergrads in engineering never realize what's happening to them - then, one day, when they're at home trying to figure out why the garage door opens when they turn on the bathroom light, they use those problem solving skills for something totally unrelated to what they studied in school. I suspect (very strongly) why the SAs are so focused on engineering - it is great training in becoming problem solvers of the first degree. To solve problems, while under stress seems to be what they want and need in an officer.

I'm confident that if an SA grad with an engineering degree five-and-dives (or even longer service), they will be well-prepared to enter a grad program and with a bit of "remedials", have a great technical engineering career - because they have been prepared with the basics, know how to solve problems, and have a all the other things that their civilian classmates may not have (leadership, maturity, confidence, experience, work ethic). I've seen this first hand. Thermo, statics, diff-eq, dynamics, SofM, fluid mechanics - they are the basics of engineering and they don't change with time.
 
I think they all look at a MS, MBA, Law or any other post graduate and are well prepared for it.
 
OP, from what I've seen - the internship and research opportunities at USNA are simply outstanding. For example, google "USNA Trident Scholar Program". I'm curious to hear what other universities you are comparing USNA to?
 
dakine said:
OP, from what I've seen - the internship and research opportunities at USNA are simply outstanding. For example, google "USNA Trident Scholar Program". I'm curious to hear what other universities you are comparing USNA to?
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I've been looking at the engineering programs at schools like Michigan and Johns Hopkins. I've visited a bunch of the labs and maker spaces there and they all offer really cool opportunities to work on projects with professors or design things in clubs. There is definitely a huge appeal to the academy and I think I would thrive in the lifestyle there, but I don't know what the engineering opportunities there are like.
 
Keep in mind that at a university, undergrads take a back seat, when it comes to doing research and gaining access to lab spaces. Grad students and professors take priority. However, at USNA, there are no grad students, so the amazing lab facilities there (think world's 2nd largest water tank, for example) are available solely for the mids.
 
As a former engineering professor, I can say with a good deal of certainty that undergraduate research opportunities in big engineering schools are quite limited. What you can do (if this is what you want) is do a lot of scutt work for a grad student - hours of tedious, mind-numbing lab tests - for not very much money and no authorship credit. Very rarely do you get to do "research". The old adage is that you learn to do research for your MS thesis and you actually do research for your PhD. That' somewhat outdated but not entirely incorrect. Engineering undergrad programs are absolutely packed with required course work and very little room for electives. Most universities MUST limit required graduate credits for a BS to about 136 semester hours. ABET accreditation requires a senior-year capstone design project, which involves working in teams. There is no room for "research" unless you are super advanced and happen to validate out of freshman year, for example. You may get access to cool labs but it is unlikely that you will be doing "research" in it. As most will find out, engineering labs are not as fun as the cool gear would suggest.
 
Chiming in here- I suggest you research Engineering Duty Officer. My 2/c son is a Mech E major and is really hoping to use his degree after commissioning (but keeping pilot in the back of his mind until after summer training) and it was suggested to him that he speak with an EDO - Engineering Duty Officer- assigned to the Yard. The interview really opened his eyes and he is excited about pursuing EDO for his 1st choice service selection. (We have another son who is EOD and personally I am thankful for the switch up in the acronym !!!) I don't want to risk citing some incorrect info, but a master's degree from NPS or MIT is required - paid for by USN of course!
 
If he thinks Pilot or Masters in any field and the Navy pays for it he has much longer commitment. Look at about ten years.
 
I'm a USAFA and MS/PhD from Stanford in Aero/Astro. The two programs have entirely different purposes, as stated here, so are hard to compare directly. Is engineering harder at Stanford than the SA's? Yes, without question. The competition is stiffer and there are no other commitments like sports and military, though most Stanford students are well balanced and stay that way for life. Does a Stanford education prepare you more thoroughly for the work world? I would say no. My engineering group hires SA grads faster than even Stanford students given their problem solving skills, ability to think outside the box, and an absolute determination to get the job done, despite any obstacles. Feel free to PM if you want more details...I do many of the interviews for Stanford kids in my geography and many of those also consider SA's and have high success rates at admissions and commissioning.
 
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proudmom13

CMU is an outstanding engineering school - especially undergraduate. I have a second year intern coming to work with me this summer in water treatment engineering from CMU and she has had excellent, practical training.
 
ders_dad said:
proudmom13

CMU is an outstanding engineering school - especially undergraduate. I have a second year intern coming to work with me this summer in water treatment engineering from CMU and she has had excellent, practical training.
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I agree with ders dad, @proudmom13 , in my completely biased opinion! ;)
 
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