No waiver requested= no appointment?

A

AFhopeful1197

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Feb 12, 2018
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My DS is still waiting to see if USAFA will pursue a waiver on his behalf. As it is now mid March and the DQ occurred a month ago, is the writing on the wall for him to not received an appointment? I know that they will put forth a waiver request if you are deemed competitive. He emailed his admissions counselor to inquire a couple of weeks ago, and basically was told to sit tight and they are working on regular admissions now.
Just wondering...
Thanks
 
You will find many threads on USAF and the other SA forums of Ds waiting months pending waiver review. My DS has been waiting since Dec. I think I read another post that had been waiting even earlier in the Fall. My DS finally decided to write a respectful inquiry email to his contact this past week and was told 'if you are determined to be qualified, we will initiate a waiver'....i assume this means they haven't reviewed his file yet because if they had, either waiver request or TWE...but all still pending. What worries me the most with the wait is if they do review and determine the need for more remedials/MD visits, whether that could be accomplished in time??? One post said all medical had to be cleared by April 15 !!
 
I am also in a similar situation. I have been DQ’d since fall and haven’t heard anything regarding my waiver status. Hopefully the fact that I haven’t received TWE means that I am still in consideration for USAFA.
 
DS is in same boat... he was DQed in Sep. He spoke to admission last week and they said that his application is being reviewed... I guess he will find out this week.
 
SAnew22 said:
You will find many threads on USAF and the other SA forums of Ds waiting months pending waiver review. My DS has been waiting since Dec. I think I read another post that had been waiting even earlier in the Fall. My DS finally decided to write a respectful inquiry email to his contact this past week and was told 'if you are determined to be qualified, we will initiate a waiver'....i assume this means they haven't reviewed his file yet because if they had, either waiver request or TWE...but all still pending. What worries me the most with the wait is if they do review and determine the need for more remedials/MD visits, whether that could be accomplished in time??? One post said all medical had to be cleared by April 15 !!
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I hear you. The calendar is moving too fast.
 
This is very hard . . . this post won't make it any easier, but may explain some things to some about what the situation is . . .

Approximately 10,000-12,000 applicants complete their applications to the "Big 3" SAs each year (USAFA, USMA & USNA). About 4,000 receive a Congressional Nomination. About 2,400 of those are considered "qualified academically and in physical aptitude (CFA)" by the SA. (Check out the Class Profiles from the SAs on line for the most current numbers) There are 1200 slots at each of the Big 3 each year. About 500 of those go to the Principal Noms . . . about 200 go to those with LOAs/recruits/prep school . . . that leaves about 500 slots and about 1700 candidates . . . The SA will select from the 1700 those that best meet the SA's need to compile a "Class" that best represents the make up of our society and our military. Gender, ethnic and geographic diversity is required and the Admissions office does its best to meet the guidance it has received. You have to understand that if you made it into that final bunch of about 2400, you have attained some pretty rarified air . . . the SA would like to have all of you, but they can only take 1200 . . . that does NOT mean they have ranked ordered those remaining 1700 and picked the top 500 . . . all of the remaining 1700 are "qualified academically and in physical aptitude" . . . some will also need a medical waiver. The effort on the medical waiver first goes to the 500 Principal Noms and the LOAs/recruits/prep school that may need a medical waiver. The medical waiver effort next goes to those the SA selects from the 1700 to fill the 500 slots. Not everybody that is considered for a medical waiver gets it and sometimes the time does run out . . . Having said all that, make sure you have a good "Plan B" in place and focus on that . . . hopefully you have applied for a ROTC scholarship and have a great civilian University or Senior Military College (Citadel, UNG, Norwich, Texas A&M, VA Tech or VMI) in mind . . . if the SA appointment comes through, then that is AWESOME . . . if it doesn't . . . you've got another great path to attain your commission . . . do NOT feel you are second rate if the SA appointment doesn't come through. . . for instance . . .

People are sometimes under the incorrect impression that those selected to go to an SA are "superior" to those that earn a 4 yr (or 3 yr) national ROTC scholarship. To get a 4 yr (or 3 yr) national ROTC scholarship today, it typically takes a "SA-quality" record with all the same varsity letter sports achievements, team captain, club officer, other leadership, physical fitness, good grades and high SAT/ACT test scores. In some cases it is harder to get the ROTC scholarship than the SA appointment. In recent years, the AF was only awarding 300 AFROTC scholarships each year (a mix of 3 and 4 year) while USAFA was still making 1200 appointments each year. For the Army, they usually only award about 600 4 yr scholarships each year while USMA still makes 1200 appointments each year. (Total Army ROTC national scholarships has been around 2500 each year with 600 being 4 yr and 1900 being 3 yr.) I don't have any experience with the Navy.

