I recently received an appointment to the USAFA c/o '22, however, I have also spent a year at a local college taking part in AFROTC. If there are any candidates out there who are weighing between USAFA and AFROTC or have been denied by USAFA and would like to know more about AFROTC, I would be more than happy to give my insight on the program! Good luck to everyone!
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AFROTC Experience
- Thread starter mbroks12
- Start date
Pirona2000
Member
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- Dec 20, 2017
- Messages
- 22
Please tell us your experience. I am still waiting for an appointment, or rejection, but do have an AFROTC scholarship.
I recently received an appointment to the USAFA c/o '22, however, I have also spent a year at a local college taking part in AFROTC. If there are any candidates out there who are weighing between USAFA and AFROTC or have been denied by USAFA and would like to know more about AFROTC, I would be more than happy to give my insight on the program! Good luck to everyone!
My son recently gor an appointment to the USAFA. He also has a Type 1 AFROTC scholarship. I’d love to hear the pros and cons of each - and your thoughts.
I figured I would quickly jump in and give my $.02 since I wish I had more information 6 years ago when I was going through the application process to both USAFA and AFROTC.
A bit about me: I commissioned in 2015 from AFROTC. I applied to USAFA for the class of 2015 and 2016. I got TWE both times. I am currently in the F-16 B Course. Looking back, the TWE is the best thing that ever happened to me (YMMV).
I can't comment on Academy Pro/Con, but for those individuals on the fence, maybe my AFROTC experience can shed some more light on the issue.
AFROTC Pro's:
1. You get to the same place
-This is something I think so many applicants do not understand. Once you get your commission and get to your first Active Duty base, no one cares if you were USAFA/AFROTC/OTS. They care if you can do your job and if you are a good dude. Once those butter bars are pinned on, everyone is equal. You are not deemed inferior because of your commissioning source. The goal is the commission, not the road to get there. Additionally, if your goal is to be a pilot, I never saw an individual in AFROTC who put in the work required not get one. YMMV.
2. Self-Motivation
- This was one of the biggest strengths of AFROTC in my opinion. No one is yelling at you to wake up at 0400 for LLAB, no one is forcing you to go to the gym, no one is forcing you to go to class, no one is forcing you to study. You have to motivate yourself to put in the work when no one is holding you accountable. I had to make my own schedule and stick to it, and I believe this forces you to grow as a person in a way unique to AFROTC. Personally, I credit this factor with my performance in UPT. After a 12 hour day, no one is forcing you to hit the gym for an hour and study the rest of the night. For me, it helped having 4 years of self-motivation under my belt to press through the long year.
3. Experiances
- USAFA gives you unique opportunities, I am not discounting that. However no one talks about the experiences you get going to a normal college. I am not talking about partying and bar hopping (which aren't bad experiences, everything in moderation and legally). During a normal week I got to travel the coast, getting in early morning surf sessions before class and a sunset session afterwards. We would go jet skiing in the local bay on random afternoons. During the weekends you could do anything from go snowboarding up in the mountains, fly ultralights off the coastal cliffs, go windsurfing when the waves sucked, do road trips and travel the state without any real restrictions, literally anything you can think of. The freedom a traditional college entails gives you time to fill with once in a lifetime experiences. My life is owned by the Air Force for the next 10 years, I would not trade those 4 years of freedom for anything.
AFROTC Con's:
1. You aren't locked in to commissioning until after Sophomore year
-This is probably the biggest con. The big cut off is selection for summer field training which happens between Sophomore/Junior year. After you get selected, you are going to commission unless you shoot yourself in the foot with grades/legal problems/PT fails. Even cadets who put in the minimum effort required get a slot. However until that selection, there is still uncertainty.
2. Lack of funding for extra programs
-While this is making a comeback, AFROTC cadets don't get the extra programs that USAFA cadets have. Freefall, powered flight, gliders, ect. are opportunities unique to USAFA.
3. Distractions
-This is the biggest downfall of cadets in AFROTC. While the lack of structure is beneficial for many cadets, it can really hurt those individuals who prefer a structured learning environment. Grades are the first thing to suffer when a cadet gets distracted by all the other time consuming activities a college has. My detachment started out with around 120 cadets for the class of 2015. We commissioned 25. Most individuals dropped out on their own after deciding it wasn't for them. For those who were forced out though, grades was the most common reason.
