Help deciding which academy to attend

Perspective that’s awesome. Congratulation on your Appointments.

You have a very valid question and an important decision to make very soon. So let me give it a shot answering your question since my DS just went through evaluating Cyber Ops in the Army Navy Air Force and Coast Guard meeting with all services in active duty.

It is very clear that Cyber Ops has become very important to all services. All services are investing in Cyber Ops and expanding capabilities and roles. All services don’t have enough enlisted and officers to fill their demand. The role of officer in Cyber Ops is to analyze the threat, strategize, report intelligence to their commands and share intel within the joint command communities including the NSA and other intelligence organizations and with our allies. This is not a secret. What we learned from this interaction, it is actually the enlisted men/women doing the programming and data analyses. Officers for most part work as strategist, policy analyst, and mission managers. Yes there’s probably Officer Programmers but they are more likely also managing other enlisted programmers.

Among the Academies only Naval Academy offer Cyber Ops as a major today. Other Academies offer Computer Science and Cyber Club as the path to Cyber Ops. So if you are seeking dedicated Cyber Ops as an academic major, it is the Navy. One of few SMCs that offer Cyber Ops as major is Norwich. Norwich is DoD approved for Cyber Ops as a Major.

Non of the Ivies MIT Stanford are DoD certified even though they offer certification courses in the discipline. I looked into this because I am taking grad courses in Cyber Ops now through Stanford. And my DS is auditing the same course.

Today, no Academies offer Cyber Ops as a Major except Navy. And USNA has been designated as the National Cyber Ops Center of Excellence with a major investment with secure modern building, a dedicated facility at USNA. So this major and field will get a lot of DoD funding with career mobility. Same is true in the civilian sector with industry expected to grow to $400 billion by 2028. Perhaps other SAs will adopt Cyber Ops too in few years but there’s no discussion on this yet.

Army has slowly adopted Cyber Ops as a career. In recent years, it has branched from Signals with human capital coming from both Signals and MI to fill the demand. Today, Cyber is a branch on its own. Army does not encourage new butter bars to branch directly into Cyber Ops. In fact, most can’t. Most have branch detail to do their Platoon Leader role in Infantry Armor Artillery then transfer to MI or to Cyber Ops after 3 years. Cyber Ops want Captains! MI is the same way. One of my protege in the Army is a Colonel and Commander of a MI Brigade. He didn’t get to do MI until he became a young Captain. Similar now for Cyber Ops. That’s the Army.

Today, we learned that to go Cyber Ops directly from Air Force, you have to be Comp Sci major. But many don’t do that. Many come from other Air Force and Army jobs before going into Cyber. Most people we met in the Army Air Force and Navy non went directly to Cyber Ops.

Air Force and Navy can branch into Cyber Ops upon graduation. But there’s cost to doing this to your career. If you go directly to Cyber, you will not know the real Air Force nor the real Navy. Why, because you lack the field and junior officer platoon experience on ship land and Air. If you start in Cyber that’s your career. Perhaps you can branch into Intelligence since Intel and Cyber work so closely together. But you cannot go to ship air land jobs to command soldiers airmen and sailors. Because you don’t have the relevant leadership experience in other communities.

Cyber and Intel jobs are better met if you have relevant field experience first. So you don’t have to major in Cyber Ops to go Cyber Ops. You can major in anything you like and go Cyber Ops and each service will send you to school to get the technical skills you need to do your job. That’s the current position in the service.

So in our conclusion, and in our decision, my DS will not pick the Academy or college or service for Cyber Ops or for Cyber Career. You pick the Academy or college because that’s where you feel the most affinity and want to build your fraternity. If you choose the Naval Academy, it is a bonus to go Cyber Ops Major. Although nicer to have, don’t think you will get special privileges during your career in Cyber Ops because you took it as a college major since you will have plenty of opportunities to take grad courses on DoD dime while on the job if needed. It is all about how you perform on the job during your career.

Also no guarantee you will remain in Cyber Ops in the military nor in civilian career. Average college students consider changing their majors 2-3 times during college.

I hope this has been useful for your upcoming consideration choosing your Academy. It has been for us.

Thank you for the information! This does really help to clear up some of my questions.