An SA candidate from a very competitive area like NoVa will earn only one of the 10 nominations from a MOC, but be ranked low on the MOC's slate because of all the great candidates (NoVa will have 200-300 applicants to each senator and each NoVa Representative -- typically 50 get interviews and 10 are seletected by each MOC usually with no duplication). A candidate from a not-so-competive region will get one or more nominations and be ranked high on the MOC's slate. The candidate that is ranked low from the very competitive region will have a record that is way better than the candidate from the not-so-competitive region. In the end, the candiate from the not-so-competitive region will get the SA appointment, and the candidate from the very competitive region will not get an SA appointment, even though they have a better record. Every year there are SA candidates that get an SA appointment, but don't qualify for a national ROTC scholarship -- nationally, they were not competitive -- they "won their MOC's slate" for the SA appointment, but compared to the national pool, they didn't make the cut (this is the geographic diversity factor) -- and every year there are great SA candidates that don't get the SA appointment (because they didn't win their MOC's slate in a very competitive region) but do earn a 4 yr (or 3 yr) national ROTC scholarship because they did compete well within the national pool.

When we went through it, DS was being offered an early appt to USAFA, but was denied entry by the USAFA docs because of a medical issue. We found out very early in the process and he switched everything over to USMA and AROTC because we discovered the Army gave waivers for his condition. He got one of the Congressional Noms from NoVa to USMA, but it wasn't a Principal Nom. He also was awarded a 4 yr AROTC scholarship to VMI and AROTC granted him a medical waiver. USMA never put him forward for the waiver, and he did not receive an appointment to USMA. USMA did keep him on their "almost list" right up to the very end (late April/early May) before they sent the TWE . . . by that time he was already focused for VMI and AROTC . . . He is completing his junior year and will graduate and commission summer 2019 . . .

Best wishes to you all and thank you for your willingness to serve
 
Falcon A said:
This is very hard . . . this post won't make it any easier, but may explain some things to some about what the situation is . . .

Approximately 10,000-12,000 applicants complete their applications to the "Big 3" SAs each year (USAFA, USMA & USNA). About 4,000 receive a Congressional Nomination. About 2,400 of those are considered "qualified academically and in physical aptitude (CFA)" by the SA. (Check out the Class Profiles from the SAs on line for the most current numbers) There are 1200 slots at each of the Big 3 each year. About 500 of those go to the Principal Noms . . . about 200 go to those with LOAs/recruits/prep school . . . that leaves about 500 slots and about 1700 candidates . . . The SA will select from the 1700 those that best meet the SA's need to compile a "Class" that best represents the make up of our society and our military. Gender, ethnic and geographic diversity is required and the Admissions office does its best to meet the guidance it has received. You have to understand that if you made it into that final bunch of about 2400, you have attained some pretty rarified air . . . the SA would like to have all of you, but they can only take 1200 . . . that does NOT mean they have ranked ordered those remaining 1700 and picked the top 500 . . . all of the remaining 1700 are "qualified academically and in physical aptitude" . . . some will also need a medical waiver. The effort on the medical waiver first goes to the 500 Principal Noms and the LOAs/recruits/prep school that may need a medical waiver. The medical waiver effort next goes to those the SA selects from the 1700 to fill the 500 slots. Not everybody that is considered for a medical waiver gets it and sometimes the time does run out . . . Having said all that, make sure you have a good "Plan B" in place and focus on that . . . hopefully you have applied for a ROTC scholarship and have a great civilian University or Senior Military College (Citadel, UNG, Norwich, Texas A&M, VA Tech or VMI) in mind . . . if the SA appointment comes through, then that is AWESOME . . . if it doesn't . . . you've got another great path to attain your commission . . . do NOT feel you are second rate if the SA appointment doesn't come through. . . for instance . . .