For the record, nothing I am saying here should be misconstrued as a jab at USAFA. Some of my best friends went there. I simply am trying to illustrate how AFROTC is not just a "backup option", but a completely equal commissioning source with unique inherent strengths. At the end of the day, the best commissioning source depends on the individual.
A bit about me: I commissioned in 2015 from AFROTC. I applied to USAFA for the class of 2015 and 2016. I got TWE both times. I am currently in the F-16 B Course. Looking back, the TWE is the best thing that ever happened to me (YMMV).
I can't comment on Academy Pro/Con, but for those individuals on the fence, maybe my AFROTC experience can shed some more light on the issue.
AFROTC Pro's:
1. You get to the same place
-This is something I think so many applicants do not understand. Once you get your commission and get to your first Active Duty base, no one cares if you were USAFA/AFROTC/OTS. They care if you can do your job and if you are a good dude. Once those butter bars are pinned on, everyone is equal. You are not deemed inferior because of your commissioning source. The goal is the commission, not the road to get there. Additionally, if your goal is to be a pilot, I never saw an individual in AFROTC who put in the work required not get one. YMMV.
2. Self-Motivation
- This was one of the biggest strengths of AFROTC in my opinion. No one is yelling at you to wake up at 0400 for LLAB, no one is forcing you to go to the gym, no one is forcing you to go to class, no one is forcing you to study. You have to motivate yourself to put in the work when no one is holding you accountable. I had to make my own schedule and stick to it, and I believe this forces you to grow as a person in a way unique to AFROTC. Personally, I credit this factor with my performance in UPT. After a 12 hour day, no one is forcing you to hit the gym for an hour and study the rest of the night. For me, it helped having 4 years of self-motivation under my belt to press through the long year.
3. Experiances
- USAFA gives you unique opportunities, I am not discounting that. However no one talks about the experiences you get going to a normal college. I am not talking about partying and bar hopping (which aren't bad experiences, everything in moderation and legally). During a normal week I got to travel the coast, getting in early morning surf sessions before class and a sunset session afterwards. We would go jet skiing in the local bay on random afternoons. During the weekends you could do anything from go snowboarding up in the mountains, fly ultralights off the coastal cliffs, go windsurfing when the waves sucked, do road trips and travel the state without any real restrictions, literally anything you can think of. The freedom a traditional college entails gives you time to fill with once in a lifetime experiences. My life is owned by the Air Force for the next 10 years, I would not trade those 4 years of freedom for anything.
AFROTC Con's:
1. You aren't locked in to commissioning until after Sophomore year
-This is probably the biggest con. The big cut off is selection for summer field training which happens between Sophomore/Junior year. After you get selected, you are going to commission unless you shoot yourself in the foot with grades/legal problems/PT fails. Even cadets who put in the minimum effort required get a slot. However until that selection, there is still uncertainty.
2. Lack of funding for extra programs
-While this is making a comeback, AFROTC cadets don't get the extra programs that USAFA cadets have. Freefall, powered flight, gliders, ect. are opportunities unique to USAFA.
3. Distractions
-This is the biggest downfall of cadets in AFROTC. While the lack of structure is beneficial for many cadets, it can really hurt those individuals who prefer a structured learning environment. Grades are the first thing to suffer when a cadet gets distracted by all the other time consuming activities a college has. My detachment started out with around 120 cadets for the class of 2015. We commissioned 25. Most individuals dropped out on their own after deciding it wasn't for them. For those who were forced out though, grades was the most common reason.
For the record, nothing I am saying here should be misconstrued as a jab at USAFA. Some of my best friends went there. I simply am trying to illustrate how AFROTC is not just a "backup option", but a completely equal commissioning source with unique inherent strengths. At the end of the day, the best commissioning source depends on the individual.
pikakemae808
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- Dec 14, 2017
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- 19
Pirona2000
Member
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2017
- Messages
- 22
Thank you! Sounds like you made a great choice.
@400831,
Thank you for the detailed and thoughtful response.
If I may, I have 4 follow up questions:
1. I’ve heard some talk, but I would like to hear from an active duty officer out of AFROTC: is it true that ROTC officers promote slower and find it extremely hard to reach ranks of 0-5 and higher? I was told this is reality because USAFA officers have a huge power complex and make it easier for themselves to dominate the ranks.
This might be WAY off... I don’t know
2. You said you NEVER saw an individual who worked hard and fill all the requirements NOT get a pilot slot? Is it that hard to get a pilot slot out of AFROTC? What is the difficulty level/competition level?