Although I know that I would like to pursue cyber security / computer programming, there are a couple of other concerns in play:
  • I feel like West Point may be the best leadership academy, and I feel that I am a natural leader. For this reason, I have a hard time choosing to not go to West Point.
  • A concern that I have about attending West Point is that it is, as far as I perceive it, the "least" technical of the big three. I personally really enjoy technical fields (like STEM), but I would like to also apply my strengths as a leader. I also understand that there are technical fields at West Point, but it seems to not have the same focus on STEM as, for example, the Naval Academy.
  • Which leads me to my next point: I understand the Naval Academy to be the "most" technical of the big three - that is, it puts the most emphasis on technical fields and may, by extension, offer the best techincal education (?).
  • A concern that I have about attending the Naval Academy is that I would rather not be on a boat for a year. This might not be a plausible concern... maybe I'm just unsure about the huge change that it will be.
  • I find the Air Force appealing because I have heard that it has the "best" cyber program, and is competitively technical with the Naval Academy. Additionally, I live in Colorado, and I could visit family during my weekends off. I should mention that geography does not play a huge role in my preference of academy.
  • A concern that I have about attending the Air Force Academy is that, as emwvmi01 mentioned above, the Air Force is "not a full branch". I'm a little concerned by this notion, but I don't have a huge amount of evidence to support that claim. I know that Air Force is by far the youngest of the big three, but I also understand that it is putting a great emphasis on technology and cyber security.
One thing that I have looked into the help me decide which academy has the best cyber program is the results of the Cyber Defense Exercise (CDX). Every year, the academies have a cyber-based competition, and one academy wins. In 2014 and 2016, USMA won, while in 2015 and 2017, USNA won. USMA has, however, won the CDX award many more times than any other academy. Maybe I'm being too specific / looking at this issue with too narrow of a scope, but the results of the CDX seem to reflect historical control by West Point, but a modern feud between USMA and USNA for cyber superiority. The results of the CDX (http://bit.ly/2pgeijz) seem to favor USNA and USMA, while USAFA has not won since 2013. (But it looks like USAFA may have stopped competing in the CDX after 2015. Does anybody know why?)

Thank you to everybody for the help!
 
Regarding cyber, you have to remember that one of the Air Force's 3 core missions is cyber - our mission is to fly, fight, and win in air, space, and cyberspace. We ARE the cyber branch of the military, and as such, resources are going to continue to be put into the Air Force to develop our cyber capabilities.

As far as leadership, you will get as much leadership as you want at any of the academies. They are all leadership oriented and all of them will have opportunities for those who seek them. After graduation your job is more likely to dictate how much you lead as opposed to your branch.

Also, to emphasize again what others have said, you have to remember that you're not guaranteed a cyber slot out of any of the Academies. Think about which branch best caters to your second choice and that might guide you better than your focus on cyber.
 
I have been offered an appointment to USMA, USNA, and USAFA. I am having a somewhat difficult time deciding which academy to attend.
Any advice? Thank you!

My advice is to not brag about triple appointments on a forum where posters are feeling tremendous stress right now hoping for just one offer. Not cool.

That being said, the above posters make great points.

I was sincerely not trying to brag in any way. I am honestly having a hard time deciding which academy is right for me.

I understand that many people on these forums are stressed about hoping to receive an offer to an academy, and I really do hope that everybody can end up at the academy that they want to.
Seriously, don't worry about it. You have some great opportunities ahead of you.
 
Perspective. I think you’re getting buried in to too much detail of one particular career. Cyber Ops Cyber Space will be there for you and others anytime if you want it. Cyber career in the military will be available for you whether you go Army Navy or Air Force. So like many poster said you can go Cyber from any service because it is relevant in all service.

If I were you I would not choose an Academy because I want Cyber. I will choose that Academy because:

1. You like that service. Academy leads you to that service ultimately.

2. You like more than 1 career in that service. Because you want options and sometimes you don’t get what you want initially. And often you have to start somewhere else before doing Cyber. And no guarantee you will like Cyber until you do Cyber.

3. You want that particular academy to build your fraternity, your resume, your brand for the rest of your life

I would not Nickel and dime which academy is stronger in STEM or Cyber. Or stronger in Leadership. They all are strong in these areas. But it is true you will have to take more tech classes at USNA and USAFA. It is true Navy offers more diverse communities to choose from. If you don’t like boats then Navy may not be your best fit. Even as Pilot, you have to fly from the Carrier.

And if you don’t like boat because you think you stay on boat for 12 months straight, that doesn’t happen. You deploy under way and do port calls and return to home port over time. But never heard for 12 months straight.