People are sometimes under the incorrect impression that those selected to go to an SA are "superior" to those that earn a 4 yr (or 3 yr) national ROTC scholarship. To get a 4 yr (or 3 yr) national ROTC scholarship today, it typically takes a "SA-quality" record with all the same varsity letter sports achievements, team captain, club officer, other leadership, physical fitness, good grades and high SAT/ACT test scores. In some cases it is harder to get the ROTC scholarship than the SA appointment. In recent years, the AF was only awarding 300 AFROTC scholarships each year (a mix of 3 and 4 year) while USAFA was still making 1200 appointments each year. For the Army, they usually only award about 600 4 yr scholarships each year while USMA still makes 1200 appointments each year. (Total Army ROTC national scholarships has been around 2500 each year with 600 being 4 yr and 1900 being 3 yr.) I don't have any experience with the Navy.

An SA candidate from a very competitive area like NoVa will earn only one of the 10 nominations from a MOC, but be ranked low on the MOC's slate because of all the great candidates (NoVa will have 200-300 applicants to each senator and each NoVa Representative -- typically 50 get interviews and 10 are seletected by each MOC usually with no duplication). A candidate from a not-so-competive region will get one or more nominations and be ranked high on the MOC's slate. The candidate that is ranked low from the very competitive region will have a record that is way better than the candidate from the not-so-competitive region. In the end, the candiate from the not-so-competitive region will get the SA appointment, and the candidate from the very competitive region will not get an SA appointment, even though they have a better record. Every year there are SA candidates that get an SA appointment, but don't qualify for a national ROTC scholarship -- nationally, they were not competitive -- they "won their MOC's slate" for the SA appointment, but compared to the national pool, they didn't make the cut (this is the geographic diversity factor) -- and every year there are great SA candidates that don't get the SA appointment (because they didn't win their MOC's slate in a very competitive region) but do earn a 4 yr (or 3 yr) national ROTC scholarship because they did compete well within the national pool.

When we went through it, DS was being offered an early appt to USAFA, but was denied entry by the USAFA docs because of a medical issue. We found out very early in the process and he switched everything over to USMA and AROTC because we discovered the Army gave waivers for his condition. He got one of the Congressional Noms from NoVa to USMA, but it wasn't a Principal Nom. He also was awarded a 4 yr AROTC scholarship to VMI and AROTC granted him a medical waiver. USMA never put him forward for the waiver, and he did not receive an appointment to USMA. USMA did keep him on their "almost list" right up to the very end (late April/early May) before they sent the TWE . . . by that time he was already focused for VMI and AROTC . . . He is completing his junior year and will graduate and commission summer 2019 . . .

Best wishes to you all and thank you for your willingness to serve
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Excellent explanation! We are still waiting in NoVA and I must admit it is excruciating!

I have a USAFA 2021'er who was a recruited athlete and had her appointment in October. My other DD is not a recruited athlete but has a congressional, senatorial and presidential nomination but no appointment. We are fearful that the exact scenario you described is playing out for her. She is focused on her plan B which includes a Type 2 AFROTC scholarship (She is a non-tech major.) and a college acceptance to an excellent VA school.

Here is my question: Does USAFA factor in desired major when looking at a student?
 
The effort on the medical waiver first goes to the 500 Principal Noms
I highly doubt that each academy has 500 principal nominees. I would estimate the number to be much less than 100 nominees have been given "principal" nomineee status by their MOC. Nothing to base that on but casual observation and common sense.

Think about it... 100 senators and 435 congressmen. Each getting the right to name one principal nominee. That would mean all but 35 did so. No way.

This is an example of why we need to verify much of what we read on the forum.
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^^^^^
We will agree to disagree . . .

As you say their are 535 MOCs. They each have a right to name a Principal Nom . . . while some don't even bother to provide any nominations (that number is few) . . . most do provided nominations and most name a Principal Nom . . . regardless, when they don't the SA will select the #1 from their MOC slate, and that in effect acts like a Principal Nom . . . the top person on each MOC's slate (as long as they are qualified academically, physically and can receive a medical waiver if they need one, will be offered an appointment . . . my 500 number is an estimate . . . but I think it is close to the truth
 
https://polis.house.gov/uploadedfiles/congressional_guide_-_2014.pdf

"Congressional Nomination Methods There are three methods of nomination which may be used by Members of Congress. They are: competitive, principal with competing alternates, and principal with numbered alternates. Members of Congress may use any of these methods at their discretion. Regardless of the nominating method and means of evaluation used, it is strongly encouraged that a full slate of ten nominations be submitted for each vacancy. A higher number of nominees increases the quality of the incoming academy class."
 