3. What is the difficulty of becoming a UAV pilot out of AFROTC compared to any other job?
4. What is the probability of getting a job out of any commission source in which you fly a desk?
Do many officer in the AF have many jobs that require a ton of desk work, or all desk work for that matter?
I appreciate your response!
Thank you for the detailed and thoughtful response.
If I may, I have 4 follow up questions:
1. I’ve heard some talk, but I would like to hear from an active duty officer out of AFROTC: is it true that ROTC officers promote slower and find it extremely hard to reach ranks of 0-5 and higher? I was told this is reality because USAFA officers have a huge power complex and make it easier for themselves to dominate the ranks.
This might be WAY off... I don’t know
2. You said you NEVER saw an individual who worked hard and fill all the requirements NOT get a pilot slot? Is it that hard to get a pilot slot out of AFROTC? What is the difficulty level/competition level?
3. What is the difficulty of becoming a UAV pilot out of AFROTC compared to any other job?
4. What is the probability of getting a job out of any commission source in which you fly a desk?
Do many officer in the AF have many jobs that require a ton of desk work, or all desk work for that matter?
I appreciate your response!
Please tell us your experience. I am still waiting for an appointment, or rejection, but do have an AFROTC scholarship.
I recently received an appointment to the USAFA c/o '22, however, I have also spent a year at a local college taking part in AFROTC. If there are any candidates out there who are weighing between USAFA and AFROTC or have been denied by USAFA and would like to know more about AFROTC, I would be more than happy to give my insight on the program! Good luck to everyone!
My son recently gor an appointment to the USAFA. He also has a Type 1 AFROTC scholarship. I’d love to hear the pros and cons of each - and your thoughts.
I have enjoyed every moment of my experience with ROTC thus far and am thankful I had it prior to receiving my appointment, and below are benefits I have gathered throughout my first year.
1. Opportunity to really stick out.
Rather than being in a class of ~1000 cadets, my detachment had approximately 40, and my class at the moment has roughly 16. This gives the opportunity to more easily assert yourself in the program and have your abilities on display. The cadre always gave me the analogy "Here, you're a big fish in a small pond. There, it will be the other way around." Sure, this did not stop me, but what they said is very true. You end up in the same place with either route, and being with a smaller group of people increases your chances of sticking out at the top.
2. College Experience
The connotation I bring with this is not the "Drinking and Partying" aspect as many think when they here college, but moreover the opportunity to learn how to prioritize and manage your time wisely. By having a less demanding weekly commitment with ROTC than USAFA, I was able to develop and understand the skills necessary to balance my education, personal fitness, and recreation, without actually being told I needed to. I was able to mature on my own, which I believe brought out a lot of discipline in myself, as there will be many more distractions at a university. However, this discipline transferred to my ROTC responsibilities and made me a better cadet.
3. Initial Commitment
I had not had a member of my family in the military since my great-grandfathers, so the military to me was a whole new world. ROTC gave me the opportunity to see if it was really for me, if I really enjoyed what I was doing and could see myself doing it as a career. All of this was made available, however, without any initial repercussions if I decided It was not my cup of tea. Again, with a less demanding commitment throughout the week, if I did not enjoy it or saw myself in other endeavors after the first semester, there would be no issue of deciding to stop doing the program.
4. Self-Motivation
*See a400831 above*
Pirona2000
Member
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2017
- Messages
- 22
Great feedback! Really enjoyed reading your experience.
@400831,
Thank you for the detailed and thoughtful response.
If I may, I have 4 follow up questions:
1. I’ve heard some talk, but I would like to hear from an active duty officer out of AFROTC: is it true that ROTC officers promote slower and find it extremely hard to reach ranks of 0-5 and higher? I was told this is reality because USAFA officers have a huge power complex and make it easier for themselves to dominate the ranks.
This might be WAY off... I don’t know
2. You said you NEVER saw an individual who worked hard and fill all the requirements NOT get a pilot slot? Is it that hard to get a pilot slot out of AFROTC? What is the difficulty level/competition level?
3. What is the difficulty of becoming a UAV pilot out of AFROTC compared to any other job?
4. What is the probability of getting a job out of any commission source in which you fly a desk?
Do many officer in the AF have many jobs that require a ton of desk work, or all desk work for that matter?
I appreciate your response!