I believe you can commission directly into Cyber from the Navy and Air Force but again most don’t do this from the Naval Academy and West Point. In the Army and Navy they prefer you do Cyber when you’re O-3 so you can bring more experience to the team with a better understanding of the combat battle space before Cyber Space.

I think you can in the Air Force as well but even in the Air Force I’ve seen people switch in from Intel and bring that Intel knowledge and experience to the Cyber space. And grounding in non Cyber first brings more experience to the team and to yourself in your service and to the joint command team.

You don’t want to be one dimensional in any career.

I met 3 siblings from Denver, Colorado. They all went to West Point. Afterward their 5 yeas, one went to Wharton, one went to Columbia to do their MBAs. Another is now applying to MBA Program. The last one will also leave the service soon. One did MI, Logistics, and another Ranger and MI.

I asked why they didn’t go to USAFA. They said they never thought of it. Their parents still live in Denver but they all lived and traveled in many places during their careers. So you being close home for 4 years and attending USAFA is probably going to be a short reason to go.

We joke that you join the Army you check into a tent when deploy. You join the Navy you check into a MARRIOTT when you deploy. I don’t have one for the Navy but I’m sure it’s better than getting a tent. Maybe a Marine doesn’t even have a tent. So that’s a rough sum up of how folks think.

My grand father is a retired one star General in the Air Force. He flew P51 Mustang, Saber, 5F, and Phantom F4. I used to sit in F4 Phantom cockpit and dreamed of going Air Force. But I didn’t. Things change as you grow up. And so will you, many times. Don’t get lost in small detail. Think about the big picture.

This is your 10-15 years from today. I would sum it up like this.

Pick a Brand of choice
Education
Fraternity
Service and Life Style
Career
Grad school
Career in Mil or Civ

You have good choices and all are going to make you successful and happy!
 
I realize this candidate is planning to do Cyber, not become a pilot, but I have always loved this post by Gasdoc, even though I'm AF (but not a pilot). . . ;)

22 December 2005
Young Man,


Congratulations on your selection to both the Naval and Air Force Academies. Your goal of becoming a fighter pilot is impressive and a fine way to serve your country. As you requested, I'd be happy to share some insight into which service would be the best choice. Each service has a distinctly different culture. You need to ask yourself "Which one am I more likely to thrive in?"

USAF Snapshot: The USAF is exceptionally well organized and well run. Their training programs are terrific. All pilots are groomed to meet high standards for knowledge and professionalism. Their aircraft are top-notch and extremely well maintained. Their facilities are excellent. Their enlisted personnel are the brightest and the best trained. The USAF is homogeneous and macro. No matter where you go, you'll know what to expect, what is expected of you, and you'll be given the training & tools you need to meet those expectations. You will never be put in a situation over your head. Over a 20-year career, you will be home for most important family events. Your Mom would want you to be an Air Force pilot...so would your wife. Your Dad would want your sister to marry one.

Navy Snapshot: Aviators are part of the Navy, but so are Black Shoes (surface warfare) and Bubble Heads (submariners). Furthermore, the Navy is split into two distinctly different Fleets (West and East Coast). The Navy is heterogeneous and micro. Your squadron is your home; it may be great, average, or awful. A squadron can go from one extreme to the other before you know it. You will spend months preparing for cruise and months on cruise. The quality of the aircraft varies directly with the availability of parts. Senior Navy enlisted are salt of the earth; you'll be proud if you earn their respect. Junior enlisted vary from terrific to the troubled kid the judge made join the service. You will be given the opportunity to lead these people during your career; you will be humbled and get your hands dirty. The quality of your training will vary and sometimes you will be over your head. You will miss many important family events. There will be long stretches of tedious duty aboard ship. You will fly in very bad weather and/or at night and you will be scared many times. You will fly with legends in the Navy and they will kick your *** until you become a lethal force. And some days - when the scheduling Gods have smiled upon you - your jet will catapult into a glorious morning over a far-away sea and you will be drop-jawed that someone would pay you to do it. The hottest girl in the bar wants to meet the Naval Aviator. That bar is in Singapore.

Bottom line, son, if you gotta ask...pack warm & good luck in Colorado.

Banzai
 
And one more . . . ;)

How to Tell the Difference Between the Branches of the US Armed Forces!

If you give the command "SECURE THE BUILDING", here is what the different services would do:
The NAVY would turn out the lights and lock the doors.
The ARMY would surround the building with defensive fortifications, tanks and concertina wire.
The MARINE CORPS would assault the building, using overlapping fields of fire from all appropriate points on the perimeter.
The AIR FORCE would take out a three-year lease with an option to buy. ;)

Old joke, but a classic . . .