USAFAMOM21 said:
Here is my question: Does USAFA factor in desired major when looking at a student?
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I do not think USAFA takes desired major into account . . . as you know, AFROTC does (I think Navy ROTC does too, I don't think Army does -- it didn't when my son was selected for AROTC scholarship) . . . it is another difference in the selection systems between SAs and ROTC . . .

Congrats on her Type 2 AFROTC scholarship! . . . shows she has a great record . . .
 
Falcon A said:
^^^^^
We will agree to disagree . . .

As you say their are 535 MOCs. They each have a right to name a Principal Nom . . . while some don't even bother to provide any nominations (that number is few) . . . most do provided nominations and most name a Principal Nom . . . regardless, when they don't the SA will select the #1 from their MOC slate, and that in effect acts like a Principal Nom . . . the top person on each MOC's slate (as long as they are qualified academically, physically and can receive a medical waiver if they need one, will be offered an appointment . . . my 500 number is an estimate . . . but I think it is close to the truth
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You are wrong. Most do NOT name a principal nominee.
 
There is some good information in the above post but some if it is just wrong. The Academy cannot just pick and choose of who they want. The process is fairly objective giving how subjective an admissions process can be. You can only be charged to a spot that you were nominated for. You can go to each admission's page and find the guide that is given to each MOC. This is not secret information.

Each MOC can have five charged individuals each year so that is around 650. I do not have all the data nationally, but out of the 8 or 10 districts I support through admsiions, only one typically uses the principal method. Form my experience working with admissions, most MOC do not use that method.

The next group is service connected nominations and appointments. Nominations in this area are unlimited but appointments are capped at 100 Presidential and each Branch Secretary may also have 100 for appointments for service connect nominations.

The next 150 are called qualified alternates. They are chosen by WCS OML in order. Yes, in fact every applicant is ranked beginning the day they start the application. The class is then filled with what is called additional appointees. The only rule here is that 3/4 must have received a congressional nomination. This is where recruited athletes, LOA holders, prep school, Foundation scholars get in if they do not win a slate.

So here is the breakdown of a typical class.

MOC: 650
Presidential: 100
Service Connected: 100
Qualified Alternates: 150
Additional Appointees: 200

Now, why does it take so long? Admissions does move around where they slot individuals each year and they also have to process and rank everyone. So if you are #1 on your MOC's slate, they may wait a little longer as the waiver process goes through the motions. Maybe #1 has not accepted yet and he also has offers to both other SAs.

Where @Falcon A is correct is the winning the slate. Technically, all 10 candidates on MOC A's slate may have a WCS over 7000 but MOC B's slate has only one qualified candidate with a WCS of 6000. MOC A #1 candidate will get an offer and MOC B #1 candidate will also get an offer. The other 9 candidates on MOC A may not get offers. While this extreme is the exception, there are always kids who would have gotten on offer instead of a TWE if they lived in a different district. There are also kids who live in a less competitive area that would have competed just fine in other areas.

With all that said, your admissions counselor is the only person who can tell you exactly where you stand. Some are forthcoming with that and others are not. All you can do is put your best foot forward and do your best. As we get later in the admission cycle, you should start focusing on solidifying your Plan B because the opportunities where you can be slotted by admissions is dwindling.
 
USMA 1994 ... Thank you .... This is a good breakdown of how appointments are charged to the various types of nominations ...

I was perhaps inarticulate in my explanation ... I used the short hand of "Principal Nom" to infer winning a MOC's slate, either selected by the MOC or the SA ... I should have made that clear ... Am I incorrect in asserting about 500 candidates each year receive an appointment because they won their MOC's slate, either through identification as a Principal Nom by their MOC or selected by the SA?
 
BTW -- sincerely trying to learn. I believe you have Admissions experience ... If you say the majority of MOCs don't use Principal Nom method I will defer to you. It is just opposite of my small sample personal experience with myself and my DS.
 
Falcon A said:
USMA 1994 ... Thank you .... This is a good breakdown of how appointments are charged to the various types of nominations ...

I was perhaps inarticulate in my explanation ... I used the short hand of "Principal Nom" to infer winning a MOC's slate, either selected by the MOC or the SA ... I should have made that clear ... Am I incorrect in asserting about 500 candidates each year receive an appointment because they won their MOC's slate, either through identification as a Principal Nom by their MOC or selected by the SA?
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You are corrected but the number is closer to 650 as each MOC is allowed 5 so every 5th year they have two slots. Just add 20% to the yearly number gives a pretty good estimate.

There are also a few other categories like MOH winner or a KIA parent but those numbers are minimal each year.
 
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