For sure,
1. Difficulty of promotion
-I have never heard this. Maybe this rumor is a hold over from old times. From what I have seen, the commissioning source is not a factor for promotions. Your OPR is the document sent up for promotion and it contains a list of career accomplishments. The school you went to is not on there. In the pilot community I can guarantee this sort of favoritism does not exist. There are a lot of factors for promotion, but how well you execute your mission is far and away one of the most important ones.
2. Getting a pilot slot from AFROTC
-Sorry if this section of my last post was confusing. While English is my first and only language, I still have issues with it. Let me rephrase that statement. The averages scores for pilot selects are posted every year, and while there is some variances, the average scores stay somewhat consistent . For the last years pilot selects, the average scores were: GPA 3.29 / PFA 96.5 / PCSM 52. Those are not hard scores to get. The only 2 factors outside of your control are the commanders ranking and field training ranking, both which are a percentage of your PCSM. The majority of your PCSM is your AFOQT / TBAS score and flight hours. From day one of AFROTC, you know what you need to do in order to get a pilot slot. Take school seriously, work out consistently, study for the AFOQT when it gets closer, and be a good dude around the detachment / at field training. It isn't complicated, you just have to want it enough and put in the effort. If you beat the averages, I give you a 99.69% chance of getting a slot. Control what you can control, and don't worry about the rest.
3. Getting a UAV slot
-RPA (what we call UAV's) is considered a rated position along with Pilot/CSO/ABM. You still have to compete for any rated position, but the scores for RPA are lower then pilot. Here are the scores for the RPA selects from last year: GPA 3.13 / PFA 93.92 / PCSM 30. Refer to the above paragraph about how to obtain these scores.
4. Desk Jobs
- Most jobs in the Air Force are flying a desk. Even for pilots once you get deeper into your career you start flying a desk. If you aren't a rated officer (Pilot / CSO / ABM / RPA) or something in Special Operations, you are gonna be doing a lot of desk work. Thats why the joke is that there are only two real branches of the military, the Navy and the Army. The Air Force is a corporation and the Marines are a cult. You still may have cool opportunities, but if you aren't Rated or SpecOps, the bulk of your work will be done in front of a computer.
Hopefully that answers your questions!
@400831,
Thank you for the detailed and thoughtful response.
If I may, I have 4 follow up questions:
1. I’ve heard some talk, but I would like to hear from an active duty officer out of AFROTC: is it true that ROTC officers promote slower and find it extremely hard to reach ranks of 0-5 and higher? I was told this is reality because USAFA officers have a huge power complex and make it easier for themselves to dominate the ranks.
This might be WAY off... I don’t know
2. You said you NEVER saw an individual who worked hard and fill all the requirements NOT get a pilot slot? Is it that hard to get a pilot slot out of AFROTC? What is the difficulty level/competition level?
3. What is the difficulty of becoming a UAV pilot out of AFROTC compared to any other job?
4. What is the probability of getting a job out of any commission source in which you fly a desk?
Do many officer in the AF have many jobs that require a ton of desk work, or all desk work for that matter?
I appreciate your response!
For sure,
1. Difficulty of promotion
-I have never heard this. Maybe this rumor is a hold over from old times. From what I have seen, the commissioning source is not a factor for promotions. Your OPR is the document sent up for promotion and it contains a list of career accomplishments. The school you went to is not on there. In the pilot community I can guarantee this sort of favoritism does not exist. There are a lot of factors for promotion, but how well you execute your mission is far and away one of the most important ones.
2. Getting a pilot slot from AFROTC
-Sorry if this section of my last post was confusing. While English is my first and only language, I still have issues with it. Let me rephrase that statement. The averages scores for pilot selects are posted every year, and while there is some variances, the average scores stay somewhat consistent . For the last years pilot selects, the average scores were: GPA 3.29 / PFA 96.5 / PCSM 52. Those are not hard scores to get. The only 2 factors outside of your control are the commanders ranking and field training ranking, both which are a percentage of your PCSM. The majority of your PCSM is your AFOQT / TBAS score and flight hours. From day one of AFROTC, you know what you need to do in order to get a pilot slot. Take school seriously, work out consistently, study for the AFOQT when it gets closer, and be a good dude around the detachment / at field training. It isn't complicated, you just have to want it enough and put in the effort. If you beat the averages, I give you a 99.69% chance of getting a slot. Control what you can control, and don't worry about the rest.
3. Getting a UAV slot
-RPA (what we call UAV's) is considered a rated position along with Pilot/CSO/ABM. You still have to compete for any rated position, but the scores for RPA are lower then pilot. Here are the scores for the RPA selects from last year: GPA 3.13 / PFA 93.92 / PCSM 30. Refer to the above paragraph about how to obtain these scores.