The COAST GUARD would bring the beer and chips.
 
From the parents' standpoint: choose the Academy from which travel to your home (or other place you might return to) is easiest. USNA is a 5 hour drive from the Steeler Nation, USMA about 9 (traffic). Colorado is a good 24 hour drive... and expensive for flying.

If all of them have what you want: what criteria will you use? Do you want to be an Army officer? OK - long deployments, ugly undergarments. Navy? Well, golly, if you don't like cold water spraying in your face (and long deployments)- perhaps that's not your gig. USAFA: nice outfits, great housing, shorter deployments. Can you see my bias?
 
From the parents' standpoint: choose the Academy from which travel to your home (or other place you might return to) is easiest. USNA is a 5 hour drive from the Steeler Nation, USMA about 9 (traffic). Colorado is a good 24 hour drive... and expensive for flying.

If all of them have what you want: what criteria will you use? Do you want to be an Army officer? OK - long deployments, ugly undergarments. Navy? Well, golly, if you don't like cold water spraying in your face (and long deployments)- perhaps that's not your gig. USAFA: nice outfits, great housing, shorter deployments. Can you see my bias?

You mean - like this? [emoji16] whee.



Or, if the aircraft carrier is too high and safe, try a destroyer:



Now, I’m awaiting our USCG community to paste their smaller cutters - I know they’ve got some good ones.

Seriously, sea duty is no joke. These ships are “on cruise.” If you get queasy, don’t like being out of sight of land for long periods of time, taking Navy showers (dampen, turn off, soap, rinse) and working long hours during operational periods, in an industrial environment, this is something to factor in. Note the planes on the carrier, helos on the small boy - many Navy and Marine Corps airframes go to sea.
 
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+1 Capt.MJ
And to add to that, if you don't want to be on a "boat" for a year, avoid Subs at all costs. The rest of the fleet are ships. Birdfarms rock if you fly, Otherwise it pretty much is just rocky ie: rough road. As for Tin Cans, now they are E ticket rides and usually you can usually walk off on to the pier at liberty call. Anywhere!
 
+1 Capt.MJ
And to add to that, if you don't want to be on a "boat" for a year, avoid Subs at all costs. The rest of the fleet are ships. Birdfarms rock if you fly, Otherwise it pretty much is just rocky ie: rough road. As for Tin Cans, now they are E ticket rides and usually you can usually walk off on to the pier at liberty call. Anywhere!

DS is interested in subs, so this peaked my curiosity. Non military here, however. Can you expand on the E Ticket rides? What does that mean?
 
DS is interested in subs, so this peaked my curiosity. Non military here, however. Can you expand on the E Ticket rides? What does that mean?
Just an inter-platform rivalry that goes on between the various communities. Birdfarms are aircraft carriers, usually with 5K crews onboard that normally ride smooth as silk (minimal rocking and rolling). Subs I can't tell much about the ride because that crew is a rather close knit & mouth bunch. Don't get into port much either if my understanding is correct. Now for the tin can Navy [emoji3][emoji3][emoji3], Constantly rocking, rolling, pitching, shuddering and basically the best ride in the park or at sea as it were. ONCE YOU GET USED TO IT. Best sleeping platform, small tight crews and pierside liberty dang near anywhere a ship can pull into and just plain fun to ride, hence the E ticket reference.
 
Although I know that I would like to pursue cyber security / computer programming, there are a couple of other concerns in play:
  • A concern that I have about attending the Air Force Academy is that, as emwvmi01 mentioned above, the Air Force is "not a full branch". I'm a little concerned by this notion, but I don't have a huge amount of evidence to support that claim. I know that Air Force is by far the youngest of the big three, but I also understand that it is putting a great emphasis on technology and cyber security.

The Air Force isn't a full branch? That's news to me....
 
I know it might depend on how one defines "full branch" but I know of no way that the Air Force isn't comparable to and fully equal with the other services.
 
A concern that I have about attending the Air Force Academy is that, as emwvmi01 mentioned above, the Air Force is "not a full branch". I'm a little concerned by this notion, but I don't have a huge amount of evidence to support that claim. I know that Air Force is by far the youngest of the big three, but I also understand that it is putting a great emphasis on technology and cyber security.
It's a full branch. We also have the best accommodations:biggrin:
 
I think they meant the Cyber AFSCs. "Branch" to the Army is different than in AF speak.
 
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