4. Desk Jobs
- Most jobs in the Air Force are flying a desk. Even for pilots once you get deeper into your career you start flying a desk. If you aren't a rated officer (Pilot / CSO / ABM / RPA) or something in Special Operations, you are gonna be doing a lot of desk work. Thats why the joke is that there are only two real branches of the military, the Navy and the Army. The Air Force is a corporation and the Marines are a cult. You still may have cool opportunities, but if you aren't Rated or SpecOps, the bulk of your work will be done in front of a computer.
Hopefully that answers your questions!
Thank you very much! I appreciate your response!
I figured I would quickly jump in and give my $.02 since I wish I had more information 6 years ago when I was going through the application process to both USAFA and AFROTC.
A bit about me: I commissioned in 2015 from AFROTC. I applied to USAFA for the class of 2015 and 2016. I got TWE both times. I am currently in the F-16 B Course. Looking back, the TWE is the best thing that ever happened to me (YMMV).
I can't comment on Academy Pro/Con, but for those individuals on the fence, maybe my AFROTC experience can shed some more light on the issue.
AFROTC Pro's:
1. You get to the same place
-This is something I think so many applicants do not understand. Once you get your commission and get to your first Active Duty base, no one cares if you were USAFA/AFROTC/OTS. They care if you can do your job and if you are a good dude. Once those butter bars are pinned on, everyone is equal. You are not deemed inferior because of your commissioning source. The goal is the commission, not the road to get there. Additionally, if your goal is to be a pilot, I never saw an individual in AFROTC who put in the work required not get one. YMMV.
2. Self-Motivation
- This was one of the biggest strengths of AFROTC in my opinion. No one is yelling at you to wake up at 0400 for LLAB, no one is forcing you to go to the gym, no one is forcing you to go to class, no one is forcing you to study. You have to motivate yourself to put in the work when no one is holding you accountable. I had to make my own schedule and stick to it, and I believe this forces you to grow as a person in a way unique to AFROTC. Personally, I credit this factor with my performance in UPT. After a 12 hour day, no one is forcing you to hit the gym for an hour and study the rest of the night. For me, it helped having 4 years of self-motivation under my belt to press through the long year.
3. Experiances
- USAFA gives you unique opportunities, I am not discounting that. However no one talks about the experiences you get going to a normal college. I am not talking about partying and bar hopping (which aren't bad experiences, everything in moderation and legally). During a normal week I got to travel the coast, getting in early morning surf sessions before class and a sunset session afterwards. We would go jet skiing in the local bay on random afternoons. During the weekends you could do anything from go snowboarding up in the mountains, fly ultralights off the coastal cliffs, go windsurfing when the waves sucked, do road trips and travel the state without any real restrictions, literally anything you can think of. The freedom a traditional college entails gives you time to fill with once in a lifetime experiences. My life is owned by the Air Force for the next 10 years, I would not trade those 4 years of freedom for anything.
AFROTC Con's:
1. You aren't locked in to commissioning until after Sophomore year
-This is probably the biggest con. The big cut off is selection for summer field training which happens between Sophomore/Junior year. After you get selected, you are going to commission unless you shoot yourself in the foot with grades/legal problems/PT fails. Even cadets who put in the minimum effort required get a slot. However until that selection, there is still uncertainty.
2. Lack of funding for extra programs
-While this is making a comeback, AFROTC cadets don't get the extra programs that USAFA cadets have. Freefall, powered flight, gliders, ect. are opportunities unique to USAFA.
3. Distractions
-This is the biggest downfall of cadets in AFROTC. While the lack of structure is beneficial for many cadets, it can really hurt those individuals who prefer a structured learning environment. Grades are the first thing to suffer when a cadet gets distracted by all the other time consuming activities a college has. My detachment started out with around 120 cadets for the class of 2015. We commissioned 25. Most individuals dropped out on their own after deciding it wasn't for them. For those who were forced out though, grades was the most common reason.
For the record, nothing I am saying here should be misconstrued as a jab at USAFA. Some of my best friends went there. I simply am trying to illustrate how AFROTC is not just a "backup option", but a completely equal commissioning source with unique inherent strengths. At the end of the day, the best commissioning source depends on the individual.
Thank you. He still hasn't decided - it's hard to say no to USAFA. But the pull of a paid for "normal" college experience is there too.